berger vld hunting bullets???

[duckmen1]

how is the accuracy and performance on game with these bullets? Do they bring game like elk, and bear down like they say. Bought some to reload and wanted to know how every ones success has been with berger. I will load 270 win, 300 win, 300 wsm, 30 06, 223
thanks for any info

[Wazukie]

They shoot great in my .243AI.  I haven't hunted with them but they are a great target bullet. 

[norsepeak]

work good for me, took down my mtn. goat at 190 yards and worked well.

[high country]

They are a typical cup and core bullet with killer bc. If you hit big bones early in the impact, you might be disapointed. If you make a clean pass through the vitals, there is nothing more devastating. Don't expect to make ass to tea kettle shots on elk like you could a Barnes, but do expect great accuracy and downrange ballistics with pretty devastating wound channels.

[Bob33]

They were designed to be an accurate target bullet with "Very Low Drag".  Some hunters shot them at game, as they do the Sierra Match Kings (another target bullet), and reported favorable results.

They appear to have a love/hate relationship with those who have used them on game.  Those that love them say they enter a couple inches, expand violently, expend all their energy inside the animal, and leave them "Dead Right There".  Those that hate them say they cannot be relied on to penetrate sufficiently with marginal shots.  They rarely leave an exit hole to aid in tracking.

Unless you are planning to shoot game at very long distances in excess of 600 yards, the high ballistic coefficients are of little advantage over other bullets.

I have not used them on game.  Personally, I prefer to use penetrating bullets that create two holes, and aren't prone to possible failure when hitting something.

[high country]

This is a bull I hit in the shoulder with a 142smk, which may as well be a berger 140.....very similar. The impact velocity was about 1950fps. The bullet entered the onside shoulder poked cleanly through the scapula and then proceeded to get very pissed in the lungs. The bullet continued on to break the offside shoulder and come to rest under the hide. There was no exit hole. There was also no tracking as the bull dropped like it was hit by a safe. This is the 4th elk I have killed with that bullet and all the others have been pass throughs.....and drt. Now before you think its all peaches and butterflies, my pard hit a bull last year with a 210gr 308 berger and the bull walked off. It was killed a few days later by his fil. The berger broke the humerous and stopped in the onside shoulder. There is no way to say a Barnes would have been much difference....just a bit of real world experience.

 

[BULLBLASTER]

i killed a muley ana an elk this year with 210 grainers from my 300 RUM. both about 100 yards. muley was broadside and i hit about at the diaphram. bullet went through destroying lungs and liver and some guts. found under hide on offside weighing 65 grains. buck went 15 yards and slid another 25 downhill. elk was running and first shot hit low in brisket and shattered brisket second shot was high above spine, almost missed. walked up to elk and could see heart and lungs from teh botom hit. there was bullet shards and bone shards in the heat and lungs. they have been very devistating bullets for me.

[Eli346]

Muley at 592 yds was a double lunged pass through with a huge wound channel but only took 2 steps. 300 WSM 168 Berger VLD

[Biggerhammer]

I have never used them for hunting but have several friends that have, 7mm WSM , .300 Ultra and 7mm Rem Mag. All have said point blank shots, 100 yards and under we're very messy, no exits and performance was compared to that of a Hornady SST at higher velocities. They seam to really shine a little further out, past 300 yards or so, after they have bled off a little velocity. From 300-550  yards they have dropped Mulies in their tracks with them. I don't see anything wrong with them but on the other hand a rifle gassed up with Hornady Interlocks or your choice of Nosler wouldn't change the out come of any of the same hits for me, so I have never felt the need to change over. I do shoot the Bergers for Chucks in a .204 Ruger, accurate and messy!

[longrange7mm]

They have always done what they were designed to do for me I  have friends that have had problems with them on shoulder shots. I have shot lots of Game with the 7mm 180gr between 40 and 900 yds including elk and bear so to answer your question they are a great bullet IMO I will be switching to Hornady next year however as far as accuracy they are one of the best on the market 

[Fowlweather25]

I shot my whitetail this year at 653 yards and killed him dead one shot! 168 gr. Berger vlds out of my 7mag

[rbros]

We have used them for the last 7 years and have nothing but great results.  Have shot the 6mm and 7mm versions the most on critters out to 1340yds and all but one fell in their tracks...one made it 20yds or so.  Most of the time there aren't any exit holes, but we usually high shoulder shoot everything and find the bullet under the hide on the offside shoulder.  Will be running the 338's this coming year and trying them out as well as the 30 cal 215 hybrids.

