Harvest reports what's the point?

[Special T]

It also doesn't have to be as deliberate as you might think... Its The end of the year and they ask what GMU's you hunted and how many days, did you remember to include days that you were driving though the woods with your rifle? If you saw a buck cross the road onto timber land you could go chase it... If you are deer hunting archery, you are also hunting for bear elk cougar and anything else that is in season... Grouse.. Good surveys, good timing and the right people answering give you good insight.  Asking the same questions different ways will get you different  results.  The general public doesn't always know what you are trying to get at..

Trust does have a lot to do with answers, and not the SCREW the WDFW attitude. Answers can be skewed by who asks them... There is a HOT gal that worked at the sports place near me... How many guys would tell her that the didn't kill very many birds but spent lots of time in the field...
 When they ask how many ducks geese coots doves you shot last year it is often 9 months later. I don't buy my next years license right after my current one expires. They just give you the bracketed info/guesstimate... Not very accurate or valuable as far as planning goes...

[ICEMAN]

It's pretty sad that many hunters complain about WDFW's management of wildlife, yet are not willing to do their part by submitting accurate hunt reports, or they do but complain about having to do it. I do have faith in most hunters though and I feel that 90% do provide accurate reports.

Because god forbid you take the 1 minute it takes to fill out the report.

Alot of folks I personally know do not feel that wildlife is looking out for the hunters best interest, but rather the contrary.

WDFW is there preserve and protect natural resources. Their goal is not to provide 100% success rates. People seem to think that WDFW is there so people can go out and be successful in hunting/fishing, that is not the point. Look at the WDFW mission:

To preserve, protect and perpetuate fish, wildlife and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities.

Essentially, science is first while providing a recreational and commercial opportunity is after that.

The same goes for DNR. People think DNR is there to provide recreational access. That is false. DNR is there to bring the state money in terms of logging, it just so happens that recreation can take place on many of their owned lands. This is why DNR has much more landlocked lands then WDFW or the feds. For DNR it is logging/money first, and then providing a recreational access.

I would hope that most hunters know this, that wildlife is not there to provide 100% success rates.

Personally, I feel that they are really conflicted.  Wildlife is trying to manage herds size, trying to work with all the federal mandates  like working wolves into the equation, and trying to bring money into the state coffers thru license and permit sales, plus fines.

Hence my comment; hunters I know do not feel that wildlife is their friend anymore. Not working for the hunter, just for the hunters money. This is what I meant. That said, this is one reason why I believe folks may not care to fill out the surveys.

? If I report another deer shot, will wildlife consider even less hunting opportunity for me in this area in the future? Could this be a legitimate concern of hunters? If a hunter does not feel that wildlife is attempting to help game herd size to increase in an area they hunt, would they feel that reporting their harvest to be detrimental to their future hunting prospects? How could a hunter feel all warm and fuzzy about cooperating with wildlife when they feel that wildlife is ushering in wolves which can devastate game populations and reduce hunting opportunity?  I argue that these are a few of the reasons why hunters may not feel obliged to cooperate fully with reporting, not that the report only takes a few minutes, but that the information reported is disregarded or possibly used to limit hunting.

[bobcat]

Iceman,

If you report a deer killed in a particular unit, and many other people do the same, I would think, if anything, opportunity in that unit would be increased, not decreased, because a higher success rate indicates the unit is doing well. But either way it's ridiculous to try to speculate as to what will happen as a result of whether a person does or does not provide accurate information. Leave it up to the biologists to do what they will with the data. This is why biologists went to college and got a degree in wildlife management and took statistics courses. It's not up to us to second guess them and wonder if they really need the reports are not. Just do your part, and hope they do theirs.

[ICEMAN]

Sorry, but I second guess everything they do. I do not see improving big game numbers anywhere in the state where I have hunted, and this is after years of their game management strategies in full force. Continued issuing of doe and cow tags in areas where IMHO they should issue none.

