Proposed Legislation: Discover Pass Fine $

[bigtex]

Well in a year where it seems like every state rep has their own Discover Pass bill Senator Ranker has one that is different then the others. Other bills change where the pass is needed or how many vehicles can use that one pass. SB 6387 is actually related to the fine associated with not displaying the pass.

Many people assume that the agency that writes citations gets the fine money, with state agencies that is mostly false. For example the only fine $ WDFW gets are the fines associated with the unlawful take of big game animals. In all other cases the $ goes to the county or the state general fund.

With the Discover Pass and WDFW Vehicle Use Permit fines 32% are sent to the state general fund and the county keeps the rest.

What SB 6387 does is make 100% of the fine money go into the Recreation Access Pass Account which is the same place that the fees for purchasing the Discover Pass goes. So what this does is increase the size of the Recreation Access Pass Account meaning more $ can be sent to DNR, WDFW, Parks. However this does not change the 84% Parks, 8% DNR, 8% WDFW make up of the account.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/Senate/6387%20SBR%20ENRM%2012.pdf

[bigtex]

Thought this would bring more discussion.....

[bobcat]

I think there's no question about this one. Definitely should pass. But since it makes sense, it probably won't would be my guess.

[ICEMAN]

Thought this would bring more discussion.....

Personally, I am just against the pass in the first place, am really tired of hearing about all the vultures circling my wallet trying to get to my last few bucks,..... so I cannot get really excited over any changes with the status qou on it... I cannot muster the care about where the money goes since I do not agree with the pass in principle.

[bobcat]

Iceman,

Could you get behind the pass if it was no longer required on DNR lands by those with hunting licenses (which I think is proposed by one of the bills being considered right now)

[sebek556]

I'm with iceman, I cant get excited or ever really care to much, most of the money does not go to places I use when/if I buy a pass

[ICEMAN]

I am probably too stubborn to get behind it at all, to be honest with you. I just am opposed to pay to play on land I already own and already have paid for for years.

How about going back and determining how much my sports dollars have contributed in years past, and charging all those who now want to enjoy the woods that amount?

Look how fish licenses built boat ramps. Gamies would ticket those without a pass... My logic may be flawed but I am just opposed to a new fee of any kind on sportsmen who have paved all these roads for everyone else to enjoy. Now they want to charge everyone for entry. Sportsment should be absolved from paying fees for the woods, irregarldess of which government entity takes ownership for it. This has already been argued ad nauseum....

[Special T]

My feelings are much like icemans on this one... I HATE the DP, I would likely get one IF it shared money 3 ways for the different agencies EQUALLY! But that kinda defets the point of it doesn't it? State need $$$ for parks so they are gona take it from people that utilize it least...
Maybe if i was a fisherman i might use the parks more, however since i'm not i could care less about the parks. My idea of a good time is going into the woods and NOT seeing people... I took my wife and kid to a state park with the trailer in an estabished spot... I personally didn't like it, too many people. But then again I  PAYED $$$ to do it... If the parks want to be relevant what they need to do is make MORE RV spots! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to increase rev for the park, they just don't want to do it... Ever tried to make a reservation for an RV spot at a WA park? Get on the list! 

[jackmaster]

i am all for it if people with a hunting or fishing license dont have to buy one, i think its time for the photographers and mountain bikers and 4x4ers and anyone else that use the land that we hunt on and try are best to keep clean, they need to pay up as well and i beleve this would fix that, but like i said only if hunters and fishers dont have to buy one...

[grundy53]

No matter where you put it it's going to get pilfered anyways.....

[fireweed]

This bill could just encourage DNR, Park, and WDFW law enforcement to write more tickets.  I can see it  now, pulling over people to check for a DP which by the current law is required WHILE DRIVING.  I think we are stuck with the pass and after listening in on the current bills, and the crying and whining from the Park Dept. about how they couldn't afford any price reductions or hunter-exemptions I think that the only improvement we will see is two cars instead of one.  Personally I like the bill that limits the DP to developed sites on DNR land (not wide open timberland).  That way, if you use a DNR campground or picnic area you need one, but if you are just driving or hunting you don't.  Easier to enforce, safer,  not exemptions for tribal hunters, loggers etc. ( The DNR has to hand out lots of free passes now because of all the people who have business/tribal rights on DNR land).  This change (limiting to developed sites) could be DNR policy w/o a law change....but you know that won't happen.

[sakoshooter]

I would vote for it but I also think that the distribution percentages of the pass fee should change. Lots of hunters and fishermen are paying for parks they'll never use.

[norsepeak]

I'm with Iceman, the state is breaking the law with the DP, so I couldn't care less about anything related to it.  The state won't be getting a dime out me for a DP.

[Machias]

Iceman for Governor!

[Muskrat]

This article is in no way intended to hijack thisd thread, but does have some significant
relation to it. My posting of this is to generate some thought by Discover Pass and State Park users. This article was sent to the Washington State Parks Headquarters after I returned from my hunting trip to GMU 101.

