Cheap wine story- I needed something to put some loose items in. Found an empty Apex box by the trash can at the boat launch. 1 partner started off shootin real bad. Jokes were flying, birds not dying. Dumped the Apex box and put in a handful of Herters loads and told him to 'Step up to premium'. His sbooting improved a bit and became a believer in 'Apex' loads. Lucky I didn't slip in some boat flares. That gets em going