Down goes illuminated nocks!

[dscubame]

Someone should set up another Hunt-Wa poll on this matter to update where the "true" archers stand against the "non true" archers.

[Chase 1]

Someone should set up another Hunt-Wa poll on this matter to update where the "true" archers stand against the "non true" archers.

There will be plenty of time for that in 8 months when this issue is front and center...again.

[huntnphool]

There will be plenty of time for that in 8 months when this issue is front and center...again.

  Thanks for stoking the fire Snapshot, I'm sure there are plenty of worthy issues to dedicate my time and resources to, but this next year will be focussed on getting this passed.

[Chase 1]

What??? Where do I even start with that? The 85% is the vocal minority? You do have a creative way of manufacturing data to support your position, I'll give you that. What about that 10,000 signature petition? Still waiting for the details on that. As far as your blinding stats and tread counts, like I said creative. These are the very tactics that have made this a contentious issue. Misrepresenting the information on the issue to bolster your position is destructive and disingenuous. I have never thought that anything I would say would sway Snapshot or NWWA but recognize that your antics on this issue have been noticed and not in a "pat on the back" way. I might want to thank you this time next year for igniting a much louder political voice from the majority.

I can leave it alone for now, I just wanted to get a firm grasp on the position of the opposition. Got it.

It's been a spirited debate that has stayed above board and I can appreciate that.

Yes it has been a very good discussion.

I'll boil down my "creative" data manufacturing process to the bare bones. That 85% amounts to 360 people. That is 1.4% of the all people who were sent the informal survey.

See you down the trail.

Couldn't help yourself, just had to manufacture one more bs stat that you could present as fact. Just so it's clear 85% of 3000 is 2550, not 360. That leaves 450 opposed, a landslide anyway you stack it! As far as people surveyed vs return response, if you get an opinion request from the department and chose not to participate, I consider your vote as "unopposed" or "no opinion" to the requested change.

Just because you think it or say it, doesn't make it true! I really am ready to let this go for a few months, but if you insist on making up new stats to spread false information, I'll debate it all year. Your not foolin anyone (maybe a couple people...NWWA) with your "new math" and "blinding science". Might be time for you to take a breathe and consider the damage that such a small minority have manage to cause the archery community. Division is destructive!

[pianoman9701]

Anyone hear about the proposal to outlaw string silencers? 

[Chase 1]

80% of the survey, which was (I am going from memory here) approx 2000, yet over 10K signed against them .......   come on guys, lets get on to important things like getting our seasons back.

Still waiting on the details about these 10,000 signatures? Or did you totally make that up? Spreading misinformation is not good policy when there are folks listening and willing to call you out. So...details?

[NWWABOWHNTR]

DUde, you need to take a chill pill.  You are about to step over the line, challenge my integrity?  FU.  Yes over 10,000 signatures were submitted to the commission, whether you want to believe it or not, along with the hundreds of emails and letters they received.  You talk about division,  look in the mirror.  WHere were you at the public commission meeting, how many WDFW meetings did you attend, did you take the timne to go to any of them and testify, or were you hiding behind your keyboard?  I am done with this thread, I am moving on to what needs to be done. 

[Snapshot]

Couldn't help yourself, just had to manufacture one more bs stat that you could present as fact. Just so it's clear 85% of 3000 is 2550, not 360. That leaves 450 opposed, a landslide anyway you stack it! As far as people surveyed vs return response, if you get an opinion request from the department and chose not to participate, I consider your vote as "unopposed" or "no opinion" to the requested change.

Just because you think it or say it, doesn't make it true! I really am ready to let this go for a few months, but if you insist on making up new stats to spread false information, I'll debate it all year. Your not foolin anyone (maybe a couple people...NWWA) with your "new math" and "blinding science". Might be time for you to take a breathe and consider the damage that such a small minority have manage to cause the archery community. Division is destructive!

I could blame my shoddy math skill on fat fingers or I can just admit that math and I have never gotten along very well. You are correct that 85% of 3000 is 2550; my head was squarely up my arse there. So of the 26,000 people who were sent the informal survey 9.8% said yes to "Should an exception to the no electronics rule be made for the lighted nock" (or however it was worded).