I am a 74 year old disabled combat veteran of the Vietnam war. I hold
a Washington State Parks Disabled Veterans Lifetime Pass.

After many months of planning  a hunting trip to NE Washington, and a stay at
Curlew State Park, I was startled to find out that I could not stay in
the same space as my disabled partner, who also holds a lifetime pass, without
paying the extra vehicle fee. Herein lies, in my opinion, an inequity in the
system. Allow me to explain:

     Before leaving, and driving the 341 miles from Olympia to Curlew, I
wanted to make sure that my old Lifetime Pass was still current. I was
informed by a person  at the State Parks Headquarters,  that indeed
my pass was still good. I also asked if it allowed me to stay in the same space as my  partner. When I addressed the issue of the $10.00 fee for an extra vehicle, I
was told that if there was a problem, just select another space and there would
not be a fee charged. I was told to check with the Park Ranger upon arrival, and
he would confirm this.

     Upon arrival, I checked in with the Ranger. He confirmed that I could
park my vehicle (a pickup) and stay in the same space as my partner with no
extra vehicle fee.

 

     The next day, the "Camp Host" came by and told me that I owed a $10.00 fee for parking the extra vehicle. The conflict began, and I told him I had a
Lifetime Pass to use the park without any charge. He told me that the pass did
not cover the extra vehicle. He then presented his Lifetime Pass and read off
the back of it. It stated "Disabled Veteran pass does not allow no fee parking
of extra vehicle", or words to that affect. I told him that my pass did not have that
statement on it, and furthermore, The Park Ranger said I was OK to double up with my
partner since we both had disabled passes. 

     He told me no, you will have to pay the fee if you stay in the space. I told
him, that I would just move across the street to one of the $31.00 a night spaces.
I told him that I was going to be there for 10 days, and that would be a loss of $310.00 for the State because it could not be rented to anyone else. He said if I did, then I would have to sleep in my truck. Upon hearing this absurdity, I told him I was not moving unless "The Park Ranger" ordered me to move. He said he would talk to "The Ranger". "Ranger" arrived  the next day, and told me he had made a mistake in telling me that I could double up in the space with no fee.

    The  Ranger  stated since there was a conflict in what I was told, and my pass
did not say I had to pay, he would allow me to stay in the space with no charge. I stayed for 9 days, and had a wonderful trip and even hung my deer in the park.
 

In conclusion, I feel that changes need to be made in the system. If I have a Lifetime Pass that allows me to stay in State Parks without any fees, then the pass should be modified to eliminate the statement mentioned above off the Host Pass. If that is not possible, then new passes should be issued to all Disabled Veterans, and the information on the Parks Home Page in the internet should be so changed to reflect that Disabled Veterans cannot use the pass to park extra vehicles without fees.

I have purchased the new Discovery Pass, which in my opinion should be at a reduced fee for disabled veterans, and I have donated $5.00 to the Parks when renewing my vehicle license tabs. I think I saved the State Parks $310.00 by not parking in a $31.00 a night camping space. That space was full everyday I was there. I fully understand the reasoning for the extra vehicle charge. I am sure it would get real congested without it. In these tough economic  times, I think it behooves us all to try and save the State in anyway we can, and that includes relooking at some old policies and making tough decisions."

In all fairness to the State Parks, they have stated they will use my situation as a training tool to train their Rangers and Camp Hosts. The problem I see is that they have not changed the rules yet.

Before I drive the 381 miles from Olympia this year, I am going to challenge them again.

Thank for allowing me the post. Muskrat
 

 

[Elkaholic daWg]

 It's things like that where I strongly disagree with many  about giving all agency enforcers full authority. So muskrat could get a citation of infraction. If  he does, he is either forced to pay or drive 750 miles to defend himself in Republic. What other choice does he have, thanks to big brothers appetite for$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Curly]

This bill could just encourage DNR, Park, and WDFW law enforcement to write more tickets.  I can see it  now, pulling over people to check for a DP which by the current law is required WHILE DRIVING.  I think we are stuck with the pass and after listening in on the current bills, and the crying and whining from the Park Dept. about how they couldn't afford any price reductions or hunter-exemptions I think that the only improvement we will see is two cars instead of one.  Personally I like the bill that limits the DP to developed sites on DNR land (not wide open timberland).  That way, if you use a DNR campground or picnic area you need one, but if you are just driving or hunting you don't.  Easier to enforce, safer,  not exemptions for tribal hunters, loggers etc. ( The DNR has to hand out lots of free passes now because of all the people who have business/tribal rights on DNR land).  This change (limiting to developed sites) could be DNR policy w/o a law change....but you know that won't happen.

I agree with this entire post, but the part I bolded I especially like.

I hate the fact that the State Parks dept has been so mis-managed over the years that they have to come-up with this DP b.s. to try to stay afloat.  I think State Parks dept needs to figure out another method to make it work out.  There has to be more personnel cuts they can make and other things they can do instead of taking 84% of the DP revenue.