[sirmissalot]

They are a typical cup and core bullet with killer bc. If you hit big bones early in the impact, you might be disapointed. If you make a clean pass through the vitals, there is nothing more devastating. Don't expect to make ass to tea kettle shots on elk like you could a Barnes, but do expect great accuracy and downrange ballistics with pretty devastating wound channels.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I saw an elk shot right in the neck just below the head with a 30-378 shooting a 190 grain berger VLD, it was about a 100 yard shot. That gun, that big of a bullet at that range you would think it would have easily passed through but it didn't. There was of course not much left connecting the head to the carcass besides the hide. Seeing that makes me a little iffy about this bullet, I think just like highcountry said a behind the shoulder shot this bullet is just amazing, but I usually shoot for the shoulder(s) and unlike on TV you just can't always wait for that perfect broadside shot. In my opinion if you shoot a bull with this bullet at a quartering toward shot right in the shoulder, I don't think the bullet will make it to the vitals, even with a big magnum round shooting a heavy bullet. Just my 

[duckmen1]

i'm just a little worried about enough penetration to cleanly bring down elk and bears if they were hit in the shoulders. that big bone and that much expansion they are suppose to have makes me a little nervous

[BULLBLASTER]

They are a typical cup and core bullet with killer bc. If you hit big bones early in the impact, you might be disapointed. If you make a clean pass through the vitals, there is nothing more devastating. Don't expect to make ass to tea kettle shots on elk like you could a Barnes, but do expect great accuracy and downrange ballistics with pretty devastating wound channels.

This means that all the energy that.that bullet had (2600+lb guessed by 2500 fps impact velocity) was directed right at the spine of the elk... there is no animal whose spine can absorb 2600+ lbs of energy and be fine. You don't need a pass through to kill.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I saw an elk shot right in the neck just below the head with a 30-378 shooting a 190 grain berger VLD, it was about a 100 yard shot. That gun, that big of a bullet at that range you would think it would have easily passed through but it didn't. There was of course not much left connecting the head to the carcass besides the hide. Seeing that makes me a little iffy about this bullet, I think just like highcountry said a behind the shoulder shot this bullet is just amazing, but I usually shoot for the shoulder(s) and unlike on TV you just can't always wait for that perfect broadside shot. In my opinion if you shoot a bull with this bullet at a quartering toward shot right in the shoulder, I don't think the bullet will make it to the vitals, even with a big magnum round shooting a heavy bullet. Just my 

[sirmissalot]

I realize you don't need a passthrough to kill, and a spine shot especially in the neck will definitely do the job. The reason I told the story was because the size of the neck right below the head is pretty dang small, and in my opinion could be even less muscle and bone mass than the shoulder of an elk, especially if its on a quartering toward shot like I described.

I use berger bullets and love them, but I don't use them for large game. They fricken whack the hell out of coyotes, I swear by them in my 204.

[high country]

i'm just a little worried about enough penetration to cleanly bring down elk and bears if they were hit in the shoulders. that big bone and that much expansion they are suppose to have makes me a little nervous

You must have missed my pic. BTW, it had a starting velocity of 2950 and impact velocity of 1950.....you can do the math to figure how far that is. Don't over think it. Just make the bullet go where it is supposed to. You will be fine.

[BULLBLASTER]

The heavy bone you are referring to on an elk is roughly 4 inches wide no matter what angle you look at it. I always try and break at least one shoulder when I am rifle hunting and this year was no different. My shot exploded the elks briskte and broke the offside shoulder at the joint. I have full faith that a sufficiently sized Berger will break an elk shoulder as I have seen it happen.

[Fowlweather25]

I know elk and deer are very different but the buck I shot at 653 yards this year had 2 broken shoulders and the bullet came to rest just under the hide on the off side. If you can do that on a deer at that range I'm fairly confident you can penetrate one shoulder on an elk and still get vitals. That was shootin 168 grn vlds out of a 7mm. It's not always just about the bullet it's more so about the energy upon impact.

[Pathfinder101]

Shot 3 deer with my 7mm Rem Mag with 168 gr Berger VLDs this year.  One was my Mule Deer, shot at 180 yards through both shoulders in it's bed.  As I was walking up, it started to get up, so I shot him in the neck at less than 100 yds.  Second shot was uneccesary, but I didn't know at the time. 
The other two deer were shot by my 12 year old (who drew a second deer tag).  First one was a doe at between 250 and 300 yards (I didn't range it).  Shot through the ribs behind the shoulder and hit a rib on the exit side, tearing out a pretty good chunk.  Third was a 150 class whitetail at 294 yards, shot straight through the center of the chest and exited behind the left shoulder without touching a bone.  All three deer dead within a few feet of where they were shot. 
Effective?  Yes.  Dead deer?  Absolutely.  Big hole and bullet fragments when you hit bone?  Yup.  Of course, as has been mentioned earlier, none of the shots were long enough to take "advantage" of the VLD's chief selling point, which is long-range accuracy.  But that is what my rifle is sighted in with (I have CDS target knobs on my scope-built specifically for that round), so that is what I shoot.

