berger hybrid bullets ...updated 6/8/12

[BULLBLASTER]

Thinking of trying some Berger 215 grain hybrids in my 300 rum. With a BC of. 696 they should be pretty flat shooting. I ran numbers and with the same velocity as Berger 210 there is over 1 moa less drop with the 215s. Should be less finnicky on seating depth also. Anyone tried these yet?

[JPhelps]

I have been talking with rbros on here and that is the bullet he is going to be building his 300 ultra mags around. 

[rbros]

The 215's are working well.  Seating depth works best within .015" to touching for the best accuracy.  We were all hoping they would like any "jump", but that doesn't seem to be the case.  They do shoot well, but generally make the rifle a single shot, even with a Wyatt's extended box mag.  3150ish range in 28" barrels is pretty easy to get with 1/2moa accuracy.  A 10 twist barrel is needed and doesn't seem to shoot as well in the 11 twist rifles like the 210's do.  Only have about 200 down range so far, but it looks promising for the 30 cal.  Turns the 300RUM into a new animal for sure.

[Biggerhammer]

Screw the Bergers! They cant do anything the 208 A-Max has done, is doing and will do.

[rbros]

Screw the Bergers! They cant do anything the 208 A-Max has done, is doing and will do.

Except shoot flatter, less wind drift, and hit a little harder.  Both will perform the same on critters for sure.  The A Max is a little softer than the Berger, but both will kill.

Based on my results on paper at 1k, the Berger does shoot flatter and less windage by:

Elevation: 9.25"
Windage: 6"

It hits harder by 200ft/lbs roughly according to the ballistic programs.  I have shot these several time on paper at 1K to see the difference in 300WM and 300 RUM and the results are pretty damn consistent. 

[BULLBLASTER]

In my research I have found the Berger's to have better specs. But wouldn't mind trying.some amax bullets. Thanks again rbros for the assistance. I will let you know when I get some loaded and shooting!

[BULLBLASTER]

i ordered 8 lbs of retumbo and 50 of the 215 grainers to try out. got load data from berger as well. i will post after i shoot them. 

[BULLBLASTER]

finished setting up my reloading set today, and made a dummy round for length using the 215s. these would be 3.9 inches OAL to touch the lands. i will try loading at 3.69 for my first development rounds. i hope they will shoot with that jump. it shoots well with the 210 vld and .1 inch jump, the hybrid supposed to shoot well with more jump so we will see. 

[MDGrand]

I think what needs to be made clear here though, is that The Hornday A-Max, is NOT designed for hunting. Not to say it can't be used.. but know that if you use it, and it does not do what you want, its because its a target round and not meant to used on Animals.

The Berger 210 VLD on the other hand IS made for hunting.. so..

[MtnMuley]

finished setting up my reloading set today, and made a dummy round for length using the 215s. these would be 3.9 inches OAL to touch the lands. i will try loading at 3.69 for my first development rounds. i hope they will shoot with that jump. it shoots well with the 210 vld and .1 inch jump, the hybrid supposed to shoot well with more jump so we will see.

Make sure at 3.69, that you can load your magazine before you build too far/much.

[Biggerhammer]

I think what needs to be made clear here though, is that The Hornday A-Max, is NOT designed for hunting. Not to say it can't be used.. but know that if you use it, and it does not do what you want, its because its a target round and not meant to used on Animals.

The Berger 210 VLD on the other hand IS made for hunting.. so..

Have you witnessed what a 208 A-Max does to Mule deer and Elk at extended ranges with a .300 Win Mag pushing it? I have, it's a very effective bullet. I wouldn't trust it point blank, especially with a Ultra Mag case behind it. In close it acts just like a SST at higher velocities, a very effective rockchuck/varmint bullet and thats it.

[BULLBLASTER]

finished setting up my reloading set today, and made a dummy round for length using the 215s. these would be 3.9 inches OAL to touch the lands. i will try loading at 3.69 for my first development rounds. i hope they will shoot with that jump. it shoots well with the 210 vld and .1 inch jump, the hybrid supposed to shoot well with more jump so we will see.

Make sure at 3.69, that you can load your magazine before you build too far/much.

yep  that is the longest that will fit and feed. same length i was loading the 210s. the 215 are .1 or so longer on the nose causing a bit more jump. may load a few tonight, then have to find time to hit the range.

