Have you cake OR get to eat it?

[Curly]

Besides, if the rut were the deciding factor, I'd have an ML.

Muzzleloader hunters don't get to hunt the rut any more than archery hunters do.

 

   (I'll agree with that statement as well).

[pianoman9701]

Oh my gosh, HECK NO!  Crossbows don't belong in an archery discussion anyway but that is another discussion. 

i know you said another descussion but here i go.. 

have you shot a crossbow? or ever spent alot of time with one? the only advantage i see to a crossbow is the fact it is at a cocked postion, so no need to draw back when a animal is coming at you.. which i agree is a huge thing in archery.. but everything else is the same. especially in this state where if permitted to use one you can, but need to use peep/pins. the range is the same with a crossbow as is the modern compound bow from what i have seen so far. let's just seperate groups even more in this state?!?!?!  that is the last thing our sportsman need to do.

Sorry and all due respects, but everything else is not the same, and yes, I've shot one plenty. Bolts are shorter than arrows and resist deflection much better. The archer's paradox is far greater on a bow than a crossbow. Strength and practice is much more necessary with a bow than a crossbow. Aiming is much easier with a crossbow. There's hardly a comparison between a crossbow and a bow. A crossbow is closer to a gun than it is a bow.

This isn't about separating groups. It's about how far away from traditional archery we'll be allowed to get before we stop. We've about reached that point. If you're an archer who believes crossbows should be allowed during archery, why not just hunt modern or ML?

Oh my gosh, HECK NO!  Crossbows don't belong in an archery discussion anyway but that is another discussion. 

i know you said another descussion but here i go.. 

have you shot a crossbow? or ever spent alot of time with one? the only advantage i see to a crossbow is the fact it is at a cocked postion, so no need to draw back when a animal is coming at you.. which i agree is a huge thing in archery.. but everything else is the same. especially in this state where if permitted to use one you can, but need to use peep/pins. the range is the same with a crossbow as is the modern compound bow from what i have seen so far. let's just seperate groups even more in this state?!?!?!  that is the last thing our sportsman need to do.

I thought this discussion was about the rut.  Crossbows have little to do with archery and the differences are vast.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Main point here is the Commission will taek away seasons with an increase in technology,  that goes for all user groups.

[LeeMajors]

I got the impression from his quote that he would not be in favor of allowing scopes on crossbows......

Yes and no.  He implied that crossbows are available for all archers during archery season which they are not.  Don't lump crossbows into the general archery user group and don't volunteer to decrease archery opportunity for all by offering scopes for crossbows for disabled hunters.  That was my beef.

You sure that's what he was implying?  Crossbows are available for disabled archers, and perhaps the elder gentleman is disabled?

[Fullabull]

OK,,,Bobcat, you always bring up the ML not hunting the rut. Yes, they do hunt the rut more then archery! Archery does not even hunt during prime rut, even more so over the last three year and the next three coming up!
 ML hunters start their hunt in early Oct. which is most definitely during prime rutting time. Cow are still coming into heat and all cows not bread during their first cycle come into a second cycle in October. The heat of the rut starts in late September (which archery never gets to hunt unless you hunt in another state) and runs into mid Oct.

[bobcat]

OK,,,Bobcat, you always bring up the ML not hunting the rut. Yes, they do hunt the rut more then archery! Archery does not even hunt during prime rut, even more so over the last three year and the next three coming up!
 ML hunters start their hunt in early Oct. which is most definitely during prime rutting time. Cow are still coming into heat and all cows not bread during their first cycle come into a second cycle in October. The heat of the rut starts in late September (which archery never gets to hunt unless you hunt in another state) and runs into mid Oct.

Well, this is a bit off topic, but all I know is I've heard bugling while I've been out scouting during the September archery season. Once muzzleloader season comes around, I hear nothing, in the same areas.

I'm sure you must know the WDFW has the seasons set just for that reason- archery is before the peak of the rut, and muzzleloader is after.

Now last year you might have had a better argument, with the muzzleloader season beginning October 1st. But this year it's October 6th, and it doesn't often fall as early as the 1st.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

and the coveted Rifle rut tag is in between.... hmmmm make money? 

[dreamingbig]

I got the impression from his quote that he would not be in favor of allowing scopes on crossbows......

Yes and no.  He implied that crossbows are available for all archers during archery season which they are not.  Don't lump crossbows into the general archery user group and don't volunteer to decrease archery opportunity for all by offering scopes for crossbows for disabled hunters.  That was my beef.

You sure that's what he was implying?  Crossbows are available for disabled archers, and perhaps the elder gentleman is disabled?

I know crossbows are available for disabled archers and that is the only user group that can use them during archery season.  I agree with NWBOWHUNTER in that they will take away our opportunity if the effectiveness of our weapons increases.

[dreamingbig]

and the coveted Rifle rut tag is in between.... hmmmm make money?

Yeah that!  The time of year that they said was off limits for everyone until is was no longer.    Money, money, mmoonnnnneeeeeyyyy.

[bobcat]

and the coveted Rifle rut tag is in between.... hmmmm make money?

Yeah that!  The time of year that they said was off limits for everyone until is was no longer.    Money, money, mmoonnnnneeeeeyyyy.

Yeah but that's only a few units and there's only 1 permit in each unit. Pretty small impact especiallly when you figure the indians are hunting all those units too at that time.

[dreamingbig]

Bobcat, that is not the point.  They said it was off limits for every user group but now it is not.  Why not an archery and muzzleloader tag at the same time?  Only 1 per user group?   

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Bobcat, that is not the point.  They said it was off limits for every user group but now it is not.  Why not an archery and muzzleloader tag at the same time?  Only 1 per user group?   

I brought that up to the WDFW at a recent meeting, just make it a "RUT TAG", and allow all 3 user groups to apply.... they didn't like that idea.

[bobcat]

Bobcat, that is not the point.  They said it was off limits for every user group but now it is not.  Why not an archery and muzzleloader tag at the same time?  Only 1 per user group?   

Don't ask me, I don't make the rules.   

All I can say is for those who feel one weapon type has a better season, you are free to buy a tag for whichever one you prefer. If you now hunt archery and you don't like the season, and feel the muzzleloader is a lot better, then buy a muzzleloader tag. Pretty simple. Or if you feel cheated because the modern firearm hunters get 1 permit that is during the elk rut, then buy a modern firearm tag so you can apply for it.

[Fullabull]

Just because you hear bugles does not mean the elk are in the rut. They bugle all year round but it picks up in August when they start figuring out who is in their territories for the coming breeding season. When we talk prime rut, that is when they will come into calling and the cows are ready to breed (late Sept. and the first three weeks of Oct).

[ribka]

ML hunters have the elk rut because archery has been moved back

Besides, if the rut were the deciding factor, I'd have an ML.

Muzzleloader hunters don't get to hunt the rut any more than archery hunters do.