Lumenok Poll Results

[UptheCreek]

Don't see that many argueing it is a must have but rather having the option to use it.  There is a difference.  It is nice to have options.

[Gobble Gobble]

I wonder just how much poaching goes on today at night spotlighting game and shooting it with a bow equipped with a light on the sight pins and a Lumenok on the arrow. Who needs competition during hunting hours when you can hunt at night when everyone else has gone home and the deer are out feeding, add a full moon and its meat in the freezer.

My  let people use Lumenok, it doesn't help to kill the anything... now a light on the sight I would say NO.

[Snapshot]

Dadgumit, H-n-phoo, I've written it before

 LOL, at least I know you are paying attention now.

 Whats said between two guys having a chat is far from WDFW giving us as hunters a ultimatum. They have NEVER cut seasons or publically suggested that they would, in lieu of improved gear. If they were concerned about lumenoks being the final straw then don't you think they would have worded the poll a little different. "Should lumenoks be allowed in Lieu of a shorter season" type of question?

 Lets face it, the majority the trad guys are not using "trad" gear but rather improved trad gear, ie; broadheads, modern laminates, modern strings etc. I'd be willing to bet that the majority use range finders at some point too.

 What I'm getting at is all the user groups have seen improvements of our gear over the years, I hardly think a "pro active" lumenok is going to be the "determining factor".

I wasn't "having a chat" with Commissioner Perry. He asked those questions in follow-up to testimony I had just given before the Commission. As for the wording of the survey question, the Commission had nothing to do with that; the survey was the work of the Department. They are two different entities.

I don't know a single traditional archery hunter who carries a rangefinder around. THAT would be a dirty little secret, eh? 

As soon as one electric device is allowed then the door is open to the others that are already being manufactured, as well as those that have yet to even be invented. All of them aim to accomplish one thing: to make it easier. Bowhunting seasons were made longer than rifle seasons because bowhunting was not easy. As it gets easier bowhunters are becoming more effective at killing and so the seasons will have to be shorter to keep us within our harvest quotas. It is that simple.

[Machias]

yes it has,  i just finished a book about it called.... tracking dogs for finding WOUNDED GAME by: John Jeanneney a very good book and educational but you think lighted nocks is a issue, we just drought it up at the game com. meeting in chewelah last week and there will have to be a lot of education and willingness to ever even get it looked at.
John Jeanneney is more than willing to help any one out that wants to undertake this adventure but our state wont even allow hounds in the woods any more??

Tracking Dogs are already legal in WA. 

[JLS]

Don't see that many argueing it is a must have but rather having the option to use it.  There is a difference.  It is nice to have options.

And it's also nice to have well defined parameters.  I think electronics on archery equipment goes beyond what archery parameters should be.

[Snapshot]

yes it has,  i just finished a book about it called.... tracking dogs for finding WOUNDED GAME by: John Jeanneney a very good book and educational but you think lighted nocks is a issue, we just drought it up at the game com. meeting in chewelah last week and there will have to be a lot of education and willingness to ever even get it looked at.
John Jeanneney is more than willing to help any one out that wants to undertake this adventure but our state wont even allow hounds in the woods any more??

If hunters REALLY want to do something about finding lost animals (rather than thirty dollar arrows) then this is the avenue for a change that will help everyone.

Machias has pointed out time and time again that walking a leashed dog in the woods isn't illegal so long as the guy doesn't have a hunting weapon on him, and if it happens to lead a guy to his dead deer...well, then that is great. But I have posed that hypothetical to the Big Game Manager at WDFW and he tells me he wouldn't suggest I try to get away with it. Our regulations say clearly that we can't have a dog with us "while hunting". I think that is enough of a deterrent that most people wouldn't even think to try a trailing dog.

There are national organizations dedicated to trailing dog use for finding wounded game. Specifically allowing them by regulation would be a true conservation measure. And the blueprint for accomplishing it already exists because more and more states have been asked by its' citizens to write it into their regulations that a properly controlled dog can be used to find a lost animal. In some states there are outdoorsmen with trained trailing dogs who publicly offer their service in helping recover lost game. Some do it simply because they love working with their dogs; others may charge a fee, I don't know.

The commission has been told that (bow)hunters need a recovery tool. Trailing dogs is something that could be won because there are numerous studies that have proven they are effective in finding lost game. Proof that electric nocks help find lost game is something that could not be provided when the commission asked for evidence to support the claim that they would.

[Machias]

Respectfully wrong, I'm not suggesting that you "happen" to find a deer.  I am saying it is NOT illegal to use tracking dogs.  Heck I even suggest your dog wear a tracking vest.  Tracking dogs are PERFECT for outfitters to follow up and find wounded game for clients.  There is NOTHING shady or sneeky about using a tracking dog to find downed game.  If something is not outlawed then it is legal, always has been that way in WA. If you do NOT unsnap the leash and you are not armed you CANNOT be charged with using dogs illegally.  You don't have to do it half heartedly, you don't have to do it like "oh I'm not using this dog to find a downed deer, OH look what I stumbled on".  It's perfectly legal.  Someone, ANYONE prove me wrong!

[Snapshot]

Forgive me for the clumsy choice of words...the gist of "happening upon it" was a weak attempt at humor.

If you were to call Enforcement Chief Bjork and ask him what his interpretation is regarding using a dog to locate a lost animal I believe you'd find his understanding of it to be different than yours. I know that Game Department Manager Ware feels that the practice is prohibited because I asked him directly. I believe he hangs his hat on the rule that contains the words "Allowing a dog...controlled by you...to accompany you while you are hunting...is prohibited." I would love to be proved wrong, too.

