2012 western archery

[RUTNBULL1]

Again I am guessing but, The rifle hunters have never had the rut to hunt for elk, there is a very good reason for this, it would kill to many bulls. none of the elk sates have a general season durring the elk rut. I could be wrong but as messed up as our game department is, I dont see them giving this to them

Wrongway-States" none of the elk states have general season during the elk rut", WRONG! There are some States that have some General Seasons right with in the Prime of the rut. They just manage them more appropriately and with some common sense.  And they have the animals to be able to allow this. Just be thankful that this State hasn't tried doing this for the MF general seasons, we wouldn't have any elk left...

[wrongway]

Mossback, I agree with you, what states have a general season for elk, just woundering.

[Fullabull]

Here are some other states seasons:
Colorado:
Archery - Elk Aug. 27-Sept. 25
Muzzy - Elk Sept. 10-18 (by draw only)
Riffle - Elk  1st season Oct. 15-19, 2nd season Oct. 22-30 3rd season Nov. 5-13 (I have been in CO during the first two seasons and getting elk to respond to good calling is not a problem ( I took 4 bulls in 5 years hunting rifle here because of calling and elk still rutting.

Idaho:
Archery - Elk - Aug 30 - Sep 30 (this is for most units)
Any Weapon- Elk - Various start dates in Oct depending on unit Oct. 1st - 10th -15th and 25th seem to be the majority of the start dates. Wow...archery and any weapon during prime rutting dates!!!

Oregon:
Archery - Elk - Aug 25 – Sept 23
General - Elk - Various start dates in Oct and Nov depending on area Oct. 13th - 24th (still in the late rut) and then early Nov for the rest. All dates are for 2012, wow OR is on top of things.

Wyoming:
Archery - Elk _ Sept 1st through the 30th
General Season - Elk - Oct 16th seems to be the prominent starting date (still in the late rut)

Montana:
Archery - Elk - Sept. 3rd through the 16th and back country hunts are Sept 3rd through the 14th
General - Elk - Oct. 22 through Nov. 27th (long season) Back Country hunt Sept. 15th through Nov 27th (wow, rifle during the Prime rut)

I could go on but in general, most other states granted have more elk but you can also hunt with multiple weapons (you do not have to select your weapon). Most of these states archers actually get to have some time during the prime rut and most general season hunters also get some time to hunt during prime second rut periods!

[AKBowman]

All of this talk about "prime rut"...what do you guys consider prime rut and for which side of the state.

3 yrs hunting the west side I have hit the rut good the middle of Sept 2 yrs and didn't hear more than 5 bugles all season one year.

I would say prime time to hunt the rut would be pre-rut/rut which seems to fall around the 10th of Sept.

Prime time would be Sept 10-30 if I had a choice

[BowBender87]

All of this talk about "prime rut"...what do you guys consider prime rut and for which side of the state.

3 yrs hunting the west side I have hit the rut good the middle of Sept 2 yrs and didn't hear more than 5 bugles all season one year.

I would say prime time to hunt the rut would be pre-rut/rut which seems to fall around the 10th of Sept.

Prime time would be Sept 10-30 if I had a choice

I think the trick is to just get to the elk before anyone else a chance to mess with them...this year the bulls were going crazy the first 4 days of season where i was hunting.....then after that nuthing much happend.

[AKBowman]

Bowbender, I would agree exactly with your statement. I think I might just hunt the entire early season this yr!

I like that plan

[wrongway]

AKBowman the "RUT" from what I have understud is last week of sep to the secound week of OTC. There is a lot of pre rut going on befor this, lots of calling, gathering of cows buy the smaller bulls, but it does not heat up till end of sep with the bulls wanting to fight and bread the cows. This is why the states dont let the rifle hunted in most states hunt before the 16th of Otc. and back to the original question at the start about the game department letting the rifle hunters hunt bulls in sep this will never happen, looking at what fullofbull posted no other state lets any othe state hunt general rifle in sep.

[BowBender87]

Bowbender, I would agree exactly with your statement. I think I might just hunt the entire early season this yr!

I like that plan

  if i had to choose only one week off during early archery it would be the opening week no doubt.  Most people take the later and i uderstand there logic..but ive just had more luck the first few days of season then the last few

[Fullabull]

The first few days are always the best here because they have not been pressured yet. That is why it gets slow and quiet after that. But later in the month of sept and the first week or so fo Oct they are rutting pretty hard. You should go out during that time and see the difference.

