Thinking About Getting into Snowshoeing. Needing some advice.

[Sliverslinger]

For quite a while now I've been thinking about getting into snowshoeing. Many of the places I found in the Mt. Adams Wilderness area this year while hunting  have been stuck in my mind as a place I would love to see during the winter. Thinking about watching the weather carefully (will be around 5000-6000 ft) and picking a weekend to do a backpacking two night trip in to explore and take a ton of photos. My concerns are weather which I'm very well prepared for, and then avalanche danger on some of the steep slopes which I have no experience at all with. Do any of you guys ever do this sort of thing? Any tips or advice, things I might not think to bring or that wouldn't be obvious? Also, since I've never snowshoed before, any thoughts or advice on brands or types of snowshoes? Other gear that would be a necessity. I'm try to glean as much info and do my research before taking this on. thanks for the help guys!

[JimmyHoffa]

I would suggest looking at the modern style, plastic shoes.  They allow your foot to dig in and break through the crust, as well as have good claws along the edges to keep you moving.  The old school woven type work great on powder, but when you get into washington mountains, you might get steep spots where the wind has blown loose powder and leaves icy crusted stuff.  The woven style can (for me) just slide right off and become dangerous.

[JLS]

Take some training in avalanche danger recognition and avalanche avoidance.  Buy a beacon and know how to use it.  Don't go anywhere with your beacon that you wouldn't go without.

[Machias]

MSR snowshoes are outstanding.

[pope]

Ditto on the avalanche training, and ditto on the beacon advice. Of course, without a couple of buddies who also carry beacons, the beacon will do you no good. Under heavy, wet snow, your chances of getting out alone are zero. That stuff sets up like concrete. Everybody in your party should carry a snow shovel and a beacon and know how to use the beacons. Also keep in mind that 99% of avalanches let go during or within 24 hours after a storm, most on open slopes of 30 to 45 degrees. It's foolish to be out on that kind of terrain when avalanche danger is high. Detailed avalanche danger predictions are available here: http://www.nwac.us/

Regarding snowshoes, I've been happy with my Atlas snowshoes, which are aluminum framed with neoprene webbing and claws for wind-swept, crusty slopes. Also bring ski poles for balance and climbing power. Your average hunting boot may not be sufficient for winter conditions at that elevation so consider purchasing a pair of plastic mountaineering boots.

[ICEMAN]

Sliverslinger. I have done this for years, including taking my wife and kids along.

Here are my recommendations;

Snowshoe first. Take a few short day trips. Get good and comfortable with your snowshoeing gear and clothing, etc...before you attempt an overnighter.

Read tons about overnighting. I researched the living crap out of it before we went out for an overnighter. Learn about hypothermia. Learn about dehydration. Learn about all of your gear you will be taking.

Plan your first overnighter 1/8 or 1/4 mile from your truck. Your experience will be virtually the same, and you will have an easy out if something goes wrong.

Duh, always have a few folks know exactly where you will be going, and returning.

Food freezes solid on these trips.

No cotton clothing period. Nothing is allowed. Poly, wool, down, no cotton. (Did I mention no cotton?)

Don't trust an inflatable sleep pad, use two foam cheapies from wallyworld.

Take a repair kit for your snowshoes.

We have the old fashioned metal tube and hypalon deck snowshoes. I am over 300lbs and need the biggest freaking shoe on the market, 36" long shoes... Poles are also a must have...

Consider using cooking gear with no moving parts, IE: an alcohol stove system similar to a Trangia...  (I use an optimus single port climbing stove, PLUS a Trangia stove system. You will be thawing alot of snow to keep everyone hydrated which is a huge problem when snow camping.

When staying in frigid weather, plus all the exertion you will be going thru, your body will dehydrate at rates similar to a hike in the desert. No kidding.  Your skin likes a relative humidity (Rh) in the high 80's...and the low Rh of artic environments causes your body to go into overdrive, pumping moisture to your skin. Most folks do not drink enough fluids in cold weather because they do not feel thirst, and hence you get dehydrated quick. (Ever notice your cracks in you skin at your fingertips in cold cold weather?, Now you know why, you are dehydrated big time and are peeing dark yellow. )   Also, dehydration accelerates hypothermia, so do caffeinated drinks like coffee, so when snow camping it is nice to have options. We warm powdered apple cider, low caffeine cocoa, warm tang, warm gatorade, warm jello. (Kids love the jello...)

Stomp down an area you wish to camp on, then get off it for 30 minutes, it will pack and refreeze hard, then later you can walk around on it without snowshoes. If you try to just set up a tent on loose snow, it will be a sucky camp site...

I have a fews threads about some of our trips, will try to find a link....

Good luck.

