Open Carry

[MadHatter]

i guess i should have stated it this way.  when in open carry in town or city, you are vunerable to some tweaker, gansta, or mental idiot taking your gun from you without warning. personally i believe in the out of site out of mind theory, so that last bit is an opinion, the first is a warning.

That is what situational awareness is for... I Open carry everywhere, if someone is coming up on me, I know about them... PERIOD... I do one of three things that will give me the advantage.  I can move to an area with a better tactical advantage (which also goes with the third thing).  I can verbally challenge them.  If I have moved and someone deliberately follows me again, they are a threat until deemed otherwise .  Now I am not going to deadly force, but I am going to find out why they are coming at me and what they want.   The one that normally works well is to give them a subtle hint that you are onto them and they will normally leave.  Some people call it head-on-a-swivel, situational awareness... But either way, you just have to know who is around you and do some retention drills.  Nothing is fool-proof, but training goes a long way as well as making sure that no one is in your bubble without you knowing about them being there.

I open carry because I can, I have for 5 years now and have every right to do so.  I have been hassled by the cops once, and turned into a non-issue after about 2min.  I did follow up with the officers supervisor and was assured that it would never happen again.  My take is concealed or open or even taped it to your head... At least you take your (and your families) security seriously.  If you don't like OC, fine.  Don't OC.  But please do not come up to me in public and tell me you think I am wrong because you do it differently.

[kentrek]

just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.

[toothfangclaw]

I prefer concealed carry not cause I am worried about cops or public opinion, but because I want the bad guy to get his first warning when my 45 is going off, if he hears it before it kills him.
Carl

Just so I can understand, you would rather kill a person all be it in self defense, then to wear your piece in plane view and give the perp a chance to see it and second guess his move? no offense intended in my genuine questioning.

[MadHatter]

just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.

 I worked in LE, and I know for me, some of it comes from that.  But yes, I am always looking around and always know...1. Who is around me 2. Where nearest cover is 3. Where nearest concealment it 4. Where best egress is 5. What directions can I shoot safely without collateral damage, should the need arise. 

As far as bringing the situation on, I can say I am actually more inclined to resolve things with people at a lower level because I do not want to ever have to use my weapon. Let me use this situation that happened to me about 2 years ago. 

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I was traveling back from Oregon, and stopped at thea rest stop on I5 north, just north of Vancouver to re-arm myself, stretch my legs and have a smoke.  Knowing that it was 11pm, dark, rainy and this rest stop is tucked back off the highway.  I went to the far end of the lot where no one parks. 

On my way in I noticed a single 80's toyota hatch back parked right by the bathrooms.  There was female on the passenger side, shielding her face from being seen with her hand.  I took down the license plate because it just looked off to me being there the way it was.  I was standing with a friend and saw the guy through the trees and he was walking up the truck parking side.  Me being the only car there, I knew he was making his way to up come over to me.  As soon as he stepped off the curb into the car lot 30feet away he made a b-line to me with his head down, shoulders forward and hands in his hoody pocket.  I had my flashlight out, and light him up and ordered him to stop, he was close enough to me for my comfort.  He took two more steps, so I told him to stop again, and he complied and said he was out of gas with his wife and baby and looking for money.  I told him I didn't have any, and that he needed to leave me alone.  He called me an A--hole, said I needed to "chill" and walked off. 

I got back into my car and left and called 911 about a suspicious person at the rest stop.  The trooper called me about 30min later to tell me that he and the female with him (there was no kid) were arrested and wanted me to come back and write a statement (which I did).  I have no doubt that had I not been paying attention the situation could have ended a lot differently.  Had I not deescalated the situation the best I could at the lowest level I don't know what could have happened.  My hunch is that he was going to try to rob me, and I interrupted his thought process (and took away his element of surprise) enough to make him re-think what he was about to do. Could it have been a guy just looking for a few dollars for gas? Sure... But there were just too many things out of place.  Stop for a second here and think of how you would approach someone in a similar setting if you honestly needed help from them...
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Tactical doesn't mean dressing in black SWAT gear and running around with a gun.  It means where do I have the advantage over a threat (parking away from other cars).  "Getting tactical" can be as simple as sitting with your back to a wall so no one can come from behind you, or parking at the other end of the lot.  It can be as complex as engaging multiple targets while using an egress route to cover.  Tactical advantage to me has always been making small adjustments to my behavior and thought process now that can give me a greater advantage later on, should the need arise.  Making note of who is where, and what things around me can be used to my advantage gives me more advantage over someone else.  I guess its all a mindset and I just don't let people get the drop on me.  To me, its just how I live... Maybe I am paranoid, but I just don't want to be a victim.

