.45-70 lever action as bear defence?

[Knocker of rocks]

I think I really want one of these, specifically a Chiappa.  Does this seem like it would have enough umph as defense against a bear along Alaskan rivers?  I like the traditional look, but maybe an .308 AR with a bunch of clips would be better.


http://www.mkschiappa.com/MKS_Chiappa_rifles/Chiappa_1886_Kodiak_Traditional_Trapper.html

[carpsniperg2]

You don't want a 308 with a bunch of clips that's for sure. In a bad spot with a bear "when it would be legal and justified to use deadly force on them" You could not get off more then a couple shots anyways. Bears are very fast and will be on you quick. You need a gun with open sights ans big knock down. That 45-70 would work very well as one

[wraithen]

Thanks carp, you said what I wanted to only better  I would however change the rear sight to an aperture and maybe put a fiber optic bead up front. I'm not sure that I would leave those poor abandoned old ones crying themselves to sleep in pawn shops though.

[ArrowH]

You can pick up the marlin guide gun which has a stronger action for about a 1/3 the price. The concept behind that gun is for bear defense.

[FC]

A 45/70 with buffalo bore loads has it all over a 308 with ANY load!

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=35

I would go with either the 405gr or 500gr load.

[Knocker of rocks]

Thanks all!  How about their lever 12ga with slugs?  But that .45-70 sure looks cool.  My BIL is shopping for a .45-90 Sharps,  but I think that comes breach load

[carpsniperg2]

I know some guides up there that run 12g's. Most of the time they will have a mag extension and run like 4-5 slugs and the last couple #9 or #8 shot to try and blind the bear. Eyes on any animal are very sensitive and when you spray anything with lead pellets in the face and get the eyes its pretty much game over and you can get away.  Hard for a blind and bleeding bear to hunt you down is there motto. I don't know I think I would still be packing a big bore lover gun and probably my 454 casull as a 2nd in that country

[JimmyHoffa]

Thanks all!  How about their lever 12ga with slugs?  But that .45-70 sure looks cool.  My BIL is shopping for a .45-90 Sharps,  but I think that comes breach load

Your BIL could get one of the browning commeratives in .45-90 as a lever.  But I think they are only for blackpowder cartridges.  .45-70 would do in a bear fine.  The marlin can also use a .450 marlin which is pretty good for bears too.  Another option would be a revolver in .500 S&W.

[mtncook]

I love my Marlin 1895GS, which is the stainless .45-70 and 18 inch barrel.  The only drawback is the tube length just holds 4. I never have a chambered round while in my saddle scabboard.  However getting off more than the gun holds during a bear attack is not likely.  The time is very short and 2-3 might be all you get.   This alot of fun to shoot, the 400's are probably all you would need.


mtncook

[wadu1]

All the Canidian guides I know all use the Marlin 1895GS for Black Bear and Griz, some are going to the .416 Ruger.

[MikeWalking]

Before starting my string of Brooks Range trips that's just what I went looking for.  I went into one shop looking for a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun and found my 1895 LTD III.

Straight Stock.  18in Octagonal barrel & full length mag tube.  5+1 of Buffalo Bore.  I saw 8 Griz in 5 trips and only had one that made me put down the camera and pick it up.  At about 75 yards he finally figured out what was yelling at him and took off. The rest saw me across the tundra and ran like scalded cats, some did stop and pose a bit    If I had not followed my own rules about danger areas on one morning I might have had to shoot a Musk Ox. (side note: on that trip my Pilot had one client mauled, saved by Bear Spray near the Dalton and two old friends killed and fed on while floating the Hulahula S-happens)

I did pack an 1895gs for a few trips. I liked the fatter forearm (and not giving the Airlines a Limited Edition to lose)  With the kind of ammo you can get from Garret or Buffalo Bore I wasn't worried about one less round.  My choice was the Buffalo Bore 430gr Gas Check FN.   They will split a basketball size rock at 50+/-feet

[MikeWalking]

Having looked at the photo I strongly recommend the Marlin, only because it seems like it would be easier to put a good recoil pad on it.  With the kind of ammo you will want to carry you need one.  Buffalo Bore or Garret's hot stuff with that crescent metal butt plate, or Marlins plastic-rubber thingy will hurt so bad you may not get more than 2 rounds off.

If you go with Marlin go look at Wild West Guns in Anchorage.  The Happy Trigger Kit is a Must Have, other goodies for it too.

The Classic Trapper looks cool..  ouch $1395 at Gun Genie

I bought my 1895gs, put in the Happy Trigger, Heavy Mag Spring, Anodized Follower, Ghost ring Sight, Recoil Pad & Bead Blast for about $900 + some skin, polishing all the interior parts over a stack of Eastwood movies

[Knocker of rocks]

Any real advantage to a .444 or .450 Marlin over the .45 Government round?  I like the ability to have six shots, and the other rounds, along with the guide special have 4.

[MikeWalking]

Any real advantage to a .444 or .450 Marlin over the .45 Government round?  I like the ability to have six shots, and the other rounds, along with the guide special have 4.

um?  Not a lot I think.   Again with the stuff from Buffalo Bore and Garrett you get a major upgrade in power from standard 45-70, it's more powerful than standard .450 .457 Wild West Magnum (what Marlin took the .450 from)  I don't know what kind of higher performance stuff you can get in .444   You likely can get a longer tube and have it clamped to the barrel, with a heavier spring from Wolff.  Even when I took my 1895gs to Alaska with 4+1  I didn't worry about only having 5. 

Keep in mind the kind of ammo you can get from Garrett or BB has been known to shoot lengthwise through Cape Buffalo, breaking shoulder/hip joints  in one shot.


I think Marlin has a Cowboy model 45-70 that holds 9.

[high country]

I am going to be building a 45-70 takedown on a marlin soon. I will do a post on it at that time. It will allow one less bag for the airlines to lose.