(poll added) Management input on Colockum Elk

[colockumelk]

The tribal issue is one half the issue. The other half of the issue is spike recruitment. There are too many roads open period. The higher tje road density the lower the escapement of elk. This is FACT.  You can do road management and still have plenty of access for other user groups.

Happy you are going way out on some limbs. The flower pickers and bird watchers are not gonna help us out. But prove me wrong. Go out and get their help. Work your angles and I will work mine. Your plans have a lot of what its.

Here is what I am gonna do. I am going to push for road managment. I am going to push to have gates and tank traps put up physically blocking the roads that are already posted. Then when that is done I am going to push to do closures to create a 1 mile buffer around the game reserve. Then if there is still money left push to close spur roads that lead nowhere. This will provide A LOT of escapement and won't hardly put a dent in the amount of miles you can drive in the colockum.

At the same time I am going to collect evidence and try to make my case for tribal managment and cooperation. As well as bringing these issues to the publics attention. You mentioned that not everyone would support road closures which maybe true. But I guarantee you that they ALL would rather see road management than permit only.

[colockumelk]

I mentioned this in another forum but in order to hunt tje Colockum with a bow you would have to be a complete moron. 

[Happy Gilmore]

I mentioned this in another forum but in order to hunt tje Colockum with a bow you would have to be a complete moron. 

I don't know of a year where an animal has not been taken by the guys in our camp.

I think we should just close the roads to rifle hunters, that would eliminate all the morons in the Colockum.

[colockumelk]

I mentioned this in another forum but in order to hunt tje Colockum with a bow you would have to be a complete moron. 

I don't know of a year where an animal has not been taken by the guys in our camp.

I think we should just close the roads to rifle hunters, that would eliminate all the morons in the Colockum.

Happy I was just kidding. I am a moron because I hunt the Colockum with a bow everyear. I also got one this year. As far as your comment about rifle hunters 

[Happy Gilmore]

I mentioned this in another forum but in order to hunt tje Colockum with a bow you would have to be a complete moron. 

I don't know of a year where an animal has not been taken by the guys in our camp.

I think we should just close the roads to rifle hunters, that would eliminate all the morons in the Colockum.

Happy I was just kidding. I am a moron because I hunt the Colockum with a bow everyear. I also got one this year. As far as your comment about rifle hunters 

you hunt it every year then you know the doctor......and a couple of guys who work in grocery stores in E-Burg....

[NWBREW]

I think we should just close the roads to rifle hunters, that would eliminate all the morons in the Colockum.

Yeah......I'll say it. If you close the roads to rifle hunters why would not close them to bow hunters? or were you just being a moron when you stated that.

[bearpaw]

We have some road closures on mule deer winter range in GMU 101 that I think run Dec 1 to March 31. I am sure they help save a few deer, but our predator population is so high that a year round road closure probably wouldn't solve the problem. Our mule deer numbers are only a fraction of what they used to be and are basically in a predator pit and unable to rebound.

Are predators an issue in the colockum or is it mostly human impact combined with easy access and limited cover that are the primary limiting factors?

[colockumelk]

We have some road closures on mule deer winter range in GMU 101 that I think run Dec 1 to March 31. I am sure they help save a few deer, but our predator population is so high that a year round road closure probably wouldn't solve the problem. Our mule deer numbers are only a fraction of what they used to be and are basically in a predator pit and unable to rebound.

Are predators an issue in the colockum or is it mostly human impact combined with easy access and limited cover that are the primary limiting factors?

I think predators are always somewhat of an issue, but it isn't the issue in the Colockum.  The problem with the Colockum is the easy access with limited cover.  We don't have wolves like you guys in the NE do.  There are bears in the Colockum but not even close to the number you have in the NE.  Not even close.  And I'm sure there are cougars in the Colockum I just have never seen one or seen cougar sign.  This year was only the second time I have seen bear sign.

Happy Gilmore I do not know the doctor or any of the guys who work in the grocery stores in Eburg.  Other than I met one guy who works in Albertson's who's brother or brother in law drew the first Rifle Rut tag in the Colockum.  He showed me the picture and it was impressive.  Where I hunt in the Colockum I don't really ever see anybody, other than if I am sitting in camp for lunch and guys drive by. 

NWBREW not defending his statement.  But the rifle season has a much much much larger impact on the Colockum elk herd than the bow season does.  According to harvest reports in the last three years on average bow hunters only have killed 21.33 true spikes a year.  Where rifle hunters have killed on average 184.33.  So if the Colockum went permit only for rifle hunters but stayed over the counter for bow (something I would not support) it would be okay for the herd.  Archers have a very minimal impact on the herd.  I would venture to say there is one person (who we shall not name) and a family (who we shall not name) that combines for easily twice what archers take out of the Colockum each year. 

[Rainier10]

The area I am in is the old Muzzleloader 911 area in unit 328.  In the past couple of years we have seen, yes seen, cougars cruising the roads and bears cruising the calving areas, so predators are definately an issue where I am at.   Hopefully I can put a bullet in one of these cats before the season is over and hit it hard next year for bear and cougar.  But I think it is really a combination of lots of things, roads, predators, poaching, cattle grazing.  A few years back right around college spring break time I drove up Wilson Creek road and found 3 dead cow elk next to the road, just shot and left for dead.  I called the game department and they didn't know if it was tribal or just college kids out on break drinking beer and shooting stuff.  There were beer cans littered around the area.
If one guy or a couple of guys is actually taking 20 plus animals a year that is a really big problem.

