Why are there no muzzleloader seasons in the blues for elk?

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I was looking at the proposals for 2012 and there is no ml season in the blues for spikes,why not?  And they got rid of the cow hunt in lick creek for bow hunters?  Wtf!?  I was excited to have the multi season tags, now I'm not so sure.

[washelkhunter]

Why is there no ML in 346, or 560 or anywhere eastside that isnt for spike. All they offered were the crap units on the west for antlerless. Thats a real good question for the director and the commision. I encourage you to ask them.

[huntnphool]

 Hunting with Rafflemule down there was really interesting. I lost count of the number of branch antler bulls we saw over the season, way more than I thought we would. The interesting part is I only saw 2 spikes the entire time. On another note, I saw more bulls than cows!

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Why is there no ML in 346, or 560 or anywhere eastside that isnt for spike. All they offered were the crap units on the west for antlerless. Thats a real good question for the director and the commision. I encourage you to ask them.

Isn't lick creek on the east? Are you talking about blue creek?  Regardless they are idiots, not even offering a hunt where modern and archery season are offered is crap!

[rosscrazyelk]

I have not seen any proposed regs yet but in the past couple years the blues for muzzleloader has been permit only. Only reason I can think of is there was not enough representation from that group when the regs were drawn . Just a guess though

[bobcat]

Proposed regulations:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2012/wsr_12-04-098.pdf

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I agree, even though I am not a muzzleloader, I feel compassion for the limited areas available.
As far as why..  I think it again comes down to a bias against primitive weapons, and the $$ generated by modern.
My father was a member in "The Cascade Mountain Mans (?) Association" in the 70's, but not being involved myself, see little representation compaired to Archery and MF, I could be mistaken..
One of the reasons I remember was a result of "resource Allocation" and the +/- 20% success rate once enjoyed by ML hunters, in the WDFW attempts to reduce hunter success, yet increase participation, they forgot the reasons a lot of hunters used "primitive weapons"  as far as increased opportunity...
In their ongoing effort to increase revenue, while eliminating hunter success, they do not offer hunts (except special permit) that have a high chance of harvest.
In my opinion, those areas would be a slaughter with "modern muzzle-loaders" being able to hunt the first week of October,  the combination of Elk numbers, visibility, and escapement, and would have too high an impact on herd numbers.
So much easier to crowd the ML into areas that have less "quality" hunting, just to give them a season, than to actually "manage" the herd.
Another example of why I feel they should quit playing a "numbers" game (with reducing the Yakima and StHelens herds with Cow permits) and give us more days afield, with Antler point restrictions, and increased predator opportunity (Spring bear, hounds for cats, etc..)
But what do I know.. 

[Curly]

Stik is right on the money.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Actually, as far as my predator comment, I remember a study done a while ago where they claimed a 40% mortality on calves by bears, cougars, and coyotes in the Blues, yet they never really did anything to address the problem, but figure out if they allowed a ML season, then they would have to make it spike only,  any increased harvest on antlerless would reduce calf recruitment to almost nothing, and then the MF would scream because there were no spikes left after Archery and ML got through.
And then there would be no Elk left in the Blues, just like in the Colockum. 
What I think they really should do, is make it a prerequisite for ANYBODY that works for the WDFW to be required to pass an interview by hunters and fishermen (women) to be approved before they are allowed to make any decisions regarding hunting seasons.
NON HUNTERS SHOULD NOT BE ESTABLISHING OUR HUNTING REGULATIONS !!!
NON FISHERMEN (WOMEN) SHOULD NOT BE DECIDING OUR FISHING REGULATIONS !!!

[dreamingbig]

Why is there no ML in 346, or 560 or anywhere eastside that isnt for spike. All they offered were the crap units on the west for antlerless. Thats a real good question for the director and the commision. I encourage you to ask them.

There are special permits in 346 for muzzleloader.  I am not sure if you were talking about a general season only.

[B.G.hunter]

NON HUNTERS SHOULD NOT BE ESTABLISHING OUR HUNTING REGULATIONS !!!
NON FISHERMEN (WOMEN) SHOULD NOT BE DECIDING OUR FISHING REGULATIONS !!!

