Funny thing about non-toxic shot....

[Bigshooter]

Stilly bay, do you perfer to hug alder, maple, fir or hemlock?  Or is there another tree that you perfer to hug more than the ones i've listed? 
Someone please ban this nitwit. 

[Stilly bay]

Stilly bay, do you perfer to hug alder, maple, fir or hemlock?  Or is there another tree that you perfer to hug more than the ones i've listed? 
Someone please ban this nitwit.

So lead shot is a crutch for uneducated and irresponsible hunters...  I had no idea.

is that the best you got?

points in this thread have been misconstrued to the brink of hilarity.
my argument from the beginning has been that  steel is not as bad as its made out to be, and it is indeed very effective. but everyone chooses to read that as me saying that lead should be banned. two completely different things.
I also went so far as to say that I was against a supposed lead ban, but still people just read what they want and saw me as the harbinger of end of lead.

I did state the fact that lead is poisonous (we all know this to be true) and it is not a good idea to spread this in the environment. I never said that lead should be banned because of this, or that I support the potential lead ban what so ever. I did ask repeatedly why people thought it would be acceptable to shoot lead into areas where it was once not. granted I was lured farther into the political than I normally like to go. but my message has stayed the same throughout. again I guess people read into it what ever they wanted.

 if your going to bash me at least bring something to the table that is relevant.  snide comments, name calling or taking me out of context and subversion are great signs that you really don't know what your talking about or don't have a leg to stand on, and for that I thank you. it warmed the cockles of my heart when piano man threw in the towel with his brittle statement about arguing with an imbecile.

so back to the beginning: if anyone can give me a real non anecdotal reason as to why steel shot is NOT an effective means to kill upland birds I am all ears. I don't giv a chit if lead is better than steel or if steel sucks, just tell me you can't successfully kill birds with steel shot at reasonable distances, and back it up with some real data. I am all for learning new things.

 and to a much lesser degree I would also be willing  to hear why it is acceptable to shoot poisonous lead into the dirt when we could be shooting a non toxic alternative instead without much sacrifice to ourselves?

[WAcoyotehunter]

Stilly- you'll find pretty quick that if you disagree or use too open of a mind you'll be called a tree hugger here.   

Lead is good for killing birds, no doubt about it.  I don't know if I would support a ban on shot or not, probably not on private lands.  I know when I go quail hunting it's pretty easy to go through a box of shells...that's 1.5 lbs of lead.  I wouldn't dump 1.5 lbs of oil on my property...   Just a thought- not trying to change any opinions here.

[dontgetcrabs]

I did state the fact that lead is poisonous (we all know this to be true) and it is not a good idea to spread this in the environment.

Why?  Didn't it come from the environment?

[Shoffy]

I did state the fact that lead is poisonous (we all know this to be true) and it is not a good idea to spread this in the environment.

Why?  Didn't it come from the environment?

That was my question earlier. Didn't lead come from the ground anyway??

[WAcoyotehunter]

Yep- go eat some.  Lots of things come from the environment that are bad.  BTW- I have a few gallons of motor oil that i need rid of, do you mind if I come spread it around your yard? 

Lead mined from the earth and lead spread across the surface of the earth are different things. 

[singleshot12]

lmao,This thread has been some great entertainment, thanks to all the imbecile's . I see the point Stilly Bay is trying to make! All a person has to do is take their tunnel vision blinders off

I miss lead too but once I learned how to shoot steel(which took awhile) I still kill just as many birds with the same amount of shells as with lead. It's also a feeling of (doing your part) knowing you're not responsible for spreading a known toxic substance around in the environment.

[pianoman9701]

Stilly- you'll find pretty quick that if you disagree or use too open of a mind you'll be called a tree hugger here.   

Lead is good for killing birds, no doubt about it.  I don't know if I would support a ban on shot or not, probably not on private lands.  I know when I go quail hunting it's pretty easy to go through a box of shells...that's 1.5 lbs of lead.  I wouldn't dump 1.5 lbs of oil on my property...   Just a thought- not trying to change any opinions here.

First of all, Stilly has shown his colors. He's not hunter by any stretch of imagination. I question if he ever even goes into the woods or has any backcountry skills whatsoever. Secondly, If you go through a box of shells every time you go bird hunting, you need to hit the trap club on their shooting night each week. Lastly, there's a huge difference between shooting over water and shooting over land. Lead shot in ponds means that the bottom feeders will be sucking it up in an area where concentrated shooting has occurred. We've seen the problems that it causes for the swans and I'm glad it was stopped. But, hunting on land is different. You're not shooting in a confined area from a fixed position and the animals are feeding on grasses, worms, carrion, etc. A dead bird may or may not have one or two pellets in it. This is in no way comparable to the concentration in water. I'm not sure where your oil comment even applies. It was a bizarre comparison.

The proponents of a lead ammunition ban are going after your gun rights, not a perceived danger to wildlife. It's just like the gray wolf. They don't care about the animals. They care about stopping our activities. They know that lead is cheap and that it's effective. They know that steel won't mushroom and they don't care that it's less humane for killing than lead shot. They want your gun rights, plain and simple. They believe that the 2nd Amendment is BS and should be removed from our beloved Constitution. Banning lead would be a great way to limit the number of folks who could afford to buy ammunition.

[Blackjaw]

What is the bioavailabilty of lead shot?

