Harvest reports what's the point?

[nailbender]

I agree with bobcat, but you also have to realize the number of folks who don't report at all (pay the $10) or report inaccuratly. If you think that the WDFW reports are correct, your wrong. Take them for what they are...   

[ICEMAN]

Because they score the extra cash if you forget.

Hate to say it but I agree with you.

[ICEMAN]

Also a big BS for their need for everyone to report.

Last time I took statistics in college we learned how to obtain accurate data with a sampling of statistics from the demographic, not the need for every last person who participated to report their numbers.

Years ago biologists were able to estimate herd size etc...by field exam and a random sampling of hunters, not a complete reporting.

Mandatory reporting is new.

Mandatory reporting is all about making money.

How much do you wanna bet they will raise the penalty fee the next opportunity they get...?

Mandatory reporting is a revenue opportunity.

Mandatory reporting is also a way for biologists and the department to blame somebody else for whatever happens to the herd size... "oh, the hunters must have falsely reported...this is why we have to ____________ (insert your worst fear...)... 

Mandatory reporting relieves the game managers from accountability.

[bigtex]

Turning in your harvest report to WDFW so that you can screw them out of ten bucks 

Not many people know this but it is a criminal offense to not submit a harvest report. WDFW prefers to go the $10 penalty route so that way the funds go to WDFW, whereas if they were to criminally cite everyone the criminal fee would either go to the general fund or the county depending on which county the citation was in.

[ICEMAN]

Turning in your harvest report to WDFW so that you can screw them out of ten bucks 

Not many people know this but it is a criminal offense to not submit a harvest report. WDFW prefers to go the $10 penalty route so that way the funds go to WDFW, whereas if they were to criminally cite everyone the criminal fee would either go to the general fund or the county depending on which county the citation was in.

That sure doesn't help the arguement that it is not about the money.....

[bobcat]

Also a big BS for their need for everyone to report.

Last time I took statistics in college we learned how to obtain accurate data with a sampling of statistics from the demographic, not the need for every last person who participated to report their numbers.

Years ago biologists were able to estimate herd size etc...by field exam and a random sampling of hunters, not a complete reporting.

Mandatory reporting is new.

Mandatory reporting is all about making money.

How much do you wanna bet they will raise the penalty fee the next opportunity they get...?

Mandatory reporting is a revenue opportunity.

Mandatory reporting is also a way for biologists and the department to blame somebody else for whatever happens to the herd size... "oh, the hunters must have falsely reported...this is why we have to ____________ (insert your worst fear...)... 

Mandatory reporting relieves the game managers from accountability.

With all due respect, your whole post is BS Iceman! Sure they could get by with only a small percentage of hunters doing the reports and then extrapolating data from that. But why should they? Online reporting couldn't be simpler. There's no reason why every single person who purchases a deer or elk tag cannot report their hunting activity, so the biologists can have the best possible information. Really, what is so hard about doing the online report?

[ICEMAN]

What is so hard about doing it is that NOBODY knows how accurate it is, and I am doing their job for them. If I fail, I get fined.  Want more reasons?

[bigtex]

Turning in your harvest report to WDFW so that you can screw them out of ten bucks 

Not many people know this but it is a criminal offense to not submit a harvest report. WDFW prefers to go the $10 penalty route so that way the funds go to WDFW, whereas if they were to criminally cite everyone the criminal fee would either go to the general fund or the county depending on which county the citation was in.

That sure doesn't help the arguement that it is not about the money.....

Well you could either pay the $10 fine. Or face the $109 misdemeanor bail forfeiture in your local county district court which is the penalty everybody would face if WDFW decided to criminally cite everyone who fails to report. Instead they go the $10 fine. You make the decision which is harsher.

[Special T]

Ice You are Spot on... I too have experience in statistics and sampling, and couldn't have said it any better.   Quality of data is more important than quantity...

Bobcat i have ready MANY posts regarding hunters putting in false info into the reporting system. I believe you have even posted in those topics... I think mandatory reporting would help under perfect conditions, however NOTHING works out exactly as planned... Especially since the WDFW has such a large number of dedicated supporters. 