  

[PlateauNDN]

Actually, as far as my predator comment, I remember a study done a while ago where they claimed a 40% mortality on calves by bears, cougars, and coyotes in the Blues, yet they never really did anything to address the problem, but figure out if they allowed a ML season, then they would have to make it spike only,  any increased harvest on antlerless would reduce calf recruitment to almost nothing, and then the MF would scream because there were no spikes left after Archery and ML got through.
And then there would be no Elk left in the Blues, just like in the Colockum. 
What I think they really should do, is make it a prerequisite for ANYBODY that works for the WDFW to be required to pass an interview by hunters and fishermen (women) to be approved before they are allowed to make any decisions regarding hunting seasons.
NON HUNTERS SHOULD NOT BE ESTABLISHING OUR HUNTING REGULATIONS !!!
NON FISHERMEN (WOMEN) SHOULD NOT BE DECIDING OUR FISHING REGULATIONS !!!

Solid info. STIK.   I remember reading a similar report in regards to predators as well not to long ago and one of the comments they hadn't even factored in yet was the increase in wolf predatation, I don't remember which state it was but it was pretty close to WA.  I believe it was north yellowstone area.   I also agree with the end of your post as well.

[bucklucky]

We will be lucky to see a season in the blues in 5 years with the rate the wolf pack is growing and killing in there. Cows and calves get the brunt of the wolf kills from what I have seen in there. Its really too bad.

[bigpaw 77]

It is very frustrating  I hunt Lick creek for deer in the muzzleloader season and elk hunt there when I can draw a tag. I would think they could open one unit down there for us. So this year I am archery hunting lick creek (cow or spike) It is the only way to hunt where I love to hunt. It wont be long and I will give up on this state all together and spend my money elsewhere. 

[bobcat]

If they don't have the unit open for muzzleloader that you want to hunt, then hunt the archery season.

Almost every unit is open for archery.   

[JLS]

I was looking at the proposals for 2012 and there is no ml season in the blues for spikes,why not?  And they got rid of the cow hunt in lick creek for bow hunters?  Wtf!?  I was excited to have the multi season tags, now I'm not so sure.

The cow hunt is still there.

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I was looking at the proposals for 2012 and there is no ml season in the blues for spikes,why not?  And they got rid of the cow hunt in lick creek for bow hunters?  Wtf!?  I was excited to have the multi season tags, now I'm not so sure.

The cow hunt is still there.

I saw it, my bad it was on the next page. 

And there is an archery season everywhere, but if you wanna apply for a late buck hunt in the blues, they only offer mf and ml special permits.  Why the heck would they not offer an archery tag? 

It's very simple archery then muzzy, then modern.  If you offer one group an opportunity to hunt a unit, the other groups should have a season as well.  Even of there are only 2 guys that wanna chase a spike around with a smoke pole, they should have a season. 

[emac]

Its the same with deer hunting over during the ml season.  Last year was the first year I have ml.  So I went back home to pomeroy and was planning on hunting some friends land south of town. I was talking to a buddy who was ml too and he asked me where I was going in the morning, so I told him and he told me peola gmu is not open to ml.  So I went out to mayview instead.  It would of been my fault for not reading the regs closely enough.  It just doesn't make sense to me that peola is open to archery and modern firearm but closed to ml.  If anyone can explain that to me that would be great.  I don't get with elk and even more I don't get with deer!!!

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Hey bobcat check your inbox, I sent a couple pm's regarding advertising on the site.  Thanks

[rosscrazyelk]

The predator problem is pretty bad there. Two years ago I saw 5 cats together. My buddy missed one and 4 years ago 3 were killed in two days just yards from camp.. When the wolves get worse forget it

[bigpaw 77]

I talked to a game warden in Lick Creed last year and he told me there is no muzzleloader season for elk because the indians take to many elk. I do realize it is a popular place to hunt for tribes, and I know there is a lot of cats down there, but there is a ton of elk. So I was thinking that if the populations are down (according to the state)  then why does the state allow hundreds of rifle hunters to hunt it and not the small handful of muzzleloader hunters and I realize there is a huge population of rifle hunters and they need to spread them out, but I pay the same amount for my elk tag as the rifle guys do.  The more I think about it the more pissed I get at our faulty game management system.

[washelkhunter]

I talked to a game warden in Lick Creed last year and he told me there is no muzzleloader season for elk because the indians take to many elk. I do realize it is a popular place to hunt for tribes, and I know there is a lot of cats down there, but there is a ton of elk. So I was thinking that if the populations are down (according to the state)  then why does the state allow hundreds of rifle hunters to hunt it and not the small handful of muzzleloader hunters and I realize there is a huge population of rifle hunters and they need to spread them out, but I pay the same amount for my elk tag as the rifle guys do.  The more I think about it the more pissed I get at our faulty game management system.