[ICEMAN]

Link for Sliverslinger

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,20844.0.html

[seth30]

I started snowshoieng last year, and I can tell you its a work out you wont forget!  Do some leg cardio, and strenght exersises   make sure to post some of the pictures from your trip.  I always enjoy a new desktop image from the forum

[boneaddict]

Good advice from all.   I don't have a beacon but should.   

When buying snowshoes, get bigger than your weight class if you can in order to compensate for gear.   If you are not an outdoorsman, either go with someone who is, or try to get used to the woods first.   Its as simple as going to sleep and dieing.   You need to be a little more on your game.  Its alot of exercise and fun but can go south in a hurry.  Don't think you can cellphone your way out of trouble.

[Fl0und3rz]

It's fun - I love it.

Snowshoes: ditto on the aluminum-framed hypalon-decked snowshoes.  I have Atlas, and they work well, but I have had my eye on the newer MSR designs with the vertical aluminum bar frame that has bite around the edge of the frame.  Get the size appropriate for your weight plus gear weight. You will fall over and laugh at yourself the first time you put them on and attempt to walk - it is unnatural.  But you will get used to it.

Boots and Gaiters: Snowshoes have a strap that runs around the back of your boot, and typical mountaineering boots have a small ledge at the heel designed to keep that strap in place. I can't say how well the strap would stay on boots that don't have that ledge. Gaiters will keep the snow out of your boots and keep the lower portion of your pants dry and keep you from poking holes in your rain pants with your poles or snowshoe cleats.

Poles: Get some, if you don't already have them, and get the snow baskets that are much better than the pointy tips at supporting your weight on snow.  They can also be used to support tarps and as a makeshift rifle rest if you need it.

Clothing: all poly or wool, dress in layers, remove layers before you start sweating (even if you start out freezing), and put them back on after you stop and dry out somewhat.  I did not that once on a return trip to the car, and when I got back, I could wring my fleece out like a sponge (literally, sweat poured out like water from a saturated sponge).  Had anything gone wrong, where I was forced to wait out weather or a rescue, things could have gone downhill fast.  A good pair of packable rain gear is necessary - I like the kind with excessive pit vents, and leg side zips (easy on/off over boots).  If I am doing anything more than a moderate workout, I frequently only wear my insulating underwear layer and the rain pants (and rain coat if it is drippy or raining), but I take all the other layers of course. Take extra socks, gloves, and hat.

Hydration and Salt/Minerals: You will sweat tremendously on anything more than a moderate workout.  You will need to replace water and, if even slightly more than a moderate workout, salt and minerals.  Short story about a long trip: got to the top and started feeling headachey.  I had been replacing water from my camelback frequently, eating a few powerbars on the way up, and had a nice meal once we reached the top, but my headache continued even though I took a few Excedrin Migraine.  It wasn't until the post trip burger and salty fries that my headache magically disappeared.  I needed the salt, in retrospect. Now I pack salty trail mix to maintain salt in my body.  Drink often (camelback is the best for this).  Obviously you will need to melt snow or get water from a flowing source, so pot and stove should be taken as well as a backup method for water (purification tabs if you have a free flowing source).   

Protection: Sunglasses, sunscreen, and lip balm.  The sun is bright on snow if you plan on going above the clouds.

Snow camping: foam pad is good advice, as is packing down the snow before setting camp. Get a backpacking snow shovel for this. I have only snow camped once, in a 4 season tent and about 100 yards from my truck.  I'm planning to take a snow camping trip with a tarp, ECWS sleeping gear with bivy sack, and a pad some time, and this is probably what you should consider as a minimum.  It's amazing what you learn about what works and what doesn't by trying it.  Things such as keeping the tent windows and doors open to allow dissipation of the moisture in your breath  come from experienced people (otherwise your breath condenses and freezes and it rains on you and your gear when the sun comes up and it is warm enough).  Go up and camp near your truck for an overnighter a few times to see what works and what does not.

Avalanche and Glacier safety: I cannot offer much here other than to look at a map, check to see whether your path will be crossing a glacier field or extreme slopes (those that present avalanche danger) and change your route, or go with an experienced friend after ensuring you have adequate gear and training (think roping up to avoid/minimize crevasse danger and locating/digging someone out of an avalanche). Some gear you could need are crampons, ice axe, snow shovel, avalanche poles, beacons.  But the best thing to have is experience and an experienced friend.  Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills is a pretty comprehensive resource out on avalanche and glacier safety as well as other things mountaineering.

[MikeWalking]

MSR snowshoes are outstanding.

Buy Poles too.

