Protest WDFW Wolf Plan in Olympia

[jackmaster]

someone brought this up on a thread and actually had scietific numbers to back it up , but i will be damned if i can remember where, but the short of it is that either in alaska or canada, might even be idahoe or montana, but anyways they said that with the present wolf population in one of those places i forget the % but it was a huge number that almost 0 moose calves and elk calves were surviving do to the fact that they were being taken by wolves, if someone has a way to blow up pictures of a wolf killing a baby calf elk or calf moose, then make them up and put it on some signs for us to pack around, keep track of how much they cost to make and we can pay for them at the gathering, A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS

[Woodchuck]

If research and numbers are a question, where is Colockumelk? That guy is awesome with that stuff.

[pianoman9701]

If research and numbers are a question, where is Colockumelk? That guy is awesome with that stuff.

"Throughout the 1970s and ’80s, the Bitterroot Valley averaged roughly 40 to 60 calves per 100 cows and 30 per 100 in the 1990s. The 2009 and 2010 spring surveys revealed calf:cow ratios of only 14:100 and 16:100, respectively."

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2011/BitterrootElkStudy.htm
 

[pianoman9701]

This reflects the decline of calving due to stress on the elk by wolves. Read the entire article i left the link to.

[Hi-Liter]

I have read some of the issues here. And there are some good points and concerns. And I commend Pianoman for starting the thread. 

But, to really be affective (cattlerancher association, rocky mtn elk etc.) will have to file decalatory relief action/lawsuit against the federal gov't in federal court to get their attention. Thats about the only way this would be possible and to get the wolf issue in front of the court and would get some attention.

Just look at the Heller case that was file in federal court, which the supreme ct. heard de novo and ruled in favor of the Heller which clarified the gun rights of individuals.

[pianoman9701]

Our population is 7 times that of MT and we have roughly half the land area. That gives us a human population density of 14 times that of MT, yet our wolf recovery plan is more aggressive. This is bizarre when you realize theirs has had devastating results to their ungulates, sporting-related business (like guides, sporting goods, etc), and ranchers. Apparently our WDFW completely ignored the lessons fo ID, MT, and WY when pushing this plan through. After months of testimony and thousands of witnesses, the plan remained largely unchanged from it's original draft last May. How is that possible unless they just refused to listen?

[pianoman9701]

I wrote to RMEF and suggested we use the ESA to protect the woodland caribou. Got no response, no interest.

As far as what we have to do is concerned, we have to start making noise and this protest is the way to go about it. Lawsuits can happen, and motions can be filed, but a grassroots effort that garners the attention of our population will make people sit up and take notice. When it's time to vote for governor next year, this issue will be important. The last election was very close. Something like this can change an election and allow us to put a governor in power who will make changes to the WDFW.

[Hi-Liter]

That is what I mean a grass roots org. to spend time and money in court. The problem is there is little pushback from the hunters because it will use up hunters time an money trying to defeat the issue. I am not trying to say that the protest shouldn't happen, it should.

I was just suggesting that legal action should be looked into, it will cost money and time. But, in the end that is likely the only way to have the wolf issue/case resolved or at least monitored.

RMEF as I pointed may not be concerned as you pointed out on the woodland caribou, because this is a federal issue dealing with the states. However, it maybe what the states want (wolf intro./management) because they recieve federal funding. 

It will be a tough battle to change the WDFW, but keep it going.

[pianoman9701]

I have read some of the issues here. And there are some good points and concerns. And I commend Pianoman for starting the thread. 

But, to really be affective (cattlerancher association, rocky mtn elk etc.) will have to file decalatory relief action/lawsuit against the federal gov't in federal court to get their attention. Thats about the only way this would be possible and to get the wolf issue in front of the court and would get some attention.

Just look at the Heller case that was file in federal court, which the supreme ct. heard de novo and ruled in favor of the Heller which clarified the gun rights of individuals.

That's not the point of this thread, all due respects Hi-Liter. We're organizing a protest, period. Other things may grow out of this eventually, but this is a bout a protest. We want to make a lot of noise very publicly about what has happened here.

[pianoman9701]

Off to work with Braxton on his shooting. I'll be back later tonight for more discussion.

[firefighter4607]

Do we have anyone who owns a print shop who'd give us a break on flyers and/or posters?

backwoods_boy is doing printing of shirts, stickers, and other things you should PM him and ask.

Also, someone suggested we get the cattelmen involved. I think that's a good idea. Anyone else? Who can get in touch with them, please?

The vice president was just talking about the wolf issue in their news letter. He has talked to Phili Anderson and the Hunter's Heritage Council. He is very disappointed about the vote. Page 2 http://washingtoncattlemen.org/KetchPen/Decemberpg24%202011b.pdf
There main Office is in Ellensburg. http://washingtoncattlemen.org/contactus.htm

I will help in any way possible just let me know by PM also I am alright part of WFW.

[blackhorn]

Maybe someone can educate me here. How have the anti's and pro wolfe types influenced the government so much?  What are they doing specificaly?  I understand us protesting, but what will it take on all fronts to get our voices heard? Do we have lobyists or what not influencing government? Or are we just alone out there paying license fees without a say in what the WDFW does with our money?  Pardon my ignorance on the subject but would really like to know.

[pianoman9701]

Maybe someone can educate me here. How have the anti's and pro wolfe types influenced the government so much?  What are they doing specificaly?  I understand us protesting, but what will it take on all fronts to get our voices heard? Do we have lobyists or what not influencing government? Or are we just alone out there paying license fees without a say in what the WDFW does with our money?  Pardon my ignorance on the subject but would really like to know.

The antis have huge money behind them and take advantage of tax payer dollars to sue our own government. This is the HSUS and Defenders of Wildlife with massive budgets and an agenda to end hunting.

We don't have lobbyists, other than RMEF and NRA. The strength will be in a large turnout during an election year to let the politicians know what's important to a great many thousands of hunters in this state. The last election was decided by 130 votes. This is to be a scream that voters will hear. Gregoire is out next year and the new governor will have the power to re-shape the WDFW and commission. If enough of us are involved in this, people will notice. I also think this could make WFW and Hunt WA a more powerful force in hunting politics and policy.

[Gringo31]

I feel very strongly that this is EXACTLY what WFW should be used for.  If nothing else the wolf committee.  It puts a name behind the masses.  It has other groups like Idaho for Wildlife that would be an asset as well.  There is a lot of good discussion here but some of it may be better in a less public forum, yet, I understand it would be easy to infiltrate.  One voice, one concern (at a time )

I know some folks on the Cattlemens Assoc and when we get a clearer plan, let me know what I can do to reach out to them.

[pianoman9701]

I feel very strongly that this is EXACTLY what WFW should be used for.  If nothing else the wolf committee.  It puts a name behind the masses.  It has other groups like Idaho for Wildlife that would be an asset as well.  There is a lot of good discussion here but some of it may be better in a less public forum, yet, I understand it would be easy to infiltrate.  One voice, one concern (at a time )

I know some folks on the Cattlemens Assoc and when we get a clearer plan, let me know what I can do to reach out to them.

Point about planning in the public forum taken. I'll certainly reach out to you, Gringo when we have things lining up. Thank you.