You yourself constantly suggest different game management strategies that you feel would benefit hunters and game populations. Are you second guessing them?

I do not and will not place blind faith in them anymore. I am not alone.

[bobcat]

Sorry, but I second guess everything they do. I do not see improving big game numbers anywhere in the state where I have hunted, and this is after years of their game management strategies in full force. Continued issuing of doe and cow tags in areas where IMHO they should issue none.

You yourself constantly suggest different game management strategies that you feel would benefit hunters and game populations. Are you second guessing them?

I do not and will not place blind faith in them anymore. I am not alone.

I don't disagree with any of that, but man, how hard is it to provide the data the biologists need to properly manage our wildlife? Then if they DO NOT properly manage wildlife, we can blame them, instead of ourselves, since we did our part. Again, how hard is it to go online and submit a report? As Jack Diamond just posted, it took all of 45 seconds to do.....

[buckfvr]

Well, when a regional biologist drives around and counts deer in fields, and never steps foot in the woods, and wont take input from wardens or hunters or locals, and then sits down and concoctts a deer count,  I think at this point its ludicrous to continue support for WDFW .....let them finish running it into the ground themselves.

Im tired of being fed a line of BS everytime they spew from their mouths......liars, top to bottom......

[huntnnw]

I sure hope they dont base anything off those reports...I know alot of people who put 0 year after year..why in the hell would u tell fish and game if you harvested a bull year after year in the same unit..next thing u know your seasons are cut short etc

[colockumelk]

Not all of them are liars.  I know a few wildlife biologists and they try their hardest and do a really good job.  All they can do is tell the WDFW Commission what they think should happen and hope that the commission listens.  Unfortunately alot of times they don't.  I've seen it happen in front of my eyes.  A good example is the Region 3 wildlife biologist.  His job is really tough.  I think he does a really good job and as far as harvest reports and status reports and research papers goes he is second to none.  On top of that he's a great guy as well.  Unfortunately for him the Commission doesn't apparantly listen to him and then we all blame him for the direction the Deer and elk herd has taken in Yakima and Ellensburg. 

Put yourself in his shoes.  He is trying to manage an area for elk and deer hunting.  This area has probably more elk hunters than any where else in the state with less escapment than most places.  The local Indian tribe goes up in there and kills as many elk as they want and has refused to work with him at all let alone provide harvest reports.  (Most other bios are lucky enough to have tribes that work with them)  Since there is alot of big bulls poaching has also risen.  And now he has the Muckleshoots that come over and shoot as many as they want as well.  So he has to somehow manage an elk season and keep the herds sustainable enough where there can still be a general season.  All the while he has two separate user groups (Yakamas and Muckleshoots) banging away at bulls without giving any harvest data.

As far as deer goes he has had to deal with hair loss disease which has completely wreaked havoc on the local deer herds.  50% have died since 2003 due to this disease.  Plus just like the elk he has two user groups (Muckleshoots and the Yakamas) just banging away at the bucks in their winter grounds and not reporting their harvest.  Its sickening really, and pathetic.  I guarantee you that these two user groups although are probably only maybe 10-20% of the number of non-tribal hunters kill more bucks than we do.  All the while any type of predator managment is also off the table for him.  Because the WDFW commission is somehow trying to make the state of WA a predator sanctuary. 

But who gets blamed for the downward trend of the Yakima and Kittitas county's deer and elk herds?  The WDFW and this bio. 

I have been told by a couple of members on this website that the reason the Yakamas wont cooperate and the reason they absolutely refuse to submit harvest reports is because they are worried that then the truth will be known about just how much they really kill in the Yakima and Kittitas counties.

