(poll added) Management input on Colockum Elk

[bobcat]

  Where do you normally hunt elk? The Colockum?

No, I won't hunt spike only seasons.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 Pre 1994 before spike only?

[colockumelk]

Groundhog great post.  Just curious which numbers do you not agree with?  Could you please explain.  Hopefully I can clear it up or maybe I wrote it wrong or it was confusing how I wrote it.  Happens all the time. 

[bobcat]

Pre 1994 before spike only?

Only time I hunted the Colockum was when they had the early muzzleloader season. Other than that I was in the Teanaway, Taneum, Little Naches.

[groundhog]

Colockumelk,
I think in one of your post you mentioned that out of the 3,000 hunters that annually hunt the colockum only 1,800 would be forced to hunt else where because the other 1200 would draw permits. At least I think that is what you said.
I was just pointing out that everyone with an eastside tag can and probally will put in for a Colockum permit. Because of this only a small percentage of the annual Colockum hunters will draw permits and the rest of us will be forced to hunt somewhere else. If annual Colockum hunters only drew 25% of the permits (300) then 2700 hunters would be looking for a new hunting area. In this scenario 900 permits would go to other east side hunters that would leave their usual hunting area so the increase to other hunting areas would be 1,800 but 2,700 of the Colockum hunters would have to relocate.

It sounds crazy but I think we could have 10,000 or 12,000 applicants for 1200 permits if we went to permit only in the Colockum. Right now we have 5,520 rifle hunters apply for 120 peaches ridge tags and 4,993 rifle hunters apply for 63 Manashtash tags. If the scenario was this bad then you might only draw every ten years.

[colockumelk]

Okay thanks groundhog. I disagree. I don't think that guys who have been hunting the Yakima GMUs for a long time are going to put in for colockum cow tags. As far as bull tags I think the same thing since you can only apply for two permits. And guys are gonna pick GMUs they know. Surely there will be an increase of applicants for the Colockum bit not much.  12,000 Yakima GMU hunters are not going to take an interest in the Colockum especially since the Colockum is known to be hurting for bulls.

I will say this is my opinion and that is your opinion. Its tough to say exactly how tje cards would fall.

[groundhog]

I agree.  It is hard tellin, not knowin.  I think 200 rifle tags would significantly increase the interest in Colockum permits. Although I see your point. If they only counted 68 bulls in their survey maybe folks would prefer to try and draw in their traditional units that have more bulls.

It seems to me that whether we choose 3 point min, 5 point min, or permit only we are going to wipe out all the big old bulls in the first few years. I guess it is better than growing them for the Wolves, Cats and Indians.

[colockumelk]

 

[Elkaholic daWg]

 That and we seem to have a DFW that wants westside tag  holders to be able to apply for eastside permits,and the other way around .MORONS!

[bobcat]

That and we seem to have a DFW that wants westside tag  holders to be able to apply for eastside permits.  MORONS!

It's not the DFW that wants that- it's hunters.

[colockumelk]

They're not morons they are just misunderstood. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

That and we seem to have a DFW that wants westside tag  holders to be able to apply for eastside permits.  MORONS!

It's not the DFW that wants that- it's hunters.

Wasn't there a thread/topic on here a couple months ago with many of us  unhappy with the number of  non and anti hunters that took that survey and their anti hunting comments?.
 Was there not the suggestion that no one without a wild ID should be able to take it?

[fremont]

No more general seasons.

Use SCIENCE and manage the herd by issuing the appropriate number of special permits for both antlerless elk and bulls. Eliminate tribal hunting or at the least, reduce it by 90%, which probably means gates on most roads.

Pretty simple really. I'm sure the WDFW knows what needs to be done. They just don't know how to do it without losing money.

This is the solution.

Yep. I suggest they do the same thing with the deer in some of the 300 gmu's. But I doubt it will ever happen because they'll loose too much $$$. Which boggles my mind why they want wolves here so bad.... They don't buy tags. 

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

[jechicdr]

I have always been in favor of closing roads. Like many of you I like the idea of roadless country and being able to hike in and get away from the crowds. Just for the sake of argument lets look at the other side of the coin for a minute. The local Field and Stream club is against closing roads and limiting access. The club has a lot of older gentleman as members and they see road closures as loosing access to country they have always been able to access. They say road closures will help young "in shape hunters" and horseman but it well displace all other hunters and recreational users. I hear what they are saying and have to agree that my motives for closing roads may be a little selfish.

The "older gentleman" could still hunt the edges of the closed areas.  They would have the benefit of a larger elk heard with more "leakage" of animals out of the closed road areas.  More elk benefits everyone, not just the people who make the trek into areas with closed roads and wilderness.  People who hunt the wilderness of Bumping and Rimrock and Little Naches probably see more elk overall, but the people who hunt near the roads below those areas still see lots of elk, and the reason for the lots of elk is the huge reservoir of elk in the more inaccessible areas.  Every GMU with elk should have a safety zone (either wilderness or closed road).  Ever notice how the harvest numbers are greatest in the GMU's that have one?

[idahoelkhunter300wby]

On the topic of road closures, I think  it could only help the herd, obvioulsy.

However, I dont think it would be as big of an impact as some think.  To start with, the state is never gonna close colockum pass rd. not gonna happen. Ive been told that is a county road and it is an alternative hiway if you will.

The state is never gonna close off jumpoff ridge road up to four corners. not gonna happen.

I would doubt that they will ever close off the north fork of tarpiscan.

Coleman and cooke, I dont see those ever beeing closed either.

Now, assuming im rite, people are still gonna be able to get to the top of that mnt. range with their vehicles. poachers are still gonna have plenty of access.  "oldtimers" are still gonna be able to drive up to the reserve on colockum pass and rifle hunt. This is why I say that the whole road closure idea will only help, not solve the elk herd's situation.

Permit only,if colockumelk is correct, and it would allow the state to regulate what the tribes kill, then im ok with going permit only. Id rather only hunt every 5-6 years up there rather than see things continue the way they are.

Colockumelk, I asked you earlier but my queston got lost in conversation.  What do you think about a system where you could hunt the colockum every other year?  My idea was if your wild ID number ended in an even number, you hunt even years. Odd number, odd years.  Our SS# could be used also. This way you could plan ahead and know for sure where you were gonna hunt every year.