[marlin]

"open carry doesnt bother me its the gangsta wanna be's that freak me out I find kids dressed like gangsters make me feel far more threatened than a person with a gun holstered on their hip."

I agree.. I get a little on edge when I see a bunch of hoodrats walking around.. I usually like to check and ensure that the magazine is fully seated into my pistol at times like this... LOL and that I could quickly draw if needed. A guy with a pistol holstered will get the head nod.

[MADMAX]

Hunting I carry openly. Around town I'd rather not anyone know I have it.

[boneaddict]

I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.   

Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.

[fillthefreezer]

now here is a grey area from some family friends who are prosecuters, to be one hundred percent open carried you would have to use a lanyard or something because the grey areas enters what is concealed. a holster can be construed as such by a good argument in a courtroom to non-gun people....

[DoubleJ]

I open carry at home because CC is uncomfortable at times.  I have my gun on me at all times at home.  Not because of bad guys because we're in a pretty safe area from what I've seen in my 5 years there but, in Mason County, people have no qualms about letting their dogs run wherever the hell they want and I have 3 young boys and 2 dogs of my own in my yard almost constantly.

[Alchase]

I prefer concealed carry not cause I am worried about cops or public opinion, but because I want the bad guy to get his first warning when my 45 is going off, if he hears it before it kills him.
Carl

I agree, never give up an advantage 

just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.

My wife use to ask me questions like this all the time when we first met, now she confirms our "situational awareness" often when in public. Like picking a booth in a restaurant that allowes the best field of view. Or having her sit inside of me in the booth with my draw side towards her. She now understrands training and old habits are hard to break, even if you wanted to, I don't.

Most people go through daily life oblivious to what is taking place around them.

If you ever sit back and crowd watch, you can usually tell who are the problems in a crowd. You can also tell allot of times who is carrying. Though some are more comfortable carrying then others, a little subconscious tug on the shirt to ensure your weapon is covered or how you bend over, lol.

This is not paranoia, it is practicing and keeping aware of what is around you.

As for going tactical in a non-tactical situation? I find it just the opposite, I tend to notice things sooner because I am always assessing the environment around me. This has given me the advantage to either avoid or act before something goes tactical.

[PlateauNDN]

just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.

 I worked in LE, and I know for me, some of it comes from that.  But yes, I am always looking around and always know...1. Who is around me 2. Where nearest cover is 3. Where nearest concealment it 4. Where best egress is 5. What directions can I shoot safely without collateral damage, should the need arise. 

As far as bringing the situation on, I can say I am actually more inclined to resolve things with people at a lower level because I do not want to ever have to use my weapon. Let me use this situation that happened to me about 2 years ago. 

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I was traveling back from Oregon, and stopped at thea rest stop on I5 north, just north of Vancouver to re-arm myself, stretch my legs and have a smoke.  Knowing that it was 11pm, dark, rainy and this rest stop is tucked back off the highway.  I went to the far end of the lot where no one parks. 

On my way in I noticed a single 80's toyota hatch back parked right by the bathrooms.  There was female on the passenger side, shielding her face from being seen with her hand.  I took down the license plate because it just looked off to me being there the way it was.  I was standing with a friend and saw the guy through the trees and he was walking up the truck parking side.  Me being the only car there, I knew he was making his way to up come over to me.  As soon as he stepped off the curb into the car lot 30feet away he made a b-line to me with his head down, shoulders forward and hands in his hoody pocket.  I had my flashlight out, and light him up and ordered him to stop, he was close enough to me for my comfort.  He took two more steps, so I told him to stop again, and he complied and said he was out of gas with his wife and baby and looking for money.  I told him I didn't have any, and that he needed to leave me alone.  He called me an A--hole, said I needed to "chill" and walked off. 

