.45-70 lever action as bear defence?

[BigGoonTuna]

They used to make that gun in the .450 Marlin.  Wonder why they aren't doing that anymore.  My guide buddy in BC absolutely loves his.  He's taken three grizzlies that I know of with his.

i believe that the .450 marlin is more or less a belted rimless .45-70, from the days before the hot "lever gun" loads where most .45-70 loadings were designed to be fired in trapdoor springfields.

[Bean Counter]

A griz can run at better than 50 fps. It ain't going to make a pinch of poop difference if you have 300 or 500 grains hitting it. You either wipe its computer out or wait the couple minutes for it to bleed out while crunching your corpse. There are plenty of guides who have killed bears with small handguns in bad situations and plenty of bears that soaked up a bunch of 416 rems too. When it comes to bear defense, just hang with a fat friend.....your odds are better.

.... So the attorney turns and says to the doctor "I don't have to out run the lion, I just have to outrun you!" 

[MikeWalking]

They used to make that gun in the .450 Marlin.  Wonder why they aren't doing that anymore.  My guide buddy in BC absolutely loves his.  He's taken three grizzlies that I know of with his.

i believe that the .450 marlin is more or less a belted rimless .45-70, from the days before the hot "lever gun" loads where most .45-70 loadings were designed to be fired in trapdoor springfields.

A little shop in Anchorage, Wild West Guns created a  wildcat, the .457 WW Magnum, a stretched out 45-70.   A couple years later Marlin pops up with the .450 Marlin  which is a .457 with a belt.  With the hot 45-70's now available the .450 kind of lost it's role.

[RadSav]

The .450 Marlin is basically a 458 Win short.  I think the original wildcat was called the 458X2 American.

[MDGrand]

Was in the market myself a while back and got this one for $300 bucks. I am more accurate with a fast shot from a carbine than with a hand gun.. and with this scope I can keep both eyes open.

Marlin 1895G, factory ported.

Put a Picatinny rail, Leupold VXR 1.5-4x20 and a wild west big loop lever. Next up is a pachmeyer pad and a duracoat job.

Shoots 325 grain Leverolution ammo at 1.5 MOA at 100 yards.

Just an AWESOME little carbine.

[birdwacker]

I had a stainless guide gun and it got the "Marlin  Jam" to many times so I traded it off .I would rather depend on a good defensive shotgun than my single shot marlin.

[MDGrand]

I had a stainless guide gun and it got the "Marlin  Jam" to many times so I traded it off .I would rather depend on a good defensive shotgun than my single shot marlin.

was it fairly new? Apparently the new Marlin's owned by Remington came out crappy. I looked into this heavily before purchasing and wanted an older Marlin for this reason. So far, heavy use.. no problems.

[MikeWalking]

I had a stainless guide gun and it got the "Marlin  Jam" to many times so I traded it off .I would rather depend on a good defensive shotgun than my single shot marlin.

Had that problem once.  Once.  I bought it in 2003?  It had some wicked tool marks in the carrier arm and I'm thinking the rim of one round got caught in one...

A stack of emery paper, 800-2000grit, some square blocks and some Clint Eastwood movies. I took the guts out and put a mirror finish on any part that moved against another. A light bevel/chamfer on others.  I added some other goodies at that time too.  It Cycled a hell of a lot better after that, much smoother too.

[KFhunter]

whatever gun your choosing just keep in mind how you'll do with a massive adreniline dump shutting down your fine motor skills.
 
low light?
gloves?
 
how about 1 armed with a bear chomping on your left arm? could you shoot it then?
 
just brain storming 

[MDGrand]

Low light....Leopold VXR

Gloves... Wild west big loop lever.

1 armed.... Game probably over then..

[MikeWalking]

whatever gun your choosing just keep in mind how you'll do with a massive adreniline dump shutting down your fine motor skills.
 
low light?
gloves?
 
how about 1 armed with a bear chomping on your left arm? could you shoot it then?
 
just brain storming 

If he's got your arm, you're dead...


One my first trip into the Brooks my Pilot laughed at my basketball sized first aid kit.  "Mike if you need more than a Band-aid you're gonna die"  "If a bear touches you you're gonna die" 

It never got dark....

The first Griz to lock eyes with me had some major adrenaline going through me no doubt (I peed about 6 times in the hour after he left, had just finished seconds before seeing him) Jumping to my rifle and levering in a round (had just cleaned it after a day hike) was no challenge.  Now, when he turned and started walking away,  holding the camera still was something different.

When in camp leave it on the tripod

[hillbilli]

I have the stainless guide gun, and I have good confidence in my loads, although I ought to get some different bullets in case we get a rogue elephant in the neighborhood.. if you use the lever, or the pump, in a dangerous game situation, make sure you have practices that fast second shot plenty.. the 12 GA works, its used by park rangers, etc in alaska for that purpose, but you'll note they use brenneke type sugs, not foster type for better penetration.. (oh and brenneke are available in 600gr) also check out 'Dixie slugs'  http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html
  can you say 730gr hard cast full diameter 12 ga?
Oh and just like when we hunted hogs at close quarters, have a sidearm that penetrates well that you are comfortable with..

[MikeWalking]

Hey hillbilli   Thanks for the Link.  Good Stuff.

[TwoSixFourWins]

45-70 is a great round and there are a few gunsmithing companies that will take a marlin and do all kinds of things to improve it as bear defense....like shorten barrel, put ghost ring sights on, put in a one piece extractor (though i have never had issues with my factory extractor), put on slightly larger lever loops (not that giant looped cowboy wannabe stuff) . The 45-70 has plenty of power especially in a marlin. I don't recall where i read it but about 2 years ago i read an article about a guy taking a marlin 45-70 for cape buffalo with excellent results. If it will kill one of those things it will sure as shootin get a bear's attention. Not to mention the 45-70 being responsible for thousands of Bison kills in the days of black powder.

[MikeWalking]

The Buffalo Bore web site has a page of testimonial from customers.  There have been many big critters taken in Africa with their 45-70 ammo.

Garrett has had theirs take down Cape Buffalo, breaking the shoulder going in and shattering the hip at the other corner.

My 1895LTD III was far far smoother than the 1895gs I bought later. Looked like black glass inside and out.   When I sold the 1895gs I took all the custom goodies out and put them in the LTD with another mag spring.  My eyes like the open buck horn sight better than the ghost ring I had.