[Biggerhammer]

finished setting up my reloading set today, and made a dummy round for length using the 215s. these would be 3.9 inches OAL to touch the lands. i will try loading at 3.69 for my first development rounds. i hope they will shoot with that jump. it shoots well with the 210 vld and .1 inch jump, the hybrid supposed to shoot well with more jump so we will see.

Make sure at 3.69, that you can load your magazine before you build too far/much.

yep  that is the longest that will fit and feed. same length i was loading the 210s. the 215 are .1 or so longer on the nose causing a bit more jump. may load a few tonight, then have to find time to hit the range.

I have a extra Wyatt's ultra mag extended box mag if you would like it. With a little fitting you can seat them out further. If they don't shoot for you seated deep.

[BULLBLASTER]

finished setting up my reloading set today, and made a dummy round for length using the 215s. these would be 3.9 inches OAL to touch the lands. i will try loading at 3.69 for my first development rounds. i hope they will shoot with that jump. it shoots well with the 210 vld and .1 inch jump, the hybrid supposed to shoot well with more jump so we will see.

Make sure at 3.69, that you can load your magazine before you build too far/much.

yep  that is the longest that will fit and feed. same length i was loading the 210s. the 215 are .1 or so longer on the nose causing a bit more jump. may load a few tonight, then have to find time to hit the range.

I have a extra Wyatt's ultra mag extended box mag if you would like it. With a little fitting you can seat them out further. If they don't shoot for you seated deep.

Thanks Hammer!
pm sent!
i have wanted a wyatts but wasnt sure about installation, i dont have a mill. would most smiths be able to install it?

i loaded up some development loads starting lower and working up. maybe ill get to shoot this weekend or next.

[MtnMuley]

I have the Wyatts extender in one of my custom RUMs, and it didn't gain me any OAL.

[carpsniperg2]

I think what needs to be made clear here though, is that The Hornday A-Max, is NOT designed for hunting. Not to say it can't be used.. but know that if you use it, and it does not do what you want, its because its a target round and not meant to used on Animals.

The Berger 210 VLD on the other hand IS made for hunting.. so..

Have you witnessed what a 208 A-Max does to Mule deer and Elk at extended ranges with a .300 Win Mag pushing it? I have, it's a very effective bullet. I wouldn't trust it point blank, especially with a Ultra Mag case behind it. In close it acts just like a SST at higher velocities, a very effective rockchuck/varmint bullet and thats it.

I agree they can kill just fine. Just like the berger 300, a lot of guys run them in the long range 338's. They are not made for hunting but I know more then a few guys that have killed animals with them.

[rbros]

I have the Wyatts extender in one of my custom RUMs, and it didn't gain me any OAL.

Then you have the wrong mag box.  The MBE-3 is .110" longer inside than a factory Remington box.  Fitting them takes a little time in the mill.  Just make sure whoever does it for you does it correctly.  I have been fixing them ALOT lately that weren't installed correctly....mainly by a bigname shop here in Washington.

[MtnMuley]

I have the Wyatts extender in one of my custom RUMs, and it didn't gain me any OAL.

Then you have the wrong mag box.  The MBE-3 is .110" longer inside than a factory Remington box.  Fitting them takes a little time in the mill.  Just make sure whoever does it for you does it correctly.  I have been fixing them ALOT lately that weren't installed correctly....mainly by a bigname shop here in Washington.

This one was installed by Christensen.  Where are you located, as I'd be happy to have it looked at.

[Biggerhammer]

I have the Wyatts extender in one of my custom RUMs, and it didn't gain me any OAL.

Then you have the wrong mag box.  The MBE-3 is .110" longer inside than a factory Remington box.  Fitting them takes a little time in the mill.  Just make sure whoever does it for you does it correctly.  I have been fixing them ALOT lately that weren't installed correctly....mainly by a bigname shop here in Washington.

What exactly would there be to fix on a Wyatt's extended box install? I have several installed by the " BIG NAME" Shop here in Washington. Curious to see what it could be?

[rbros]

I have the Wyatts extender in one of my custom RUMs, and it didn't gain me any OAL.

Then you have the wrong mag box.  The MBE-3 is .110" longer inside than a factory Remington box.  Fitting them takes a little time in the mill.  Just make sure whoever does it for you does it correctly.  I have been fixing them ALOT lately that weren't installed correctly....mainly by a bigname shop here in Washington.

