Two of us watched one late one summer afternoon ( summer before last ) that we guessed 36 plus....easy. During the modern season, his neighbors were on that same hill and were sat down resting, half asleep, and had a monster they thought to be a 4 ftr walk within 20 yards of them.....no one even moved, they were so shocked. We dont buy a 4ftr by any means, but we believe they saw the buck we had watched.