[Special T]

Well here in lies the major part of the problem. camping spaces make $$$ Parks that do not have camping spaces cost lots of $$$. Not all parks are created equal. There are several in E-WA that are very good because they get heavy use in the spring-summer and then close down for the fall-winter. They have lower overhead and generate more cash to support themselves. I don't necessarily think its mismanagement as much as trying to do too much with less resources. The state needs to trim the number of state parks to the ones that are cost effective, and-or find a way to make expensive parks pay. If there is a park that could generate more revenue by adding more camping spaces THEN DO IT! They aren't that expensive to make, and people are willing to pay to park their trailer there... I know that the Wa parks is trying to preserve the parks, but if no one is able to enjoy them, then what good is it to preserve them? 

[Wenatcheejay]

The DP ( ) is all about screwing hunting and fishing in my opinion.

It is about a fair and general tax to move away from the North American Model and into a general self sustaining ecosystem program who's main objectives move away from sustainable harvestable game and into a balanced natural scene.

It's OK though. I know it's the future.

[buckfvr]

DP be damned.......stick that pass in a dark hole in Olympia........Im tired of corrupt politicians separating us from our money......Im  all for cutting the head off the dragon and starting over.......muck them all out now!!!!!!

[BOWHUNTER45]

Hey I saw it all today...   coming down along the river I saw discover pass required in PULL OFF SPOTS along the river ...NO NOT PARKING LOTS ....PULL OFF SPOTS ...... I guess someone will be taken a swim if I am park there  I will never buy one 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I think the State is double dipping charging you twice for the same thing with the Discover Pass and WDFW Vehicle Use Permit.  If a hunter has a WDFW Vehicle use permit, that should exempt them from having to pay for the Discover Pass.

[Wenatcheejay]

I think the State is double dipping charging you twice for the same thing with the Discover Pass and WDFW Vehicle Use Permit.  If a hunter has a WDFW Vehicle use permit, that should exempt them from having to pay for the Discover Pass.

 

[Bunny Thumper]

Does anyone know what the fine is if you get caught without one?

[bobcat]

Does anyone know what the fine is if you get caught without one?

I think it's $99 if you are cited while parked, and $200 if cited while driving.

[bigtex]

Looks like this legislation will PASS. It passed the senate with only 6 "nay" votes. It is now in the house. The six senators who voted against it were: Baumgartner (R), Becker (R), Ericksen (R), Holmquist (D), Newbry (D), King (R), and Padden (R). Senator Pflug (R) was excused.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Does anyone know what the fine is if you get caught without one?

I think it's $99 if you are cited while parked, and $200 if cited while driving.

Now that's funny..... Can't they figure out that you had to drive there to park there? No common sense with that crowd.

[bobcat]

Does anyone know what the fine is if you get caught without one?

I think it's $99 if you are cited while parked, and $200 if cited while driving.

Now that's funny..... Can't they figure out that you had to drive there to park there? No common sense with that crowd.

I know, isn't that ridiculous?   

[marlin]

You know, Im upset that I bought the 2 discover passes that I have.. because I wanted to be "legal" and not get a ticket... I dont like dealing with LEO's if I dont have to..
 Anyways. Im upset because I dont see many other people with discover passes. I am constantly out in capitol forest going shooting and whatnot, and I see tons of cars and trucks out there, but not many discover passes. I feel like since I spent 60 bucks for 2 passes, to avoid getting harassed by cops and wardens, and getting tickets, other people should have the damn pass, and they should be enforcing it. I havent seen any enforcement going on. So far they have been a waste of money..

[Sitka_Blacktail]

You know, Im upset that I bought the 2 discover passes that I have.. because I wanted to be "legal" and not get a ticket... I dont like dealing with LEO's if I dont have to..
 Anyways. Im upset because I dont see many other people with discover passes. I am constantly out in capitol forest going shooting and whatnot, and I see tons of cars and trucks out there, but not many discover passes. I feel like since I spent 60 bucks for 2 passes, to avoid getting harassed by cops and wardens, and getting tickets, other people should have the damn pass, and they should be enforcing it. I havent seen any enforcement going on. So far they have been a waste of money..

Ahhh yes, misery loves company.

On a bright note, I've heard a rumor the State is rethinking the discover pass because not near as many people as they thought are buying them. Making people buy one for each vehicle they own is ridiculous too.  Pretty soon the State will find the limit that people are willing to put up with and find a revolt on their hands.

[bigtex]

This bill passed the legislature and it is now up to the governor to sign it. Goes into effect 90 days after her signing.

[bobcat]

bigtex,  are there any plans to change the law so that the fine is different depending on whether the person was parked or driving when cited?

You'd think it would be a priority to change the things that make the lawmakers look stupid.   

[Special T]

Bobcat, half of the rules they pass make them look stupid! If they only asked a few questions or people in the know  the would produce much better legislation.

[bigtex]

bigtex,  are there any plans to change the law so that the fine is different depending on whether the person was parked or driving when cited?

Fines are set by the state Supreme Court, not the legislature. If anything changes it will be up to the court.