What exactly would there be to fix on a Wyatt's extended box install? I have several installed by the " BIG NAME" Shop here in Washington. Curious to see what it could be?

Most shops aren't cutting the relief for the caseheads back like it is supposed to be.  If this is not done, the cases fit down in the box, but won't feed and are basically stuck there.  I have seen a couple where the the action wasn't machined at all, but the box was ground to set into the factory cut, bolt stops that were not cut to allow the bolt to come back far enough and pickup the case.  I can take a picture if needed.  I will be doing a weekly batch of them this weekend.


Mtnmuley,

I am located in Elma, 20 min West of Olympia.

[MDGrand]

I think what needs to be made clear here though, is that The Hornday A-Max, is NOT designed for hunting. Not to say it can't be used.. but know that if you use it, and it does not do what you want, its because its a target round and not meant to used on Animals.

The Berger 210 VLD on the other hand IS made for hunting.. so..

Have you witnessed what a 208 A-Max does to Mule deer and Elk at extended ranges with a .300 Win Mag pushing it? I have, it's a very effective bullet. I wouldn't trust it point blank, especially with a Ultra Mag case behind it. In close it acts just like a SST at higher velocities, a very effective rockchuck/varmint bullet and thats it.

The Manufacturer.. Hornady.. still does not recommend them for hunting.. just stating a fact. People should be aware as you just mentioned in your example that only in certain calibers/velocities is it truely effective as a hunting bullet.

[Biggerhammer]

I think what needs to be made clear here though, is that The Hornday A-Max, is NOT designed for hunting. Not to say it can't be used.. but know that if you use it, and it does not do what you want, its because its a target round and not meant to used on Animals.

The Berger 210 VLD on the other hand IS made for hunting.. so..

Have you witnessed what a 208 A-Max does to Mule deer and Elk at extended ranges with a .300 Win Mag pushing it? I have, it's a very effective bullet. I wouldn't trust it point blank, especially with a Ultra Mag case behind it. In close it acts just like a SST at higher velocities, a very effective rockchuck/varmint bullet and thats it.

The Manufacturer.. Hornady.. still does not recommend them for hunting.. just stating a fact. People should be aware as you just mentioned in your example that only in certain calibers/velocities is it truely effective as a hunting bullet.

The average Joe would probably be traumatized at what I would take on with a .223 and a 60gr Nosler Partition. 

[BULLBLASTER]

i took my gun apart last night and looked at what is needed for the wyatts install, doesnt look too bad if one has the correct tools. could probably be done with a dremel but i will have it done right. seems a smith would really not be thinking to not machine the action for the shell to come up and be grabbed by the bolt.

[PA BEN]

From what I see berger hybrid bullets for hunting are not out yet but coming soon.

[BULLBLASTER]

From what I see berger hybrid bullets for hunting are not out yet but coming soon.

that is true, but i saw what the 338 hybrids perform like on elk last fall and it is pretty impressive. i also saw a study on longrangehunting or snipershide where a person cut a 210 hunting vld and a 215 hybrid and measured jacked thickness and they were exactly teh same thickness. kind of like using the a-max or SMK for hunting... not advertised for that but works pretty dang well.

[BULLBLASTER]

I dropped my sendero at the smith for the Wyatt's box install and bedding job last weekend. Said a few weeks. I also re did my test loads to the new may length. 3.79 I think. There is still room to go longer but ill try there first. Also loaded some 210 to that length also. Can't wait to shoot!

[BULLBLASTER]

Old thread alert! Wanted.to update. I have been playing with the 215 hybrids for a couple months and found a load that works very well in my gun. It is 90.2 grains retumbo and coal of 3.800 this has just a bit of clearance in the Wyatt's box (thanks again biggerhammer!) and shoots really well. My last group at 220 yards was 4 shots in 0.7 inches. I was also able to stretch out the range some. I could hold sub moa to 875. And it was shifting winds. Elevation differences were very small. According to my ballistic calculator and confirmed drops to 875 I am seeing muzzle velocity of 2930. I can't chrono because my dad was playing with Sabot .223 bullets in his 308 and the Sabot from one hit and ruined our chrono...    I am very excited to keep shooting this and hunt elk and bear with it this fall!

[Biggerhammer]

Great, good to hear it's working out for you, gives you plenty of time to be comfortable with the combo at distance before the up coming season. I hate last minute rifle assembly and being pressed for time when it comes to real world load dope.