Neuter him or keep tryin?

[Fowlweather25]

So I have a 2 year old black lab. He is an amazing waterfowl dog. He came out of sunnyview kennels in rainier Oregon. I have bred him once and we got seven great and gorgeous pups out of him. Lately I've been advertising him quite a bit, including through the classifieds on hunt-WA. But no takers. Everyone that knows him loves him and his puppies are amazing! What should I do? I don't want him to stay intact forever but I was hoping to get least two or 3 litters out of him before we neutered him.

[Dhoey07]

Get some of his swimmers frozen and preserved.  I've heard of people doing this for show dogs.  Probably a little spendy but something to look in to

[seth30]

I have heard that dogs that are neutered after they have done the deed have anger issues.   Not sure if thats true or not. 

[Stilly bay]

neuter him, there are enough Lab pups in this world and I don't foresee any shortage in the near future. unless you plan on getting some genetic testing, hunt and or field trial titles that prove his "Load"  is a worthy improvement to the breed.

[Rick]

Don't take this as a slam against you because I feel the same way about all backyard breeders.

IMO,unless you're trying to better the breed,you have no business breeding dogs.

Get him neutered.

[Happy Gilmore]

You can have him collected...probably less than a few hundred bucks. Storage of semen varies but, I want to say it was something like $70 a year? Not positive on that though....

Thing to remember, AI (artificial insemination) will cost the owner of the bitch around $1K......

For the cost....better be something really special and have every health clearance under the sun.

Why don't you give  Butch a call and see what he thinks?

[Fowlweather25]

neuter him, there are enough Lab pups in this world and I don't foresee any shortage in the near future. unless you plan on getting some genetic testing, hunt and or field trial titles that prove his "Load"  is a worthy improvement to the breed.

I don't give two craps about improving the breed! One breeder isn't gonna do that. I care about his disposition and learnability as a hunting dog. Which he is amazing with both. Hence the reason I said I only wanted a couple litters out of him. A dog doesn't need to compete to be a good dog IMO. But he needs to hunt!

[singleshot12]

neuter him, there are enough Lab pups in this world and I don't foresee any shortage in the near future. unless you plan on getting some genetic testing, hunt and or field trial titles that prove his "Load"  is a worthy improvement to the breed.

  And besides that 18 months to 2 years old is the best time to neuter males anyways 

[Fowlweather25]

Don't take this as a slam against you because I feel the same way about all backyard breeders.

IMO,unless you're trying to better the breed,you have no business breeding dogs.

Get him neutered.

backyard breeder?

So in order to breed quality dogs I have to have a kennel and start a puppy mill? Hmmm interesting. So you'll never buy a dog unless it comes from a kennel? I guess a lot of people pay more for the name

[Stilly bay]

neuter him, there are enough Lab pups in this world and I don't foresee any shortage in the near future. unless you plan on getting some genetic testing, hunt and or field trial titles that prove his "Load"  is a worthy improvement to the breed.

I don't give two craps about improving the breed! One breeder isn't gonna do that. I care about his disposition and learnability as a hunting dog. Which he is amazing with both. Hence the reason I said I only wanted a couple litters out of him. A dog doesn't need to compete to be a good dog IMO. But he needs to hunt!

one breeder CAN do that and one breeder can also help to ruin it. that attitude is why we have so many labs that go blind early in life, or that bad hips and elbows. and with out hunt test or field trial titles there is no way to PROVE the ability of your dogs other than going off your word.

a responsible breeder that doesn't want the "backyard breeder" label would at the very least get the minimum health clearances checked on the parents.

Im not slamming you or your dog. I am questioning backyard breeding ethics and questioning the need for more lab pups with possible health issues. this will ultimately determine you and your dogs reputation.

you asked for opinions on wether or not you should neuter your dog, don't put your blinders on when someone gives you a solid reason you don't want to hear.

[Fowlweather25]

How do you know I don't have Him certified on his eyes elbows and hips through OFA? He is and without you knowing that called me a backyard breeder! Sorry but I think a lot of people would take offense to that! Maybe you shouldve asked.  i agree that there are too many people throwing bad lines around but I'm not one of them and if you knew anything about sunny view kennels you would know they produce champion dogs! Not trying to be an azz but you should ask someone's credibility before jumping to conclusions!

[Rick]

 I don't give two craps about improving the breed!

Thats what I figured.

[Happy Gilmore]

How do you know I don't have Him certified on his eyes elbows and hips through OFA? He is and without you knowing that called me a backyard breeder! Sorry but I think a lot of people would take offense to that! Maybe you shouldve asked.  i agree that there are too many people throwing bad lines around but I'm not one of them and if you knew anything about sunny view kennels you would know they produce champion dogs! Not trying to be an azz but you should ask someone's credibility before jumping to conclusions!

