Quality Elk vs Bull Elk Special Permit?

[dreamingbig]

Because they don't want to give archery hunters two categories to apply for that are worth anything.  The current bull elk permits for archery are mostly worthless.  I suggested letting all user groups apply for the end of September hunt but they (WDFW) did not respond.

[D-Rock425]

 

[bobcat]

I agree with many of the thoughts already posted. Most of the archery bull elk permits could just as well be in the "bull" category instead of quality. But then there wouldn't be much to apply for in quality and they would sell very few quality applications to people with an archery tag.

There are quite a few hunts that probably should be in a different category. We've already discussed the Margaret bull elk permits that got switched from "bull" to "quality" this year. That isn't right in my opinion; at the very least the September Margaret rifle hunt should be in the quality category. But, I'm pretty sure they made the change so that a lot more people would buy applications in the bull category. If it wasn't for Margaret, there wouldn't be anything worth applying for, for those with a westside elk tag.

The main issue here, IMO, is that there are two categories where only one is needed. Put all bull elk permits in the same category. Let the hunters decide if it's a hunt they want to apply for. The best hunts will have more people applying for them, and will take more points to draw, on average.

As for the September rifle elk permits on the eastside, for which there is only 1 permit per unit, if you think that's unfair because the same type of hunt isn't offered for archery hunters, like someone else said, you are free to buy a rifle tag and apply for those hunts, and if drawn, hunt it with a bow.

[Fireant11]

Good points Bobcat!

I too feel there should only be a single bull special permit.  I know the state doesn't because it doesn't bring in the revenue. (Yep, it's all about the Benjamins!).

I don't think the modern rifle hunt during the rut, with only 1 tag is unfair.  This, IMHO, DOES qualify as a "Quality Hunt".  My point is either move the archer bull tags into the standard "Bull Elk" special permit category, or change the date to where it would qualify as a "Quality Hunt".

[adamR]

I agree that it would be nice to make some bull permits for muzzleloaders and archery as well.  But have you actually hunted the general season modern bull permits around the yakima area?  These are anything but easy to kill a decent bull.  To be angry because modern hunters get 1 hunter with an awesome hunt is rediculous. 
I think what they should do is add 1 or two more modern hunters during the september qualtity hunt and then add a late season "bull permit" for archery and muzzleloaders.

You could keep all the same amount of permits just switch some numbers around a little.

[billdo5]

one is a rut hunt (quality) and one isnt (bull elk)

Not true at all...

[MLBowhunting]

For archery alot of the time the woods are shut down during the hunt.  Also the toutle and mudflow are quality but they are the same elk that are in the margraet

[billdo5]

For archery alot of the time the woods are shut down during the hunt.  Also the toutle and mudflow are quality but they are the same elk that are in the margraet

what do u mean by the wood are shut down?

[kirkl]

one is a rut hunt (quality) and one isnt (bull elk)

Not true at all...

Well what is your reasoning?

For archery alot of the time the woods are shut down during the hunt.  Also the toutle and mudflow are quality but they are the same elk that are in the margraet

what do u mean by the wood are shut down?

As in its fire season?

[Fullabull]

I believe the underlying frustration from archers (me being one of them) is that they keep taking away opportunity from the archery hunters and keep adding opportunity to the the MF hunters. They keep taking away permits, moving the season further away from the rut. Archery is the only group to not hunt during the rut and has the most difficult hunt. Think about it, it doesn't make any sense to do that.

And just telling folks that if they don't like it, hunt with the other group sounds like my teenager. There is actually no reason for them not to allow all three user groups to hunt at the same time during many of these prime rut hunts the MF's and ML get!

Here is what I see for prime rut permits issued per group:
AR Prime rut permits: 0   
MF Prime rut permits: 68
ML Prime rut permits: 180

There is definitely something wrong with that...

[billdo5]

one is a rut hunt (quality) and one isnt (bull elk)

Not true at all...

Well what is your reasoning?

For archery alot of the time the woods are shut down during the hunt.  Also the toutle and mudflow are quality but they are the same elk that are in the margraet

what do u mean by the wood are shut down?

As in its fire season?

The bull elk hunt are still rut hunts its just a way for the state to make more money.. if u look at the regs the dates are during the rut for archery elk in both categories.

[Fullabull]

Bill....not for the archer hunts...they are just during general season which is not the prime rut in any way..

[bobcat]

Fullabull,

That's because the GENERAL archery season is during the rut, or just before the rut. The archery season is the best and easiest time of the year to hunt elk, especially bull elk. If you have an archery tag, there is no need to draw a special permit. You already get to hunt the prime time.

I wouldn't say the muzzleloader permits are "prime rut." They are after the rut.

Not to mention, there is a definite advantage for the archery season just in the fact that you are the first hunters in the woods.

Also, you are free to hunt whichever season you want with your bow. It's up to you when you want to hunt. If you don't like the September archery season, then buy a muzzleloader or modern firearm tag.

[Fullabull]

Bobcat,

You are mistaken on when prime rut is for elk. There has been enough postings on this forum from folks who know when the prime rutting starts for the elk and when it ends. Just follow the MF and ML permit hunts to know when those times are. The board knows, that is why the MF and ML permit hunts are set that way.

I believe you know this to be true also. Archery gets to hunt during the pre-rutting period which is better then hunting November with archery equipment for sure. But to not allow some archery hunters the same opportunity as MF and ML hunters is just plain wrong.

[bobcat]

No, I am not mistaken. The peak of the rut is just after early archery season ends. Did I say any different? Yes, early archery is pre-rut and that is a time when bull elk can be called in and/or located with a bugle.

Muzzleloader season is definitely after the peak of the rut. (Oct 6-12)

But yes you are right, there are a few (very few) permits for modern firearm tags that are during the peak of the rut (looks like this year they are either Sept 24-28 or Sept 17-30 depending on which side of the mountains.)

And again, as a bow hunter, you are free to apply for those hunts the same as anybody else. You just need a modern firearm tag to do so.