I think they'd hang my butt if I, while unarmed, were to be caught using my leashed pooch to trail a deer and claim that I "wasn't hunting" at the time because I didn't have a weapon on me. I certainly don't want to test those waters.

It would be so danged easy to write into the regulations, "The used of a single trailing dog is permitted for the purpose of finding a wounded animal so long as the dog is on a leash in-hand and the controller does not possess a hunting weapon."

[huntnphool]

As soon as one electric device is allowed then the door is open to the others that are already being manufactured, as well as those that have yet to even

Purely speculation on your part, without a fraction of fact.

[wrongway]

[Purely speculation on your part, without a fraction of factote] yes you are right speculation but more power for when one item is allowed people will use this to try to get some othe device allowes as well. You know that people will do this.

[Archeryoutfitters]

yes it has,  i just finished a book about it called.... tracking dogs for finding WOUNDED GAME by: John Jeanneney a very good book and educational but you think lighted nocks is a issue, we just drought it up at the game com. meeting in chewelah last week and there will have to be a lot of education and willingness to ever even get it looked at.
John Jeanneney is more than willing to help any one out that wants to undertake this adventure but our state wont even allow hounds in the woods any more??

Tracking Dogs are already legal in WA.

Are you sure of this, i guess i don't know,we asked about it at the last meeting here last week and they didn't even address it Thanks for the info.  going to do some looking now Brian

[Archeryoutfitters]

yes it has,  i just finished a book about it called.... tracking dogs for finding WOUNDED GAME by: John Jeanneney a very good book and educational but you think lighted nocks is a issue, we just drought it up at the game com. meeting in chewelah last week and there will have to be a lot of education and willingness to ever even get it looked at.
John Jeanneney is more than willing to help any one out that wants to undertake this adventure but our state wont even allow hounds in the woods any more??

Tracking Dogs are already legal in WA.

Are you sure of this, i guess i don't know,we asked about it at the last meeting here last week and they didn't even address it Thanks for the info.  going to do some looking now Brian

As of 2010 tracking dogs were not legal  in Washington state according to this web site.      http://www.skinnymoose.com/moosedroppings/2010/04/28/time-to-make-blood-tracking-with-dogs-legal-during-all-big-game-seasons/           but it is in the majority  of the US states there is only 16 states in the US that it is not allowed on any level and guess what Washington is one of them, would really of been nice if it was.     

[Archeryoutfitters]

Respectfully wrong, I'm not suggesting that you "happen" to find a deer.  I am saying it is NOT illegal to use tracking dogs.  Heck I even suggest your dog wear a tracking vest.  Tracking dogs are PERFECT for outfitters to follow up and find wounded game for clients.  There is NOTHING shady or sneeky about using a tracking dog to find downed game.  If something is not outlawed then it is legal, always has been that way in WA. If you do NOT unsnap the leash and you are not armed you CANNOT be charged with using dogs illegally.  You don't have to do it half heartedly, you don't have to do it like "oh I'm not using this dog to find a downed deer, OH look what I stumbled on".  It's perfectly legal.  Someone, ANYONE prove me wrong!

As of 2010 tracking dogs were not legal  in Washington state according to this web site.      http://www.skinnymoose.com/moosedroppings/2010/04/28/time-to-make-blood-tracking-with-dogs-legal-during-all-big-game-seasons/           but it is in the majority  of the US states there is only 16 states in the US that it is not allowed on any level and guess what Washington is one of them, would really of been nice if it was.     

[Machias]

That is the common MISconception even amongst LE, but I have explained it clearly many times how they are wrong.  NOONE can show me where it is illegal, IF you are UNARMED AND THE DOG IS NOT UNLEASHED you cannot be charged.  I have picked apart each element of the RCW/WAC whatever, in their own regs it states walking a dog on a leash is NOT pursuit.  You are not violating a single element of the law by using a tracking dog.  Everyone, including LE assumes it's illegal but even they cannot explain how it is legal when picked apart.  I would be happy if someone could explain to me how using a tracking dog in WA is illegal.  Just because someone in Enforcement assumes it's illegal because everyone has always assumed it's illegal does not make it illegal.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying for us all to not just assume it's illegal because the man said so.  The man has been wrong so many times it's silly.  Plus websites are wrong all the time.  Concealed carry websites still has it illegal to carry concealed without a permit on thier sites even though I told them over and over it is not illegal to carry concealed without a permit.  So don't base your desicion on some website either.   

[Machias]

Respectfully wrong, I'm not suggesting that you "happen" to find a deer.  I am saying it is NOT illegal to use tracking dogs.  Heck I even suggest your dog wear a tracking vest.  Tracking dogs are PERFECT for outfitters to follow up and find wounded game for clients.  There is NOTHING shady or sneeky about using a tracking dog to find downed game.  If something is not outlawed then it is legal, always has been that way in WA. If you do NOT unsnap the leash and you are not armed you CANNOT be charged with using dogs illegally.  You don't have to do it half heartedly, you don't have to do it like "oh I'm not using this dog to find a downed deer, OH look what I stumbled on".  It's perfectly legal.  Someone, ANYONE prove me wrong!

As of 2010 tracking dogs were not legal  in Washington state according to this web site.      http://www.skinnymoose.com/moosedroppings/2010/04/28/time-to-make-blood-tracking-with-dogs-legal-during-all-big-game-seasons/           but it is in the majority  of the US states there is only 16 states in the US that it is not allowed on any level and guess what Washington is one of them, would really of been nice if it was.     

The website is basing this off information from Enforcement...they are wrong as well.