I still use the Denali's I bought in the mid '90's.  I bought the bolt on tails for them but found they don't help too much.  Buy Poles too.  They really seem to shift the weight forward and cause the shoes to dive.   For light trips they've been incredible.  I have done week long trips on them too.  Buy Poles too.   Traveling the West side I have seen all conditions.  Heavy wet snow, the Denali's favorite to deep loose windblown powder,  where they start to struggle.

Buy poles too. You will fall.  Good PAC boots and gaiters. Plus a good shovel.

Hmm  maybe I'll take a walk before the game.

[Shed Stud]

Been shoeing for along time, had lots of shoes. The new MSR lightning accent is pricy but worth it. The tube frame offers very little traction in the steep and/or icy. Love my lightning's

[Fl0und3rz]

Been shoeing for along time, had lots of shoes. The new MSR lightning accent is pricy but worth it. The tube frame offers very little traction in the steep and/or icy. Love my lightning's

Those are the ones I have been looking at.  Good to see a side-by-side, because that is the primary drawback of the tube frame (sliding on steep terrain) on the Atlas shoes I have.

[Rob]

I started last year.  Lots of fun.

Before I did an overnighter, I packed 50 pounds of water around in my backpack in some soft snow to get a feel for how my shoes would perform.

When buying shoes, you will get a much better deal by buying at the end of the season!  Consider renting from REI, and then if you like it, buying a set in Feb/March when they go on clearance for 1/2 price.

After having done a season of snowshoeing, I kinda wish I had picked up cross country skis instead-looks like a lot more fun

[Helix]

I've been doing snow shoe overnight trips and survival trainings for years with SAR and on my own.  It can be great fun.  First,  If you plan to do this more than just on FS roads and even then, you need formal avalanche training. Period.  I've had formal training several times and I don't consider myself an expert at all.  if you have not had avalanche training you might as well go play in I-5 traffic or jog in a mine field. 

Winter travel in WA is often deadly.  I've been on recover missions for over a dozen dead bodies with SAR that were minor injuries turned fatality due to exposure.  Winter travel, with snow, alone is a recipe for death and disaster.  Even minor injury can be fatal if you don't have a buddy.  Get a buddy.  Learn this mantra: Beacon, Probe, Shovel.  Don't travel with anybody who doesn't carry all 3.  If someone shows up without a shovel and probe put yours on their pack.  You carry a shovel/probe to rescue your buddy not for yourself.  If they don't bring one they can carry yours.   If they protest point out you are carrying theirs. 

I would recommend doing a couple of day hikes with your full pack to shake down your gear. Pick a bad weather day It makes a difference.  My first time out it was 34 degrees and pouring down rain.  It might as well have been a canoe trip. I don't think I use any of that gear anymore it all got replaced with better gear. On your day hike, make a hot lunch and boil some water to test out your stove in the snow.  Plan to hike about 1/3 to 1/2 what you would with no snow. 

Stove:  Get a liquid fuel stove. Iso propane will not be a gas at the temps you will encounter and it will not work in most canister stoves.  the only exceptions I've found are the inverted canister stoves that burn the liquid iso propane. 

Clothes: as stated above.  NO COTTON.  Cotton kills. Do not wear anything cotton.  Not even your shorts.  You would be better off with no underwear than wearing cotton.  My first time out I tried it.  It was bad.  It doesn't dry.  If it had been a real survival situation and not a training I might not have made it but I learned a lot.  Down is great if you keep it dry.  It is useless if it gets wet.  Look for down clothes with a DWR or better goretext shell.  Don't wear it while you hike or without a shell over it if raining/snowing.   

Raingear: get some good 3 layer rain gear.  It isn't cheep but in WA especially the wet side you need quality rain gear to enjoy winter sports. 

Layers:  when you are moving and it isn't raining/snowing plan to wear just your base layer and maybe a wind layer with light weight gloves and hat.  As long as you are moving this will be enough to keep you comfortable.  Have warm layers to throw on as soon as you stop.  keep them accessible so you can layer up quick.  Moving with less layers on will keep your warm layers dry for when you stop.  They will be a lot less warm if they are soaked in sweat. 

Shelter:  a goretex bivy sack is a great investment.  Snow caves and igloo shelters are viable forms of shelter learn to make them.  Do not get a down sleeping bag. Get a full length sleeping pad.  Carry a tarp style space blanket.  This Igloo was built near Steven's pass a few years back.  to build on like this it generally takes 3 people.  this one is admittedly too tall.  we weren't careful (got help) on the last 25% and it caved in and had to be rebuilt. 

[Helix]

Oh I almost forgot.  Boots.  find a pair of boots that don't have leather in the toe/midfoot area.  that area will freeze during the night and be like wearing a concrete boot on day 2.  Leather in the upper part is OK as it doesn't need to flex.  Get insulated boots.  If they have a snowshoe bail on the heel all the better.

