6 point minimum

[emac]

What are your thoughts about this.  What if the state switched all the spike only units to 6 point minimum units.  Do you think that would make for better hunting and more chances at a trophey elk.  Or do you think alot of 5 points and smaller elk would get shoot and left kind like deer in 3 or 4 point minimum areas.  Cause people would shoot and ask questions later.  And if it was a 6 point minimum do you think that the quality of big bulls would improve or demish since you are talking the bigger bulls out of the breading stock.  Its just a thought I had. Don't know if it has been brought up before. 

[rtspring]

Nope it won't work. The reason they went to SPIKE ONLY is for the mature bulls to be around to breed the cows.   

[emac]

That was my initial thought to but since elk breed in sept/early oct that would give the mature bulls a chance to breed before the majority of hunters would be out hunting

[et1702]

As an archery hunter, I wouldn't mind it.  All us archers and then the muzzleloaders are out in the field in Sept & early Oct!  I see big buls every year that I wish I could shoot (and will if I ever get drawn again for a Quality tag).  So, no it wouldn't work.  As someone else mentioned, the justification for "Spike Only" is to keep enough big boys around after the season is over to breed the following Sept.

ET

[PlateauNDN]

I think it would bring more bulls to maturity but, instead of quality bulls you'd end up with quantity.  Harvest all the 6'ers in one year and the next crop comes up with little 6's and the following year nothing and pretty soon there is nothing but big 5's maybe the occasional 6.  Kind of what is occurring in the Wenas with the 3point minimum.  Lots of big 2's and barely any 3's to harvest and it reduces the quality of the hunt to quantity and then pretty soon you've eliminated the quality factor.   

[doyourtime89]

I dont know myself what is the deal with the thought process here...maybe its just me not knowing but.  The state says they do this kind of stuff for the elk population, breeding, better elk, ect.  But on the east side you can on shoot spikes (general season) and on west side its 3 pt min.  What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state.  Just to throw it out there, I hunted in MT a few years ago where the rule was the elk had to have a eye guards to be legal. 

[bobcat]

What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state

They did have in the proposed hunting seasons for 2006 that the westside would be spike only for elk also (in addition to the eastside which already was.) But, I believe they got too many complaints about that so it remained at the 3 point minimum.

[spookgus]

I think it would bring more bulls to maturity but, instead of quality bulls you'd end up with quantity.  Harvest all the 6'ers in one year and the next crop comes up with little 6's and the following year nothing and pretty soon there is nothing but big 5's maybe the occasional 6.  Kind of what is occurring in the Wenas with the 3point minimum.  Lots of big 2's and barely any 3's to harvest and it reduces the quality of the hunt to quantity and then pretty soon you've eliminated the quality factor.   

The big mature 2pt muley was a cool trophy 25 years ago. Now when I see one I wish I could tag him and remove him from the gene pool. Today the young bucks that display good antler genetics get hammered and the big 2s are free to spread there genes. I think a 6pt min for elk would put more pressure on bulls with quality genetics. Although, British Columbia has used 6pt min for elk so maybe my opinion is flawwed.

[Fullabull]

If you go to 6 point min, there would be no quality tags to draw and the state would not make any money. No way would that even get looked at...

Well, I guess you could have a quality meat tag to take a spike for the more tender meat 

[B.G.hunter]

What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state

They did have in the proposed hunting seasons for 2006 that the westside would be spike only for elk also (in addition to the eastside which already was.) But, I believe they got too many complaints about that so it remained at the 3 point minimum.

The state is in the business of selling tags not managing elk.

[coachcw]

draw only ! and haqve a spike and cow tag and a branched bull tag !

[TheHunt]

I love the idea of not taking anything but a 6x6.  BUT, there are areas that you never see a 5x5.  For example the toutle area is fullllllllllll of 5x5.  I am not sure if it is the genetics or what but finding a 6x6 is very difficult. 

So if you are going to do a state wide type of approach then I think a 5x5 min would be your best approach. 

Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state.  I like that as well. 

Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting.  We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res.  If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man.  So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington.  They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls.  Just my opinion....

[doyourtime89]

What is the deal you would think it would be one way or the other for the whole state

They did have in the proposed hunting seasons for 2006 that the westside would be spike only for elk also (in addition to the eastside which already was.) But, I believe they got too many complaints about that so it remained at the 3 point minimum.

The state is in the business of selling tags not managing elk.

 

Very True

[buglebuster]

Kind of what is occurring in the Wenas with the 3point minimum.  Lots of big 2's and barely any 3's to harvest and it reduces the quality of the hunt to quantity and then pretty soon you've eliminated the quality factor.   

that is very true! i have noticed all the giant 2pts in the wenas. Last year i saw 7 bucks shot that i knew of that were big 2pts with 1 tiny eyeguard or 1 little crab claw to make him legal. The wenas unit used to be awesome when it was draw only and the first couple years after that but now it is the unit i would least like to hunt.

Im really not sure how the 6pt minimum would work but i really wouldnt mind seeing the whole state go into a draw only for elk tags!

[PlateauNDN]

I love the idea of not taking anything but a 6x6.  BUT, there are areas that you never see a 5x5.  For example the toutle area is fullllllllllll of 5x5.  I am not sure if it is the genetics or what but finding a 6x6 is very difficult. 

So if you are going to do a state wide type of approach then I think a 5x5 min would be your best approach. 

Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state.  I like that as well. 

Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting.  We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res.  If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man.  So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington.  They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls.  Just my opinion....