Please don't preach to me about division being destructive. I am not trying to change the status quo. If unity was really so important the status quo would not be challenged because it isn't broke. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Chase 1]

DUde, you need to take a chill pill.  You are about to step over the line, challenge my integrity?  FU.  Yes over 10,000 signatures were submitted to the commission, whether you want to believe it or not, along with the hundreds of emails and letters they received.  You talk about division,  look in the mirror.  WHere were you at the public commission meeting, how many WDFW meetings did you attend, did you take the timne to go to any of them and testify, or were you hiding behind your keyboard?  I am done with this thread, I am moving on to what needs to be done.

Wow just when I complimented all the posters for keeping the debate above board, you go with that? All I asked was for you to produce the details of the signature campaign that was filed with the commission. It can go two ways, you should be able to back up your claim by answering my previous questions or admit that it was a mistake.

I have been at most of the commission meetings this year, but your right I couldn't make it to Moses. Had I been there my focus would have been on expanding elk opportunity for early archery in the Bumping and Nile units, maybe you read my report?. Before that I was busy writing a 10 page petition and collecting signatures to keep the department from closing sturgeon fishing in the Puget Sound and tributaries. Now I'm working to get the allocation of PS Spot Shrimp reviewed by the department and commission to expand recreational opportunity, and furthering the Goose Prairie discussion, O yeah and getting vocal on this issue. Like I said, I can do more than one thing at a time.

If by chill pill you mean sit idly by and allow a few to spread misinformation and represent it as fact...don't count on it.

[huntnphool]

I am not trying to change the status quo. If unity was really so important the status quo would not be challenged because it isn't broke. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 Another poorly thought out comment Snapshot, even our founding fathers knew that times change and with it so must we, that is why we have amendments to our constitution.

 Are you suggesting that our dept. believes they got everything perfect when the original set of rules were adopted and they would never require amending? Come on, even they understood it would evolve over time.

[Chase 1]

Couldn't help yourself, just had to manufacture one more bs stat that you could present as fact. Just so it's clear 85% of 3000 is 2550, not 360. That leaves 450 opposed, a landslide anyway you stack it! As far as people surveyed vs return response, if you get an opinion request from the department and chose not to participate, I consider your vote as "unopposed" or "no opinion" to the requested change.

Just because you think it or say it, doesn't make it true! I really am ready to let this go for a few months, but if you insist on making up new stats to spread false information, I'll debate it all year. Your not foolin anyone (maybe a couple people...NWWA) with your "new math" and "blinding science". Might be time for you to take a breathe and consider the damage that such a small minority have manage to cause the archery community. Division is destructive!

I could blame my shoddy math skill on fat fingers or I can just admit that math and I have never gotten along very well. You are correct that 85% of 3000 is 2550; my head was squarely up my arse there. So of the 26,000 people who were sent the informal survey 9.8% said yes to "Should an exception to the no electronics rule be made for the lighted nock" (or however it was worded).

Please don't preach to me about division being destructive. I am not trying to change the status quo. If unity was really so important the status quo would not be challenged because it isn't broke. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

But you have to see that your self admitted lack of a friendly relationship with math makes your fun facts and statistics difficult to take at face value? I am not trying to devalue up opinion or position on this, I respect and value it. Everyone gets one and I have heard yours. This is a particularly difficult issue because on the vast majority of everything else that faces archers in the future, we will be on the same page. 

My issue has become bigger than lite knocks. I take issue with a vocal few deciding that their views should supercede everyone else's, I take issue when the loud drown out the many, and I take issue with misinformation. I am concerned that the direction of archery could be getting slanted in a way that does not represent the entire community of archers.

I'm not preachin, I'm sayin what I see. As said before, next year I will be thanking you for riling up the inactive majority and putting them in the mix. As for the status quo... if that held water there would be no archery seasons. 

[Chase 1]

Anyone hear about the proposal to outlaw string silencers? 

Yeah... but after archers polled 85% in favor, and the GMAC, WSB, and WDFW approved the change... the commissioners rejected it. 

[Lowedog]

I'm still wanting to read the details on these 10,000 signatures opposing lighted nocks.  That blows me away that 10,000 WA archers rallied to sign a petition against lighted nocks when only 3000 bothered to respond to a survey that was emailed to them and only a few key strokes worth of effort.  That is some serious community organizing there!

[Chase 1]

Cricket...cricket...cricket...

[NWWABOWHNTR]

Anyone hear about the proposal to outlaw string silencers? 

Yeah... but after archers polled 85% in favor, and the GMAC, WSB, and WDFW approved the change... the commissioners rejected it. 

Wrong again... you would think you would know your own organizations stand... WSB did not approve.