[boneaddict]

Red Dawg.    Ever been there?   Interesting place for sure.  Not alot of Upland birds running around it.   Lead shoots nice, its got great qualities obviously, but for how much of it that salts out there I can see why they want to go that route.    I don't agree with it in high caliber.   

I've been cleaning up at the LT the last couple weeks and I wondered how much lead has been put into the earth there.  Interesting enough, it is surrounded by signs that say non-toxic shot zone.   

[JLS]

Interesting how some in their never ending wisdom and omniscience can proclaim whether or not someone is a "real" hunter based on their opinions.

Regardless of any chest thumping bravado, I would sincerely hope that every hunter on here is an environmentalist of some sort, no matter how uncool it may seem to admit it.

[pianoman9701]

Interesting how some in their never ending wisdom and omniscience can proclaim whether or not someone is a "real" hunter based on their opinions.

Regardless of any chest thumping bravado, I would sincerely hope that every hunter on here is an environmentalist of some sort, no matter how uncool it may seem to admit it.

Thank you for recognizing wisdom when you see it. I certainly do.  We have a few "members" who are not hunters. One of them is a pro-wolf guy who masquerades as a hunter and has proven himself not to be. He jacks every wolf thread with misinformation and ignorance about wildlife. As well, Stilly has made several comments that show a complete lack of knowledge about ballistics. If he is a hunter, he knows very little about his firearms at all.

As far as being an environmentalist, I work several days of the year improving habitat, I practice no trace camping, and I've always left the woods better than I found them. This is in direct opposition to a majority of anti-hunters who almost never participate in habitat restoration, usually never leave their computers - never mind get familiar with wildlife and the woods, and who don't support groups who practice conservation, only groups who protest and legate against guns and hunting. I practice conservation. I don't know what you do, JLS, but I do know that groups like the Defenders of Wildlife, PETA, and the HSUS, who oppose hunting and who back initiatives like non-lead ammunition initiatives, don't help animals at all. They only oppose hunting and the people who do the real work in the woods, the hunters.

[JLS]

Piano,

Here's my beef.  Someone offers a differing opinion, and he's labeled a tree hugger and is asked to be banned.  You show me one time in this thread that Stilly was disrespectful?  If you folks don't want to argue then don't. 

I think it's more than a little disingenious though, to question if someone qualifies as a "legitimate hunter", whatever that may be, because they don't agree with someone.  I think a lot of folks on here are complete hacks, but you don't find me calling them tree-huggers, rednecks, whatever.

The simple fact of this thread is that steel shot kills upland birds just fine.  I've used it, been there done that got the shirt.

A *censored*ty shot is a *censored*ty shot, regardless of whether you're using steel or lead. 

Yes, I am an environmentalist.  I do plenty for hunting and fishing, and what I do I'll keep to myself.  I could care less what PETA, DOW, and HSUS do.  But I would hope that all of us care at least a little bit about what we are doing to the environment and try to find ways to lessen that impact.  If using steel is one of them so be it. 

[Wenatcheejay]

Interesting how some in their never ending wisdom and omniscience can proclaim whether or not someone is a "real" hunter based on their opinions.

Regardless of any chest thumping bravado, I would sincerely hope that every hunter on here is an environmentalist of some sort, no matter how uncool it may seem to admit it.

Thank you for recognizing wisdom when you see it. I certainly do.  We have a few "members" who are not hunters. One of them is a pro-wolf guy who masquerades as a hunter and has proven himself not to be. He jacks every wolf thread with misinformation and ignorance about wildlife. As well, Stilly has made several comments that show a complete lack of knowledge about ballistics. If he is a hunter, he knows very little about his firearms at all.

As far as being an environmentalist, I work several days of the year improving habitat, I practice no trace camping, and I've always left the woods better than I found them. This is in direct opposition to a majority of anti-hunters who almost never participate in habitat restoration, usually never leave their computers - never mind get familiar with wildlife and the woods, and who don't support groups who practice conservation, only groups who protest and legate against guns and hunting. I practice conservation. I don't know what you do, JLS, but I do know that groups like the Defenders of Wildlife, PETA, and the HSUS, who oppose hunting and who back initiatives like non-lead ammunition initiatives, don't help animals at all. They only oppose hunting and the people who do the real work in the woods, the hunters.

(((YES))) Conservation - the careful utilization of a natural resource in order to prevent depletion.

Envornmentalism - any person who advocates or works to protect the air, water, animals, plants, and other natural resources from pollution or its effects.

Protect the air, water, animals, plants, resources from whom? Hunters, humans, loggers, miners, fishermen? Loaded word exploited by Global Warming dunderheads. PETA, HSUS, DFW, all are "envornmentalists." I don't support them in any way.

I support The North American Model. I don't see it lacking. I believe the only reason liberals have become so concerned is they want the funds that have been used for decades to manage these resources.

Look at some of my posts. Things like for Big Game, remove your bullet or the entire gut sack voluntary. If you choose, use non toxic. I wanted to be in line with WA Dept of Ecology. (Stupidly, I'd consider them an expert.) For that it is recommened to drink motor oil  yep true "envornmentalism" there, one less human.

[bobcat]

PETA and the HSUS are definitely not environmentalists.

I would call them animal rights groups.

Their agenda has nothing to do with clean air and water.