Amen brother.   

[igotbigbulls]

yeah we hunt around there quite a bit but i dont really see it as a hot spot for tribal hunting. unless the nez perce hunt there alot. we know most the tribal families that hunt around that area. there are animals taken out of there but i will say that the predators do they're fair damage too.

[bigpaw 77]

In the last 3 years we have seen a small group of native hunters out driving the roads. It may not be as popular as other parts of the state with them, but I don't think the game department can use them as a scape goat for not allowing muzzy hunters an elk season. They need a new excuse, one that makes sense would be nice.

[bucklucky]

It doesnt matter what the game department does with seasons, there will always be people that are unhappy no matter what they do.

[B.G.hunter]

GMU 172 (mountain view) is open to muzzleloading elk spike.  But I wish there were more.  I hunted Lick Creek with a cow tag muzzy last year and one spike out of over a hundred elk.  I think general antlerless archery needs to go to a draw because that unit is a circus.

[PlateauNDN]

In the last 3 years we have seen a small group of native hunters out driving the roads. It may not be as popular as other parts of the state with them, but I don't think the game department can use them as a scape goat for not allowing muzzy hunters an elk season. They need a new excuse, one that makes sense would be nice.

   It's just to easy to blame the Tribes for some.  Not that there are wolves in that part of the area or even poaching for that matter, just blame the Tribes and get it over with so you can feel better.  Find a real excuse because the Umatillas as far as I'm concerned have a very good reporting and management system in place and I haven't even heard of Nez Perce venturing this way.  The families I know in Lapwai stay in their own back yard and harvest deer and elk, alot closer and they have their honey holes where it's alot cheaper gas wise and easier to bring meat home.

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

And like he said they are driving the roads, they don't kill as many as people would like to think.  The animals up there dont spend much time next to the roads anymore.

Also would the nez perce have Idaho licenses plates?  I always see lots of Idaho plates up there and I can't see to many guys paying non resident tag fees to hunt spikes, I always assumed they were natives.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

It doesn't matter what the game department does with seasons, there will always be people that are unhappy no matter what they do.

I also agree that there should be equal opportunity for all weapon users, but the days of equality are long gone.
"special interest groups" are getting organized, while the average hunter is still arguing with his brother, the reason mf gets the seasons they do is there are so many out there that the Elk are hiding, and it takes extra effort by the few willing to "man-up" to be successful.
Go out during ANY season, in Washington State, you will see more vehicles driving the roads, than parked at gates, or left in camp.
Spend a day in camp, and watch the constant parade of vehicles drive by...
By November (MF Season) those Elk have left the areas they been hanging out all summer.
I know in Manastash, from now until September I can see 100's of Elk from the roads, but as soon as season starts, you better get out and walk.
Yet, again, a vast majority of "Elk Hunters" expect hunting to be just like in the video's, and are too concerned about the beer in their cooler staying cold than hunting from dark until dark, sleeping for a few hours, and hunting from dark, until dark.
90% of the animals are harvested by 10% of the hunters, the rest just get lucky.
The animals dumb enough to hang around easily accessable areas, get removed from the gene pool, plain and simple.
If the WDFW would just increase season length in areas they wish to reduce herd numbers in, then more hunters would hunt there, but as been stated countless times 
The WDFW only cares about their paychecks, not sportsmen/women.

[BLUEBULLS]

In the last 3 years we have seen a small group of native hunters out driving the roads. It may not be as popular as other parts of the state with them, but I don't think the game department can use them as a scape goat for not allowing muzzy hunters an elk season. They need a new excuse, one that makes sense would be nice.

   It's just to easy to blame the Tribes for some.  Not that there are wolves in that part of the area or even poaching for that matter, just blame the Tribes and get it over with so you can feel better.  Find a real excuse because the Umatillas as far as I'm concerned have a very good reporting and management system in place and I haven't even heard of Nez Perce venturing this way.  The families I know in Lapwai stay in their own back yard and harvest deer and elk, alot closer and they have their honey holes where it's alot cheaper gas wise and easier to bring meat home.

Not to sound critical but it is the Nez Perce who do the bulk of the killing in the eastern portion of the blues.  I've ran into guys shooting elk from the road with a beer on the hood.

Now the western part of the blues is a different story, most natives I've run into here are good, ethical hunters.

[SkookumHntr]

-Go Archery!!