I have seen it only twice here in WA when they were starting to rut pretty hard when we were still hunting to the 21st or so. I had bulls responding to me every time I went out for last few days, it was great. If I had a special draw MF tag I wouldn't have a problem tagging out.

If you look at my last poste you will see that most other states allow archers to hunt through the end of Sept because they have the most difficult hunt, meaning it is hard to get within 40 yards of your target. Everyone I know who hunts early modern in other states all have bulls still responding to calling. That is a HUGE advantage when hunting with a rifle that reaches out hundreds of yards!

I understand why here in WA they do not have general hunting with MF during Oct because they would decimate the elk. Letting archery hunters hunt later into Sept will not decimate the elk and will allow archery hunters to experience a little of of the rut which they should because of the style of hunt they choose.

If MF hunters want to experience the rut they should change to archery and see how easy (NOT) it is to hunt during the rut with a bow. As it is now, the only people who get to hunt the prime rut here in WA are special draw MF hunters...There are no special draw archery tags that hunt during prime rut!!! I really do not understand that at all! Maybe they need to make the second half of Sept. a special draw hunt for about half the normal archery hunters.

Thoughts?

[WSU]

Having switched to archery the last 3 years, I was very surprised at just how hard it really is.  Locating elk is easy.  It seems that I am in elk nearly every day.  Getting a clean shot is entirely different.  You don't really understand how difficult it is to get a clear shot at something under 40 or 50 yards standing broadside/quarting away without bushes in the way and with the critter holding still.  I've been in bow range over a dozen times and have yet to fling an arrow.  Rifle hunters who haven't bow hunted simply don't understand the difficulty.  I know I didn't.  Point is, I'd like to see some statistics that support the contention bow hunters would kill too many bulls if they get a couple days on the end of the season.

[AKBowman]

Wrongway- like Fulla said this state ALREADY allows MF guys to hunt during the rut though not on an OTC tag still they are the only user group with a "prime rut" elk season. That is just WRONG.

The big problem I see with the shortened archery season is just that, it's getting shorter. We just cannot let the wdfw keep cutting our season back I've already noticed the difference in the four short years I've ben hunting here.

They keep stealing days from archery and giving them to MF in order to boost revenues in special draw apps. It will keep happening if we let it, support the groups whom are fighting for archers: WSAA, WBA and TBW

[dreamingbig]

Sep 8-21 was a great compromise that took years to achieve but then it was pulled out from under our feet in the last 3 year season setting process.  The reasons as I understand them were 1. our success rate was too high relative to other groups and 2. they needed to make room for the special permit season for modern firearm (read make more $$$) during the prime rut (something we were told we would never get as it would be too disruptive)

Bottom line is that we need to get the word out and fight for a return to the 8th to the 21st.  They are never going to give us the last 10 days of Sep.

[AKBowman]

8-21 sept would be ample opportunity. Let them rest the last 10 days of Sept so they can do their thing. WDFW has MF tags running from late Sept through the latter part of mid Jan!!!! IMO that much pressure in a herd will lead to depleted health in animals which leads to things like hoof rot.

[Fullabull]

The only reason archery would have a higher success rate is because we get to take cows in a lot of units. Higher success rate should never be the reason for changing seasons unless its way lopsided (like it is with permit hunts, take a look at the percentage differences there. It really shows how having a rifle makes a big difference). The real numbers for animals taken are way higher for MF than archery. They just start using percentage for everything and it's a bad way to manage. They say its not fare that archery has a higher success percentage during general season but why do they not talk about special permit seccess percentages? Talk about out of wack!!! They cut archery back and increased cow tags all over the place to control the population when archers would be happy to take a cow in a longer season. They also took away archery hunting for bulls during the late season in unit 520. How much more are they going to take away???

Sorry to keep hyping on this but I do not believe the WDFW is looking at this correctly!

[wrongway]

AKA lol we are on the same side just saying things two diffrent ways, I have been a member of the WSAA for 20 + years. I was not talking about the MF guys who gets a draw tags durring the rut, I feel we should let them have some tages durring this time, one to raise money for the fish and game dept, as well they should be able to hunt SOME bulls durring the rut. What I was saying is that we will never give the MF a general season durring the rut, cause like you said they would hurt the bull count in this state and that would not be good. you are right we are getting shorter seasons every year, heck we use to be able to hunt the first week of Otc for elk that was off the hook, only lasted a year or two before the MF guys yelled to loud. Trust me when I say the more our equipment gets better the more days we get cut back, if lighted knockes pass we are going to loose more days.