[coachcw]

So my whole point of starting this post was to Raise awareness of the bs and bad data Biologist get from hunter reports . The bottom line is the spring count right , What survived through the winter period . We can all argue that , poachers , tribal , predators and hunters contribute to this . They smplly need a accurate number , If that was known then they could set the season and permits for the following year . We all know that in the Yakima and  Kittatas Valley that deer numbers are down . They took antlerless tags away from archers and modern fire arm sportsman to help build the herd back up. Im so dissgusted with what I saw this weekend in a area that two years ago could have counted deer all day long . This is a area that only a few late archery permits are in during december . It looked like a convoy of tribal hunters , they shot animals with no disscretion . It made me wonder what the hell i'm hunting for , I passed up a few legal bucks with hopes that they could grow up into a qauility buck ( maybe I need to rethink that one). The management plan That I see in place bassiclly isnt one whats the point inless all is taken into conciederation . I can say that tribal sucess rates are over 100% meaning each hunter shots more than one animal . The only way I see any deer and elk rebound is to shut down the roads and close the woods come November even if that means giving up late seasons if not we are doomed . As far as the comment that road hunting isn't very Efective BS this time of year it's very effective if you are willing to shoot any thing that walks !

[HornHoarder]

I sure hope they dont base anything off those reports...I know alot of people who put 0 year after year..why in the hell would u tell fish and game if you harvested a bull year after year in the same unit..next thing u know your seasons are cut short etc

Another good reason not to report accurately is because the info becomes public information, and can draw attention to your honeyhole. That is exactly what happened at my elk hunting spot this year. A new group of guys were camping exactly where we have camped the last several years. When we asked how they ended up here they said  the harvest reports suggested it was a good spot.

[rasbo]

I report all my stuff when I get something.And no false locations..well except exact roads,but area wise always truthful.I dont believe holding info will do any good.

[CedarPants]

I report all my stuff when I get something.And no false locations..well except exact roads,but area wise always truthful.I dont believe holding info will do any good.

Agreed.

We seem to collectively complain a lot about WDFW's mismanagement of game.   Here's a scenerio:
    - We finally decide enough is a enough and as a group we take a stand.  We voice our concerns in a well designed letter, so well designed that WDFW agrees to meet with us.  We meet, and the first question they ask is "ok, we'd like to thank you guys for providing your hunter reports, they are honestly one of our best tools.  How do you think we can improve upon them?"   And we answer "hunter reports?  Screw that, we don't trust you so we've been falsifying them all along"

The meeting promptly adjourns, and we are from that day forward viewed as part of the problem, not the solution

[coachcw]

So if the only data on harvest they have is by licenced sportsman , the only way to increase numbers is to take hunts away from licenced hunters , Thats BS ! Letsnot deal with the real issue here righht.

[Coastal_native]

The fact that this thread is even happening makes me believe that this state is in worse shape then I thought.   

[colockumelk]

Coach you want to see a abomination of fair chase?  Go take a drive up Bald Mt. Road right now.  And you are correct road hunting that area is extremely effective.  Me and my family used to drive up Mud Lake road and look at all the wintering deer and elk.  It used to be a good time.  I looked forward to it every year.  Well then a certain group started hammering it pretty hard.  Then the WDFW put a gate in there (which I support) to protect the wintering deer and elk.  So we started driving up Bald Mountain road.  We would see the same thing.  Lots of blood trails off the road.  Even though my family wouldn't be able to drive up there and look at the wintering bucks and bulls like we used to I wish they would pute a gate on Bald Mountain Road.  I wish they would gate the Wenas Side to.  Because as I see it this is the ONLY way to protect these wintering bucks and bulls in there, from a certain user group.  Gates, gates, and more gates.  I try and be patient but then you witness this stuff and see two guys with two bucks in the back of their truck.  Then you see them the next weekend and they have 2 or 3 more.  And you are   My brothers buddy drew the late muzzle loader Bald Mountain tag.  He went with to video.  All day long on both days all they heard was gun shots.  And yes he can tell the difference between someone target practising and someone driving around shooting bucks and bulls. 

Now that the Muckleshoots can legally hunt in there the problem just doubled.  Although at least the Muckleshoots share harvest data.  And before someone says "yeah well how accurate are they?  Probably as accurate as ours is.     "