I have to interject on part of your comment here.  I believe it would level the playing field more than it currently is but then instead of just the Tribes harvesting the branched bulls you have everybody harvesting them.  Then it would push the Tribal hunters that specifically target the mature branched bulls to seek other areas due to the old areas being open to everybody.  Pretty soon the mature branched bulls (5 or 6 plus) would be a dime a dozen and then the overharvester can either revert to small bulls or cows for the "sustenance" they've been normally pursuing or openly comepete with everybody else.

As most know now we, (Yakamas) don't have restrictions except with female species so it doesn't matter if it was 5 or 6 plus branches for non-tribal members, it would just allow the non-tribal side more opportunities that they've been lacking.  Same amount of chances to get a mature branch bull rather the current system now.

[buglebuster]

I love the idea of not taking anything but a 6x6.  BUT, there are areas that you never see a 5x5.  For example the toutle area is fullllllllllll of 5x5.  I am not sure if it is the genetics or what but finding a 6x6 is very difficult. 

So if you are going to do a state wide type of approach then I think a 5x5 min would be your best approach. 

Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state.  I like that as well. 

Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting.  We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res.  If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man.  So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington.  They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls.  Just my opinion....

I have to interject on part of your comment here.  I believe it would level the playing field more than it currently is but then instead of just the Tribes harvesting the branched bulls you have everybody harvesting them.  Then it would push the Tribal hunters that specifically target the mature branched bulls to seek other areas due to the old areas being open to everybody.  Pretty soon the mature branched bulls (5 or 6 plus) would be a dime a dozen and then the overharvester can either revert to small bulls or cows for the "sustenance" they've been normally pursuing or openly comepete with everybody else.

As most know now we, (Yakamas) don't have restrictions except with female species so it doesn't matter if it was 5 or 6 plus branches for non-tribal members, it would just allow the non-tribal side more opportunities that they've been lacking.  Same amount of chances to get a mature branch bull rather the current system now.

very well said plateau and your 100% right

[colockumelk]

I'm gonna have to agree with Plateau it would level the playing field.

[Skyvalhunter]

The American Indians only take the big ones as it is during the winter, along side the roads when they are more suseptable anyhow. Maybe it should be spike and 2 points only for them.

[PlateauNDN]

The American Indians only take the big ones as it is during the winter, along side the roads when they are more suseptable anyhow. Maybe it should be spike and 2 points only for them.

Really?  Maybe some do but not all.  I don't hunt when snow hits so what does that make me?  I prefer walking in and packing out and that's what I'm teaching my children and most of the hunters I know do as well.  I don't road hunt because it's not a challenge and if that's how some do it then so be it.  I also don't hunt when winter hits because it's also not a challenge, why slaughter something that's just trying to survive?  I prefer the taste of cows but if a bull(spike or branch) presents itself before a cow then so be it.

[Huntbear]

One of the biggest elk herds in the states is in Colorado.  They have a 5 pt. minimum do they not?  They seem to keep a pretty healthy herd if I remember right.

[Huntbear]

Be happy we do not have slot limits like on sturgeon... 

3-5 pt. only...   

[Kowsrule30]

It wouldn't work well imo.... Then 75% (or more) west side hunters would go to the east... That's no joke either... And in areas in the east I've seen some 5 pointers that would easily outscore my 330 class 6 pointer... More mature.... It would turn into nothing but big 5's and the occasional small 6's...... Like how the MD have so many big 2's out there....     

[hunterofelk]

I think there are some units in BC where they have this restriction.  Maybe they have some data.  I like the idea of 5 point or better.

[bobcat]

The best idea of all would be permit only elk hunting, statewide, and with a permit any bull is legal.

[vandeman17]

The best idea of all would be permit only elk hunting, statewide, and with a permit any bull is legal.

As much as a hate to agree, I have to agree that permit only is probably the best route.

[Fullabull]

Colorado is four point min....

[slim9300]

I would like to see the Westside go to 5 point minimum. It would give the bulls at least one more year of breeding before they are killed. Doing this would also improve our abysmal bull to cow ratio. The sad part is that most rifle hunters I know (only 5) would be against the idea but EVERY archery hunter I know would think it's a great idea.

The problem I have with 6 point minimum is that it's very easy for a Rocky Mountain bull to be a mature 5x5 (6+ years old). I'm not sure if that would hold true for "Roosevelts," but since most of them are Rocky Mountain transplans anyways, I am sure it wouldn't be much different.


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[slim9300]

Colorado is four point min....

Brow tined bull.


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[Curly]

Now many would like to a draw only bull permit for the entire state.  I like that as well. 

Now that work great for states that have control of the Native American hunting.  We do NOT. Arizona the native americans can only hunt on their res.  If they hunt out side of that res they are treated like the white man.  So if Washington did a 5X5 or better it would really only support the native americans that live in Washington.  They would have more opportunity to kill the bulls.  Just my opinion....

 

[slim9300]

I would like to see the Westside go to 5 point minimum. It would give the bulls at least one more year of breeding before they are killed. Doing this would also improve our abysmal bull to cow ratio. The sad part is that most rifle hunters I know (only 5) would be against the idea but EVERY archery hunter I know would think it's a great idea.

The problem I have with 6 point minimum is that it's very easy for a Rocky Mountain bull to be a mature 5x5 (6+ years old). I'm not sure if that would hold true for "Roosevelts," but since most of them are Rocky Mountain transplans anyways, I am sure it wouldn't be much different.


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Nobody?


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[Curly]

Maybe archery guys should have a 6 point min and the rest can have 3 point min.  The archery guys have to get up close and personal anyway so they will have a better chance of counting the points correctly. 

 

[huntnnw]

and none of this would still matter in NE WA