[Happy Gilmore]

We have some road closures on mule deer winter range in GMU 101 that I think run Dec 1 to March 31. I am sure they help save a few deer, but our predator population is so high that a year round road closure probably wouldn't solve the problem. Our mule deer numbers are only a fraction of what they used to be and are basically in a predator pit and unable to rebound.

Are predators an issue in the colockum or is it mostly human impact combined with easy access and limited cover that are the primary limiting factors?

I think predators are always somewhat of an issue, but it isn't the issue in the Colockum.  The problem with the Colockum is the easy access with limited cover.  We don't have wolves like you guys in the NE do.  There are bears in the Colockum but not even close to the number you have in the NE.  Not even close.  And I'm sure there are cougars in the Colockum I just have never seen one or seen cougar sign.  This year was only the second time I have seen bear sign.

Happy Gilmore I do not know the doctor or any of the guys who work in the grocery stores in Eburg.  Other than I met one guy who works in Albertson's who's brother or brother in law drew the first Rifle Rut tag in the Colockum.  He showed me the picture and it was impressive.  Where I hunt in the Colockum I don't really ever see anybody, other than if I am sitting in camp for lunch and guys drive by. 

NWBREW not defending his statement.  But the rifle season has a much much much larger impact on the Colockum elk herd than the bow season does.  According to harvest reports in the last three years on average bow hunters only have killed 21.33 true spikes a year.  Where rifle hunters have killed on average 184.33.  So if the Colockum went permit only for rifle hunters but stayed over the counter for bow (something I would not support) it would be okay for the herd.  Archers have a very minimal impact on the herd.  I would venture to say there is one person (who we shall not name) and a family (who we shall not name) that combines for easily twice what archers take out of the Colockum each year.

My two buddies where up scouting on the south east side of the refuge this year and walked into three cats together. They had a stare off. They also found three calves dead in the draw near our ground blinds. Couldn't determine what killed them as they were a little old and chewed on.

[groundhog]

First, I have to say that I have been in the cattle business for the last thirty years so my opinion may not mean much. I do not think that cattle have had a negative impact on the Colockum. At least not in the areas that I hunt and hike. It is a proven fact that responsible cattle grazing can and will improve habitat. The exception to this is when cattle are left to "camp out" for long periods of time in one area. The cattle that are in the Colockum have been turned out in the Colockum since they were calves and they know their way around and they seem to keep moving and looking for better grass. When I think of the problems in the Colockum,  cattle are not even on my list.
I have always been in favor of closing roads. Like many of you I like the idea of roadless country and being able to hike in and get away from the crowds. Just for the sake of argument lets look at the other side of the coin for a minute. The local Field and Stream club is against closing roads and limiting access. The club has a lot of older gentleman as members and they see road closures as loosing access to country they have always been able to access. They say road closures will help young "in shape hunters" and horseman but it well displace all other hunters and recreational users. I hear what they are saying and have to agree that my motives for closing roads may be a little selfish.
If we went to permit only we would not have to close any roads to proactively manage wildlife and the NA hunting would not be allowed.
Colockumelk, I disagree with your numbers with regard to a permit only hunt. Presently we have 3000 hunters each year in the Colockum. I think if we went to permit only we would have 10,000 or 12,000 hunters putting in for 1200 permits. Everyone would put in (all the eastside hunters) because it would be their best odds of drawing a good permit. Of the 3,000 hunters that hunt the Colockum only three or four hundred would draw tags and the rest of us would be forced  hunt somewhere else.
I am not sure what the answer is but so far it looks like permit only is the only way to solve the unaccountability of the native harvest and it would ensure that the wdfw could proactively manage towards the goal of a healthy herd. If we went to three point minimum or five point minimum we would be right back where we were 17 years ago in about two years.

[Rainier10]

The exception to this is when cattle are left to "camp out" for long periods of time in one area.

I think most of the problems are exceptions.  One or two native americans abusing rights,  a few people not staying on the current road system, a rancher or two leaving cattle in to long or dropping them off too early, and a few too many predators because of the loss of hound hunting and baiting statewide.

[Elkaholic daWg]

  As much as the thought of permit only usually turns my stomach, I must agree with groundhog in his last paragraph. Funny thing is, is that some regulars that normally promote "permit only" eastern elk are for road closures as the answer on this thread. Young uns I guess?

[bobcat]

  As much as the thought of permit only usually turns my stomach, I must agree with groundhog in his last paragraph. Funny thing is, is that some regulars that normally promote "permit only" eastern elk are for road closures as the answer on this thread. Young uns I guess?

I'm for a combination of permit only hunting and road closures. The number of permits issued for each GMU would depend on the degree of road closures. More roads closed = more permits issued.

[Elkaholic daWg]

  Where do you normally hunt elk? The Colockum?