Most of the time people are likely to assume you haven't done OFA, PRA, EIC, CERF and CNM all tested if you don't advertise it. If you have results on all of the above, he shows great qualities in hunting or competition and he has a nice pedigree, people are more likely to become interested. Having a stud "fee" without every single above listed test at $600-700 is completely unreasonable. I can get a stud lab who has been tested for all of the above with all positive results who has FT titles for $500-700.

If the only thing which has been tested is OFA, that is good but, you're leaving a lot to be desired.

Sunnyview Kennels (The Weiners recently convicted of poaching in MT) in Salem......Parkdale, Butch Higgins is in Rainier...(why I mentioned Butch)

Not sure which breeder you meant you got them from but, I know dogs in both of those lines are disposed to being carriers of EIC and CNM. If you don't "care" about those tests and feel that by breeding a couple dogs without that testing, It can be assumed you sort of fit into the mold of what folks call a "backyard breeder"

If you are interested in putting your dog out to stud, it should at minimum be for a good reason....his health is great, his hunting abilites are outstanding, his personality is awesome etc. I get that and don't see anything wrong with breeding a dog with those good qualities...if and only if you have done due diligence to make sure you're not putting out a bunch of dogs who will end up with bad health issues.

I don't know what you have tested for but, you did ask why/what you should do and you got some answers like them or not. Not trying to sound rude but, your comment stating you don't think you'll change anything with one breeding is really a poor thing to say when you're trying to promote your dog. Just sayin'..

[87Ford]

I don't give two craps about improving the breed!

That kinda says it all right there..

[Stilly bay]

your right, my apologies for assuming you didn't get the proper health tests taken care of. I wonder if it was your statement about not giving two craps that drew me to my foolish conclusion.

a responsible breeder that doesn't want the "backyard breeder" label would at the very least get the minimum health clearances checked on the parents.

Im not slamming you or your dog. I am questioning backyard breeding ethics and questioning the need for more lab pups with possible health issues. this will ultimately determine you and your dogs reputation.

 you could also say I was accusing you of being a responsible breeder as easily as a backyard breeder you chose the latter rather than the former.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

This is what a stud dog add selling services will look like......just an FYI if you want to try and have some success with "breeding"

NAFC-FC Cody Cuts a Lean Grade "Grady" (Black-BY Male)
AKC: #SR16082601
OFA Hips: Good #LR159258G24M-PI
OFA Elbows: Normal #LR-EL30615M24-PI
CERF: Normal #LR-52237/2008
EIC: Clear
CNM: Clear
Weight: 78#
2011 National Amateur Champion
2008 High Point Open Dog
Qualified for 11 consecutive Nationals
Sired 2010 and 2011 High Point Derby Dogs

[Fowlweather25]

As far as me saying I don't give a crap about improving the breed I meant that I am less apt to look at a dog for what they have won than for what they can do. I understand that it's proof but that being said ive seen a lot of dogs and horses that were utterly amazing without there being proof until they gave you proof! I understand that OFA is a minimum that being said it's better than nothing. And as far as the stud fee that is based off of what his last litter was sold for per pup. We ask for the price of one pup for a fee. The point I'm trying to make is I did ask for opinions, I didn't ask to be insulted.

[Happy Gilmore]

As far as me saying I don't give a crap about improving the breed I meant that I am less apt to look at a dog for what they have won than for what they can do. I understand that it's proof but that being said ive seen a lot of dogs and horses that were utterly amazing without there being proof until they gave you proof! I understand that OFA is a minimum that being said it's better than nothing. And as far as the stud fee that is based off of what his last litter was sold for per pup. We ask for the price of one pup for a fee. The point I'm trying to make is I did ask for opinions, I didn't ask to be insulted.

I understand about looking at qualities other than titles. I did it myself with my female. I picked a stud who didn't have titles but, a solid pedigree and he was a hunting machine. He did however have all his health clearances done.

Just doing OFA and selling pups for $600.....well...... I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. Especially if you don't know first hand about the parents on both sides and what their breeding carries....like the EIC, CNM and PRA.

[Fowlweather25]

The female that we bred him to belongs to our very good friends. So as far as she goes we were set. Her parents belonged to family of our friends. As far as breeding to a new female thats a different story. We would be asking some questions. But if you look at labs 600 CAN be on the low end I would be very wary of buying one cheaper than that. maybe that's just me.

[Happy Gilmore]

The female that we bred him to belongs to our very good friends. So as far as she goes we were set. Her parents belonged to family of our friends. As far as breeding to a new female thats a different story. We would be asking some questions. But if you look at labs 600 CAN be on the low end I would be very wary of buying one cheaper than that. maybe that's just me.

Well, if OFA is all you've done, to be really blunt, you're breeding pups which should sell in the $300 range.

What testing have both of the parents had?