[ICEMAN]

Bigtex, good point.

Here is the question though. Why fine or charge unreporting anyway? Do the numbers they glean from the reporting actually truly help the managers "manage" game populations? Are game numbers reported this fall really truly altering how they manage next years hunt?  I would have expected managers to have a bigger plan than this yearly reporting. They should be able to manage on a long range plan, and not be quick to fine somebody for that immediate answer they do not need.

Don't wildlife managers already estimate the number of game animals poached or killed by vehicles, or tribal take (reported and not...). 

Are we going to start citing drivers who do not report striking a deer with their car?

Wildlife managers are paid to do what? Wait for hunters to report what they "said happened", and then blindly manage game populations based upon these numbers? This is not what they studied for all those years in college. Let's throw away all our education and place all of our career decisions based upon what alot of pissed off hunters report....yeah! Yeah, this is how we will manage game populations!

I bet wildlife already has a "false reporting" average built into their number gathering. They already suspect that a whole lot of the reports are false, and therefore are pushing this mandatory reporting issue as revenue source plain and simple.

Yes, these are only my BS observations and assumptions. So be it, this is how I see it.

[bobcat]

It's pretty sad that many hunters complain about WDFW's management of wildlife, yet are not willing to do their part by submitting accurate hunt reports, or they do but complain about having to do it. I do have faith in most hunters though and I feel that 90% do provide accurate reports.

[bigtex]

It's pretty sad that many hunters complain about WDFW's management of wildlife, yet are not willing to do their part by submitting accurate hunt reports, or they do but complain about having to do it. I do have faith in most hunters though and I feel that 90% do provide accurate reports.

Because god forbid you take the 1 minute it takes to fill out the report.

[ICEMAN]

It's pretty sad that many hunters complain about WDFW's management of wildlife, yet are not willing to do their part by submitting accurate hunt reports, or they do but complain about having to do it. I do have faith in most hunters though and I feel that 90% do provide accurate reports.

Because god forbid you take the 1 minute it takes to fill out the report.

I feel it has alot to do with trust. Lets survey "trust". Do hunter trust that wildlife will make the proper decisions to manage game populations for the hunters best interest? Or do hunters feel that wildlife will make decisions irregardless of the hunters...

When you factor in  things like the whole Wolf introduction scenario, wildlifes' apparent attitude with hunters (unreturned gun when volunteered for examination on other thread), non-related items like the new Discorver pass....,things like these...you are not going to get the majority of hunters to feel like wildlife is looking out for their needs. Ask around, I have. Alot of folks I personally know do not feel that wildlife is looking out for the hunters best interest, but rather the contrary. 

[bigtex]

It's pretty sad that many hunters complain about WDFW's management of wildlife, yet are not willing to do their part by submitting accurate hunt reports, or they do but complain about having to do it. I do have faith in most hunters though and I feel that 90% do provide accurate reports.

Because god forbid you take the 1 minute it takes to fill out the report.

Alot of folks I personally know do not feel that wildlife is looking out for the hunters best interest, but rather the contrary.

WDFW is there preserve and protect natural resources. Their goal is not to provide 100% success rates. People seem to think that WDFW is there so people can go out and be successful in hunting/fishing, that is not the point. Look at the WDFW mission:

To preserve, protect and perpetuate fish, wildlife and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities.

Essentially, science is first while providing a recreational and commercial opportunity is after that.

The same goes for DNR. People think DNR is there to provide recreational access. That is false. DNR is there to bring the state money in terms of logging, it just so happens that recreation can take place on many of their owned lands. This is why DNR has much more landlocked lands then WDFW or the feds. For DNR it is logging/money first, and then providing a recreational access.

[Jack Diamond]

well, glad this thread came up, reminded me to do the report, which I just finished, took 45 seconds.
I do not know why someone would submit a false report, but I suppose there are some who would, just cannot fathom the reasoning behind it.
 The Game dept indeed has problems, I just do not see the report as a big issue. I can certainly think of more important fish to fry.