Reloading Issue. Won't Crimp before crushing

[addicted]

I'm trying to learn to reload with some guidence from my father in law and i've come accross an issue that we arent sure of.

The bullets wont crimp in place even if i turn the die down far enough to start crushing the neck. 

The neck starts to crush as pictured below and the bullet can still be slid in and out. 



So turn the die out, nothing happens. Turn the die in, the neck/shoulder start to deform, and the bullet still loose.

[huntinguy]

yep, what he said...

what is the size of the expander? what is the size of the bullet?

Need some details here.

The crimp part is in the die not the seater plug. (but, you knew that.)

[BOWHUNTER45]

Do not adjust the seater die against the shell holder ...I always run the shell holder up to the die using the handle on your press then screw in the die until it touches the shell holder then back it off about 1/4 to a 1/2 of a turn ... that should work for ya ! I never crimp my bullets ...they always shoot better /// 

[Biggerhammer]

You resized the brass first? You shouldn't need to crimp rifle cartridges. Bullet should be fairly tight when seating it. How many times has the brass been loaded?

 

Rather confusing? If the brass was properly full length resized, your neck tension will hold the bullet properly. There is absolutely no need for a crimp esspecialy on that size of a cartridge and no canular to boot? Make sure your brass is properly sized, put a empty case in your shell holder run it to the top o the stroke, then screw your seating die down untill it makes contact with the case shoulder. Back it off a bit and proceed with setting your overall s length and bullet seating depth from there. Ditch the whole crimp idea!

[carpsniperg2]

Funky, are your cases trimmed to the right length? The only time I have had cases crush or dent on me was when I hit a bag of factory brass from winchester that was way way to long. That would be my only  to help you out. Nothing else is popping into my brain right now. Love the ct's Have to love Nosler

[bullcanyon]

Used dies? I bought a set of dies off ebay and the guy had switched the guts out of them.  Make sure the case is getting resized properly.

[BOWHUNTER45]

L IKE YOUR CHOICE ON POWDER

[Biggerhammer]

L IKE YOUR CHOICE ON POWDER

If those are .308 Winchesters, he should be stuffing them with Varget!

[addicted]

I wasnt planning on using that powder, just need a backdrop to the kitched.

expander is .321 and bullets are .338.

I resized and trimmed(skimmed) to length. This is brass first time reloaded, factory shot ammo.



I just used the seater to push the bullet down to good COL and it stopped crushing but i can still move the bullet with my fingers.

[Biggerhammer]

I wasnt planning on using that powder, just need a backdrop to the kitched.

expander is .321 and bullets are .338.

I resized and trimmed(skimmed) to length. This is brass first time reloaded, factory shot ammo.



I just used the seater to push the bullet down to good COL and it stopped crushing but i can still move the bullet with my fingers.

Process of elimination leaves only the full length sizer die suspect? Somthing is strangely afoot with the die.

[addicted]

so they didnt get resized squarely?

[Biggerhammer]

so they didnt get resized squarely?

Are you completely full length sizing, cramming over? Or are you just sizing the neck?

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Sounds like a problem with the die,  usually you raise the ram fully and screw the die  till is touches the shell holder, then back out one full turn.  Is the die new?
Also you dont wanna crimp bullets like that unless there is a crimping groove, it will damage the bullet.

Lookin at the picture more something is wrong with the size of the neck.  It appears the bullet is to large?  Are you running the empty shell into the seating die before you try and seat the bullet?

[huntinguy]

expander is .321 and bullets are .338.

.017 difference? That could be the problem. You should only have .002 at the most .004. I think the bullets could be doing the crushing and that would also explain the slip fit after.

[Biggerhammer]

expander is .321 and bullets are .338.

.017 difference? That could be the problem. You should only have .002 at the most .004. I think the bullets could be doing the crushing and that would also explain the slip fit after.

I think your on to something.

[JimmyHoffa]

I'm not seeing a cannelure in that picture.  If there is no cannelure on the bullet, I've yet to get a roll crimp to NOT crush the shoulder. 

[Helix]

Non canneluerd boolitz can't take much of a crimp before they do this. had this prob when I started loading 300 win mag. Back your crimp off till its just barely touching. Other than that i'd say you might have the wrong expander in your sizer.

[Gutpile]

 

Non canneluerd boolitz can't take much of a crimp before they do this. had this prob when I started loading 300 win mag. Back your crimp off till its just barely touching. Other than that i'd say you might have the wrong expander in your sizer.

[addicted]

I think i measured teh wrong part of the expander bell.

I think i figured it out.  I read the directions wrong since as you can see i was also trying to crimp. 

I just seated one with no problems and it feels like it is sticking good.



I'm using my father in laws equipment and it is definately a learning experience. Now I know i definately want a turret press and a digital scale.

So i botched the crushing by trying to crimp something thats not supposed be crimped and i set up the resizer wrong hence the bullet not holding in place. I think i've got it squared away now so I resized them all again and i'll start again in the morning.

[FALFire]

Insert an empty resized case into the shell holder, run your ram full up, screw the seater die body down until it just touches the case mouth then back it off one full turn. Lock it in place then run your seater stem down till you get your desired Over All Length (OAL)

Be sure to back your seating die body off at least one full turn from the point when it touches the case mouth. This will prevent any cases that are not trimmed exactly the same as the others from bumping into the crimping portion and creating a bulged shoulder.

[JackOfAllTrades]

Every bit of advice for how to set the die here is spot on...  But if this was a 30-30 or 35rem meant for a lever gun, what would any of you have sugested?

-Steve

[Biggerhammer]

Every bit of advice for how to set the die here is spot on...  But if this was a 30-30 or 35rem meant for a lever gun, what would any of you have sugested?

-Steve

Almost all the bullets that are used for lever guns have a canular and you crimp. You can look at the bullets originally pictured and can tell its not for a lever gun and if it was, it would possibly be one heck of a learning expirience.

[addicted]

do you guys think that IMR 4831 would do good? haven't seen it on any load data for this cartridge yet?

338federal btw.

[JimmyHoffa]

Every bit of advice for how to set the die here is spot on...  But if this was a 30-30 or 35rem meant for a lever gun, what would any of you have sugested?

-Steve

If it's a tubular magazine I'd say crimp.  So either find a bullet that is cannelured or find a way to radially crimp.  If it is a lever like a savage 99 or a blr, then load how you would anything other.  For the solid lead straight walled cartridges, you can crimp, but not really needed seeing as when you bell the case mouth the seating die closes it up and the lead makes it pretty tight.

[Biggerhammer]

do you guys think that IMR 4831 would do good? haven't seen it on any load data for this cartridge yet?

338federal btw.

I haven't seen it listed.

http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=552

[fremont]

Don't seat & crimp in single step.  Seat, then crimp.  And, use a Lee Factory Crimp Die, not the roll or taper crimp that comes with your seater die.  Best $10 you'll ever spend if your heart's set on crimping.

[addicted]

now that i've got them to stick i'm not trying to crimp but thanks for the advice for sure.

[mazama]

Assuming you have right dies get your reloading book out and read the procedure until you fully understant it,you should have a good reloading book or several because there are many problems that can come up in reloading over 40 yrs i have had many issues come up-but from reading your post you either didnot size the case or you seated the bullet to deep or wrong dies.

[BOWHUNTER45]

expander is .321 and bullets are .338.

.017 difference? That could be the problem. You should only have .002 at the most .004. I think the bullets could be doing the crushing and that would also explain the slip fit after.

I think your on to something.

Big Hammer I believe your on to something too !!! i wish we could see a little more of that on your profile picture