Down goes illuminated nocks!

[Machias Bowhunter]

Machias, that is true, however just like luminok there are alternatives. There is the video camera that is mounted in glass frames, and also clip to a hat bill or the front of a hat... they work real well.

Oh I i know I was just trying to lighten the topic, we are fighting over what a person deems primitive and not what needs to worked on, ie why do they give out whitetail doe tags to modern and muzzle loader but not archery when the reason they changed the NE corner of the state to buck only was that the population was down, but we will give the the doe tags to weapons that can shoot over a 100yrds with extreme accuracy, but yet we argue over lighted nocks, I personaly would like to see them, and no not to find my arrow or to allow me to shoot later into the evening, but to help me see where my shot went to help determine how long I should wait until I start looking for the animal, which will help in game recovery, we all make bad shots at times, may shoot a little to far back, to low and so on, knowing where you hit the animal can play a big part in deciding when to look, you dont want to push a gut shot animal, they can run forever, would rather let them lie down and go back in the morning if you shot in the evening or later in the evening if shot in the morning, that would be the only reason.

[Chase 1]

Machias, that is true, however just like luminok there are alternatives. There is the video camera that is mounted in glass frames, and also clip to a hat bill or the front of a hat... they work real well.

So your fine with archers carryin a back pack with 10 lbs of GPS, range finder, radios, flashlight,and Bond glasses/robo hat cams in it, but drawn the line at lite nocks?   

[Matt]

Machias, that is true, however just like luminok there are alternatives. There is the video camera that is mounted in glass frames, and also clip to a hat bill or the front of a hat... they work real well.

So your fine with archers carryin a back pack with 10 lbs of GPS, range finder, radios, flashlight,and Bond glasses/robo hat cams in it, but drawn the line at lite nocks?   

We can carry anything that we want as long as there are no electronics attached to the archery equipment.  If you go by Pope and Young 2-way radios will keep you out of the record book.  Not fair chase talking your buddy in on the big one.

[Matt]

Oh I i know I was just trying to lighten the topic, we are fighting over what a person deems primitive and not what needs to worked on, ie why do they give out whitetail doe tags to modern and muzzle loader but not archery when the reason they changed the NE corner of the state to buck only was that the population was down, but we will give the the doe tags to weapons that can shoot over a 100yrds with extreme accuracy, but yet we argue over lighted nocks, I personaly would like to see them, and no not to find my arrow or to allow me to shoot later into the evening, but to help me see where my shot went to help determine how long I should wait until I start looking for the animal, which will help in game recovery, we all make bad shots at times, may shoot a little to far back, to low and so on, knowing where you hit the animal can play a big part in deciding when to look, you dont want to push a gut shot animal, they can run forever, would rather let them lie down and go back in the morning if you shot in the evening or later in the evening if shot in the morning, that would be the only reason.

This is a GREAT point.  While we were all bickering with each other over this lighted nock issue these kinds of things were going on.  In fact it was also happening with cow tags.  Luckily Ren injected that archery should get some of those cow tags that were exclusively going to ML and MF.  You read the regs and you can see that we did get some of those.  So while everyone is flogging Ren he was fighting for more opportunity and won.  We can make a difference if we ban together on important issues.

[Matt]

I'm not completely sure where you get your information but here's the direct quote from the regs under Muzzleloader Regulations. Fiber optic sights are legal for muzzleloaders. That may be why they aren't crying 

b.   Sights must be open, peep, or of other
open sight design. Fiber optic sights
are legal.

See proves my point that I don't go on their forums.  But they still can't have a scope. 

[Snapshot]

...but yet we argue over lighted nocks, I personaly would like to see them, and no not to find my arrow or to allow me to shoot later into the evening, but to help me see where my shot went to help determine how long I should wait until I start looking for the animal, which will help in game recovery, we all make bad shots at times, may shoot a little to far back, to low and so on, knowing where you hit the animal can play a big part in deciding when to look, you dont want to push a gut shot animal, they can run forever, would rather let them lie down and go back in the morning if you shot in the evening or later in the evening if shot in the morning, that would be the only reason.

I rarely have any trouble seeing my (11/32" or 23/64") arrow with bright feathers and white or yellow nock. Reasons for that are simply: 1) shot distances are always under 22-25 yards and 2) the arrow is traveling at a speed of maybe 150 or 175 fps.

[Snapshot]

Snapshot you must like loosing arrows!!

Loosing: letting the string slip from the fingers to launch an arrow. Yes, I love doing that.

Losing: misplacing an arrow. I don't recall that last time I lost a hunting arrow that I shot at a big game animal. I might have lost one on the westside when I missed a deer in tall ferns about five years ago. I'd have to ask my hunting partners...they remember stuff like that.

[Chase 1]

Snapshot you must like loosing arrows!!

Loosing: letting the string slip from the fingers to launch an arrow. Yes, I love doing that.

Losing: misplacing an arrow. I don't recall that last time I lost a hunting arrow that I shot at a big game animal. I might have lost one on the westside when I missed a deer in tall ferns about five years ago. I'd have to ask my hunting partners...they remember stuff like that.

That might have been the broadhead my buddy stepped on in a fern patch a few years ago. If you just had a lite nock on that arrow you could have found it and saved him a trip to the ER, stitches, and lost opportunity.

[huntnphool]

We can make a difference if we ban together on important issues.

 After the result handed down by the commission I don't believe it will make a difference but we will see. That being said, I am going to make it a priority to work harder than I did last year to get luminoks passed for next year, see you at the meetings Snapshot.