[MikeWalking]

"Do not get a Down bag"   ??   I've been winter camping since 1972 and have never had a problem keeping one dry.  My current -5 650fill has a Dry-Loft shell that has had heavy condensation rub on it for night after night without soaking through. 

One of my favorite winter camps is to A-Frame a tarp over a pit with an old climbing rope.  Pack a spot and put up the tent. Dig a chest deep pit with steps/slope up to the tent. No crawling in/out.  Use the dug out snow for walls and you have a sheltered spot to cook, change, stand up and stretch.   In some ways I like snow camps better than winter (except for the lack of swimming)  With an A-Framed tarp you can carve out the equal of living room/kitchen under it.  You'd be surprised how much light you get from two candles in that pit too.

[Helix]

My experience with down bags is not as good. Used one one time and won't ever again.  Got cold spots, also got damp.  Maybe if it had been colder and not wet it would have worked better. I like a good poly fill bag It's just more tollerant of our wet snow conditions IMHO.  To each their own I suppose.  Glad you found something you like. 

[MikeWalking]

My experience with down bags is not as good. Used one one time and won't ever again.  Got cold spots, also got damp.  Maybe if it had been colder and not wet it would have worked better. I like a good poly fill bag It's just more tollerant of our wet snow conditions IMHO.  To each their own I suppose.  Glad you found something you like.

I've had more problems with the Synthetic bags I've tried.  Cold spots, clammy...  A lot depends on exactly which model of what you buy and how well you take care of it. How well you pack it.  Both have gotten better, a lot better in my lifetime.  I've got a cheap Kelty (won playing Dime Pull tabs)  that's great for summer jeep camps but the liner wore through in 2 summers.  I also still have the REI Down bag bought for me in 1971 (a little short for me now lol)  but it still fluffs up good.

My current Down bag was bough on a closeout sale for $280 normally $400.   The only Syn bags I've tried were nowhere in that price range.

[Helix]

I also notice the OP mentioned taking a lot of photos.  I ruined a camera on a snow shoe trip.  It was the second morning and I put my olympus (not waterproof) in my jacket pocket.  The camera was freezing cold and got a coating of ice almost instantly from condensing my perspiration.  I took a few shots that day and they all looked like they had snow falling in them even though it was clear, due to ice crystals forming inside the camera.  the auto-focus was ruined.  that camera is now a paper-weight. 

My advice on cameras would be use a waterproof one and don't put it in your jacket when it is cold. 

[MikeWalking]

Had some camera issues first time out too.  Luckily I was between good cameras. I took a few one time use cameras. Most photos came out good.  Some not so good.  Those were the ones from the camera that went in and out of my inner pockets a lot.

[pope]

Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGd1e9S90OU , then take that avalanche course. A good avalanche class should scare the wee wee out of you. A friend of mine got avalanched off Mt. Snoqualmie just a couple of years ago. Everybody in the party took a beating and needed rescue. These guys were very experienced back-country, winter travelers/climbers. For whatever reason, they went out for a ski when the avalanche danger was considerable.

[ICEMAN]

Yeah, we use waterproof cameras. The issue is you warm it in by your body and the air expands, then you pull it out into the cold, the air in the camera shrinks and pulls in moist air. Waterproof sort of helps, but not always. Our digital hard-drive video camera has a feature that if sub zero..., it shuts down to preserve the hard drive, really pisses me off.... 

An igloo is a great survival lesson for everyone. The problem is they take forever to build. I think I would build my snow trench with a branch lid and a tossed snow cover, if I was solo and if I needed the shelter. Problem with most caves is that you get soaked building one. Igloos can be built and you may not get wet, but they are no panacea and require just the right snow pac. You need fir boughs to keep you off the snow in all cases...

Teach them kids young!

[seth30]

That looks like fun!

[Helix]

iceman,  love the shot of you with your revolver sticking out the pocket. For sure Igloos Aint the easiest.  case in point my pic posted witht he roof that fell in and had to be rebuilt.  however I don't want to hijack this thread with all my igloo building skills/pointers. 

If you want to skip tents/bivy sacs and build snow shelteres get a good stamped alum snow saw.  it makes all the diference when builing these things.  it can also be used for cave building and really speeds up the process/cuts down the wet factor if you do it right.   

[ICEMAN]

Helix, I learned to put my 357 holster onto my sled pulling harness when we snowshoe...

We see cat tracks every day it seems, and since my kids were small, they were always shoeing ahead or occasionally draggin a few yards back, so I wanted ole reliable ready for action.

I always call out "cat-check" ... and everyone looks over their shoulders and into the woods each time I say it...   

[Helix]

Nice.  good advice.  Just don't yell Here kitty kitty.  I hear that brings um in like mad.