I got back into my car and left and called 911 about a suspicious person at the rest stop.  The trooper called me about 30min later to tell me that he and the female with him (there was no kid) were arrested and wanted me to come back and write a statement (which I did).  I have no doubt that had I not been paying attention the situation could have ended a lot differently.  Had I not deescalated the situation the best I could at the lowest level I don't know what could have happened.  My hunch is that he was going to try to rob me, and I interrupted his thought process (and took away his element of surprise) enough to make him re-think what he was about to do. Could it have been a guy just looking for a few dollars for gas? Sure... But there were just too many things out of place.  Stop for a second here and think of how you would approach someone in a similar setting if you honestly needed help from them...
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Tactical doesn't mean dressing in black SWAT gear and running around with a gun.  It means where do I have the advantage over a threat (parking away from other cars).  "Getting tactical" can be as simple as sitting with your back to a wall so no one can come from behind you, or parking at the other end of the lot.  It can be as complex as engaging multiple targets while using an egress route to cover.  Tactical advantage to me has always been making small adjustments to my behavior and thought process now that can give me a greater advantage later on, should the need arise.  Making note of who is where, and what things around me can be used to my advantage gives me more advantage over someone else.  I guess its all a mindset and I just don't let people get the drop on me.  To me, its just how I live... Maybe I am paranoid, but I just don't want to be a victim.

Very well said.

I prefer concealed carry not cause I am worried about cops or public opinion, but because I want the bad guy to get his first warning when my 45 is going off, if he hears it before it kills him.
Carl

I agree, never give up an advantage 

just a simple q but how many people have actually been in any of the situations as mentioned ? is this a city thing ? do you really think about "bad guys" a 100% of the time your in a public place ? is this a cop thing ? dont you think you might bring some of the situations on your self by "getting tactical" when its a non tac situation ?maybe i was just brought up in a different "world" hope this doesn't offend anyone,just food for thought.

My wife use to ask me questions like this all the time when we first met, now she confirms our "situational awareness" often when in public. Like picking a booth in a restaurant that allowes the best field of view. Or having her sit inside of me in the booth with my draw side towards her. She now understrands training and old habits are hard to break, even if you wanted to, I don't.

Most people go through daily life oblivious to what is taking place around them.

If you ever sit back and crowd watch, you can usually tell who are the problems in a crowd. You can also tell allot of times who is carrying. Though some are more comfortable carrying then others, a little subconscious tug on the shirt to ensure your weapon is covered or how you bend over, lol.

This is not paranoia, it is practicing and keeping aware of what is around you.

As for going tactical in a non-tactical situation? I find it just the opposite, I tend to notice things sooner because I am always assessing the environment around me. This has given me the advantage to either avoid or act before something goes tactical.

   Also, well said.   One of my favorite quotes, "Pray for Peace, Train for War".

[GEARHEAD]

Mad.........i like all this situational and tactical awareness talk....seems you are giving up alot carrying open, seems you acknowledge the dangers of it and the paranoia it causes, seems like a great way to celebrate your freedom, lol..bottom line is this, if i'm having a bad day, if i cant get a gun and want one, and i see you with one, i can take it from you and there is probably nothing you can do about it, unless your a blackbelt in weapons retention, or more likely: just lucky. at the very least we will both be on the ground and you will be desperately fighting for retention and your life.

Tooth......that makes alot of sense, i admire your sense of fair play, i too am all for giving a criminal a fair chance.
i dont think we need to let a p.o.s. go, so he can do the same to somebodies wife or somebody else, i figure bird in the hand.

[toothfangclaw]

It has nothing to do about letting him go. You are protecting you and yours. If by a mad guy sees a gun my hip and says not worth it. Good, family safe. People on here and other many pro gun people talk so much how easy it would be to take a human life like they are some bug or animal. Fact of mater is, humans are not a deer, they are HUMAN, your own kind. Evil or not, no mater how deserving they are of a bullet in the chest. You killing a human will haunt you. Cops, military personal are messed up after killing humans and have to live with the demons attached to that moment. I just don't take taking a human as lightly as people here do, I guess. I am pro gun, just anti killing people unless it's last resort... That's my point... People are saying they won't give that person a warning to do the right thing in the moment before killing them. It isn't my job to be judge, joury, executor, unless it is last choice.... Guess I am in the minority on that.

[jaymark6655]

I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.   

Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.

I figured it was because they didn't have any room left in their pants. 

Bullying?  Really are you serious?  So do you feel intimidated everytime you see another hunting out in the field?

[pianoman9701]

I find that those that feel they need to carry openly in public (other than store clerks in a gun shop), are probably compensating for something they are lacking elsewhere, or inadequecies.   

Its just another form of bullying or intimidation.

I'm really shocked by this statement, Bone. I open carry everyday, especially during the summer when it's harder to conceal. I'm not attempting to intimidate anyone. I just don't have an adequate conceal holster for my .45 and I refuse to be a victim by not carrying. As far as compensating is concerned, BS to you on that.

I'm not sure where you live, Bone, but in the suburbs of Portland like here in Vancouver, you're an idiot if you don't carry.