[Chase 1]

Oh I i know I was just trying to lighten the topic, we are fighting over what a person deems primitive and not what needs to worked on, ie why do they give out whitetail doe tags to modern and muzzle loader but not archery when the reason they changed the NE corner of the state to buck only was that the population was down, but we will give the the doe tags to weapons that can shoot over a 100yrds with extreme accuracy, but yet we argue over lighted nocks, I personaly would like to see them, and no not to find my arrow or to allow me to shoot later into the evening, but to help me see where my shot went to help determine how long I should wait until I start looking for the animal, which will help in game recovery, we all make bad shots at times, may shoot a little to far back, to low and so on, knowing where you hit the animal can play a big part in deciding when to look, you dont want to push a gut shot animal, they can run forever, would rather let them lie down and go back in the morning if you shot in the evening or later in the evening if shot in the morning, that would be the only reason.

This is a GREAT point.  While we were all bickering with each other over this lighted nock issue these kinds of things were going on.  In fact it was also happening with cow tags.  Luckily Ren injected that archery should get some of those cow tags that were exclusively going to ML and MF.  You read the regs and you can see that we did get some of those.  So while everyone is flogging Ren he was fighting for more opportunity and won.  We can make a difference if we ban together on important issues.

Careful to not credit one with the efforts of many. Especially after you hear how some chose to spend their 3 minutes in front of the Commission. I certainly don't want to belittle all the behind the scene efforts of the archer "reps" but when you get one shot to address the 3 year package directly with the Commission and you spend that collective 15 minutes to rail against luminocks, I can't help but question if it was really worth side lining some of the bigger issues to push their own agenda. 

Let me be clear, I appreciate the efforts of all the guys that give their time to promote and protect the rights of archers. This is one small issue that we don't agree on but it pales when compared with the ones that we do agree on. I look forward to the resolution of this next year so this manufactured rift between archer groups is not the defining issue before the DFW and so the united voice of archers can tackle the real issues.   

[Matt]

I wasn't sayin/implying that it was all him.  I was pointing out that he is fighting for all archers as well as trying to preserve what we have.  There are folks that can see down the tube but have no idea of all the other things that are going on.  There are no self agendas here.

[boneaddict]

Wow, you guys still going at it.    The WDFW is selling our game right into non-existence and Obama is giving our country away, and you guys are still fired up about lighted sticks. 

Well, he is going to get your guns, so I hope you are good with these lighted sharp sticks....good at stump shooting I guess because hunting as you know is gone gone gone....Like a Montgomery Gentry song.

[Matt]

We all agree that we enjoy a very liberal hunting season.  We all have to agree that we are classified as a primitive weapon.  We can all also agree that we have plenty of modern accessories to go along with the bow.

Of course if the commission, WDFW or whoever wants to issue a survey/poll to archers, sends one out ASKING if archers want electronic to be allowed on their equipment then you will get a majority to say yes.  But lets face it, if you ask everyone if they want to eliminate bag limits a majority will say yes as well (I would hope that wouldn't be the case though).  If we allow electronics on archery equipment then why not allow crossbows, draw locks and whatever else you can put on a bow or classify as archery equipment?  Where are we going to stop or are we?  I hope that at some point we keep it real and say to ourselves that it isn't needed.  The powers that be have no business ASKING us what WE want.  They should spend their time managing the resources that we all enjoy pursuing.  Nor should we let the industry try to persued those making the rules.  Of course they want to open up another state to sales.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

[/quote]

Careful to not credit one with the efforts of many. Especially after you hear how some chose to spend their 3 minutes in front of the Commission. I certainly don't want to belittle all the behind the scene efforts of the archer "reps" but when you get one shot to address the 3 year package directly with the Commission and you spend that collective 15 minutes to rail against luminocks, I can't help but question if it was really worth side lining some of the bigger issues to push their own agenda. 

Let me be clear, I appreciate the efforts of all the guys that give their time to promote and protect the rights of archers. This is one small issue that we don't agree on but it pales when compared with the ones that we do agree on. I look forward to the resolution of this next year so this manufactured rift between archer groups is not the defining issue before the DFW and so the united voice of archers can tackle the real issues.   
[/quote]

This was one of very few items on the agenda presented for public input to the Commission at the meeting.  So there for it was discussed by those who took the time to attend.  The Commission accepted public input on all other items via emails, phone calls and letters.  So if we wasted our 3 minutes and the 6 hour drive, to discuss what was on the agenda, I guess I don't understand??? 

[Chase 1]

We all agree that we enjoy a very liberal hunting season.  We all have to agree that we are classified as a primitive weapon.  We can all also agree that we have plenty of modern accessories to go along with the bow.

Of course if the commission, WDFW or whoever wants to issue a survey/poll to archers, sends one out ASKING if archers want electronic to be allowed on their equipment then you will get a majority to say yes.  But lets face it, if you ask everyone if they want to eliminate bag limits a majority will say yes as well (I would hope that wouldn't be the case though).  If we allow electronics on archery equipment then why not allow crossbows, draw locks and whatever else you can put on a bow or classify as archery equipment?  Where are we going to stop or are we?  I hope that at some point we keep it real and say to ourselves that it isn't needed.  The powers that be have no business ASKING us what WE want.  They should spend their time managing the resources that we all enjoy pursuing.  Nor should we let the industry try to persued those making the rules.  Of course they want to open up another state to sales.

Tough sell with that Matt! Maybe you should put up a poll and test your "eliminate the bag limits" theory. And enough with the Pandora's box argument, there is no box! There will continue to be new issues raised and debated and on most of them the majority will be in the other direction. But on this one...it's not.

As for not asking our opinion on what we want, I couldn't disagree more. Do you think that archery seasons, rules, and allocation should be set by a department without archer impute? That would be a disaster! Just ask one of the guys that started the archery season push. Archers had nothing until they demanded a voice in the process. Not only should they ask what we want but when they hear an overwhelming majority...they should DO what we want.