[sirmissalot]

It's not always just about the bullet it's more so about the energy upon impact.

This is exactly right, and thats where berger bullets start to really shine with their high BC values and fragmentation. A barnes bullet won't have as much energy (at least on paper, not talking by experience) as a berger, and the barnes won't fragment and won't mushroom nearly as well at the long distances ie 6-700+ yards. If I were a long ranger hunter (I am not) I would look much closer at berger bullets for big game.

[Pathfinder101]

You can kind of see the giant exit wound on the first pic.  On my son's buck you can only see a tiny dime-sized hole in the center of the chest.

[trophyhunt]

I've been using them for my 300win for the past 5 years and I have had no complaints. Furthest shot was 550 on a black bear, it did the job. I have killed about 3 elk and a couple deer along with that bear. I shoot the 190grain berger.

[high country]

Energy is waaaay over rated. I flat destroyed the offside shoulder of this animal. Impact energy was about 1100. The energy 3" later was zero. I assure you it did not retain 100% of its energy till it broke that scapula. Minimum energy figures come from magnumitis.

[Fowlweather25]

You still have to have kinetic energy to have penetration and a wound channel. It's simple physics. The more energy the bullet has upon impact the deeper it will penetrate. Obviously when it strikes a hard surface energy is lost. That being said the higher the number upon impact the deeper it will travel, and therefore cause a more devestating wound channel and impact the vital organs and tissues a lot harder.

[rbros]

I know elk and deer are very different but the buck I shot at 653 yards this year had 2 broken shoulders and the bullet came to rest just under the hide on the off side. If you can do that on a deer at that range I'm fairly confident you can penetrate one shoulder on an elk and still get vitals. That was shootin 168 grn vlds out of a 7mm. It's not always just about the bullet it's more so about the energy upon impact.

A bull I shot at 1103 was with a 168 Berger in a 7mm at 3340fps.  Broke both shoulders and was under the hide.  Dropped where he stood.  About the same effect as the other ones over 1k with a 300gr SMK in my Edge.  Didn't have time to test out the 300gr Bergers this year, but will will in 2012.  I wouldn't hesistate on deer or elk out to 1k with the 7mm 168 or 180, beyond that, a little more horsepower would be appreciated.  Not needed if shot placement is correct, but gives a little more margin if something does go wrong.

[high country]

You still have to have kinetic energy to have penetration and a wound channel. It's simple physics. The more energy the bullet has upon impact the deeper it will penetrate. Obviously when it strikes a hard surface energy is lost. That being said the higher the number upon impact the deeper it will travel, and therefore cause a more devestating wound channel and impact the vital organs and tissues a lot harder.

You may want to look at some ballistics tests....faster is not always deeper penetrating, infact bergers and smks tend to work well at slower speeds.

[BOWHUNTER45]

You can kind of see the giant exit wound on the first pic.  On my son's buck you can only see a tiny dime-sized hole in the center of the chest.

Thats a fine whitetail little Pathfinder ...looks like he got hit hard !!!

[Pathfinder101]

You can kind of see the giant exit wound on the first pic.  On my son's buck you can only see a tiny dime-sized hole in the center of the chest.

Thats a fine whitetail little Pathfinder ...looks like he got hit hard !!!

THanks Bowhunter.  He made a great shot.  294 yards, steep uphill shot.  The buck was chasing does and stopped, facing straight towards us.  The only shot he had was straight into the chest.  He touched off the round, the buck tucked it's tail and ducked into the draw.  "I hit him." he said "Right here, through the chest" and pointed with his finger to exactly where that little hole is in the picture.  I wasn't so confident, but when we walked up the hill, there he was, only a few yards from where he was standing when he shot, dead as a wedge...

[Kuduman]

Sirmissallot
 A few years ago I contacted Berger while doing some bullet compairsons preparing for an African safari trip. At that point all they could comment on was their field testing results for target shooting which were excellent. I personally only use bonded bullets spicifically Hornady innerbond. The vld,s are great bullets and they may have completed more field research in the past few years. I would recommend contacting Berger directly, they were a great help to me. I just chose to stay with a more established hunting bullet manufacturer than one that at that time specialized in target bullets. But in their defence Berger bullets were probably the most accurate I tested.
good luck

Jeff
A.K.A. Kuduman