Discover pass, a honest debate

[toothfangclaw]

So I know everyone here seem to hate it. But why? What is the difference between the pass and s user tax, ie tolls on bridges? Is it because of what it effects? What I mean is, because it covers so much land and effects so many more people, un-like a tolled bridge that people choose to use despite the other options? Or?

Personally, I think it sucks. If they are going to do this, then I would like to see a "life time pass" with a substantial price break.

Anyway, a honest questioning, good natured debate and if possible, talks about the rules etc.. Get it all out in the open.

[sebek556]

the problems I have with the discovery pass 
1 the main user group targeted it outdoorman, but the vast majority of the money goes to parks not back into the woods
2 just like any money you pay in this state everyone has their hands in the pot and so little of it makes it where it was supposed to go.
3 you are paying to use unimproved public land, meaning they didn't pay anything for it or maintain.

[toothfangclaw]

the problems I have with the discovery pass 

3 you are paying to use unimproved public land, meaning they didn't pay anything for it or maintain.

so by saying that, would you have a problem if you were charged a fee per park you go to? Like if you went to the ice caves and had to pay $5 to play? That's ok?

[pjb3]

the problems I have with the discovery pass 
1 the main user group targeted it outdoorman, but the vast majority of the money goes to parks not back into the woods
2 just like any money you pay in this state everyone has their hands in the pot and so little of it makes it where it was supposed to go.
3 you are paying to use unimproved public land, meaning they didn't pay anything for it or maintain.

 

[smdave]

We as hunting and fisherman already pay to play, our money should be counted as so. We should not have to pay more. Things like the Discover pass should be for the others that want to use the outdoors (tax). Bikers hikers etc.

If I go to Mount Rainer I espect to pay more.

[shoot-em-dead]

Why do we have to pay another tax. I have yet to see any forest roads upgraded. The only maintenance they do is half ass fixes to washouts and that is only to let the loggers in. The parks I have seen that require a discovery pass were paid for by tax payers and the money to maintain them has already been assessed in local property taxes. Also when you get a building permit you pay for impact fees. Impact fees usually include parks.
I am sick of tax tax tax. And that is all it is.

[jackelope]

I didn't mind paying for it. As soon as my kid was old enough to get out and see the world, play with friends, go camping, etc. we started spending a lot more time at state parks than we ever have before. We go to Pearrygin Lake state park and other places like that. I like having the pass because I don't have to worry about having cash to pay the day use fee. I don't mind paying that either. I can see everyone's argument in this when we have to use it for unimproved state land and the like, and if thats all I needed or wanted it for, then I'd be pissed too but the way I see it, the $30 I payed for it is a small price to pay for the fun that my family has had at the multiple state parks we go to every year to camp, play in the water, swim, hike, etc. Most of the places I hunt I don't need the Discover Pass anyway and those that do it seems to be ok to use the stewardship pass I got with my hunting/fishing license.
Just my  I don't expect everyone to agree.

[washelkhunter]

Ok, once again. Me and my son last year were into the season to the tune of $550. In sept i was driving in state/dnr land above Amboy looking for a likely spot to get out and stretch the legs when up rolls this guy in a red DNR p/u and hands me a flyer singing  the praises of the new DP. I told him he was nukin futs if he thought i was going to pay 30 bucks just for the priviledge of being on state land. I also told him that he had best not try to enforce this during MF season or he'd probably get killed. So, here we are we paying  the highest fuel taxes in the nation to build and maintain state roads, paying state sales taxes to buy a licence issued by the state, paying dealer fees and mitigation fees/taxes. Paying county taxes, property taxes, taxes taxes taxes.  I payed a handsome price by any measure for licenses, fees, permit apps, raffles and donations for the priviledge of hunting what the state claims are their deer. And now these moneygrubbin mother-friggin bost9rds think they are going to squeeze another 30 bucks out of me just to be on state land to hunt  deer/elk after they already gigged me for the ticket? To support state parks that i dont even use. The worst part is that WDFW never went to bat for the hunters and fishers that support it. Its high time the day trippers, campers, pickers, photogs, mtn bikers etc started pitching in to support the resource. But to hit us up as well is just evil greed. We're the ones who built this all up since it all began. And we are still the ones paying. But now it just feels like RAPE$ 

P.S. If you are buying the DP then you are validating the states greed while at the same time pissin on the backs of your brother hunter/fishers. Yeah thats right im callin you out on it.   

[Special T]

Pay to play is reasonable... My problem with it is the money targets one group to pay for another at least on the west side... Parks had a user fee  10 years ago and  it bombed. fact! parks users on avg are lower income..... Fact Outdoors men have $ Most outdoors men do not use parks facilities except boat launches.  If parks were to try and self fund they need to re-evaluate their camping fees and number of spots. that seems to be the one area where they make money.  I refuse to buy NOT because i think parks are bad...  The DP is DESIGNED to tax one group  for another use.

[toothfangclaw]

Very interesting guys.

[washelkhunter]

What Wa needs to do is divest itself of 85% of its parks.

[Special T]

Not necessarily... Their main problem is they need to operate them in a way that focuses on REVENUE! There are aspects of parks that they could change... Ever tired to get a camping spot at a state park? There is a waiting list... What does that tell you? There is potential to increase Revenue... They could either increase the cost, and or increase the number of spaces... Considering how easy it would be to put in unimproved spaces they could put a lot of them in and increase their take, especially during the summer. The state parks that will really have trouble will be the ones with lots of day use. They cost $$$ to maintain yet users are not willing to pay to use them, at least to the same degree that it costs to maintain... Think of parks like Lake Samamish State park in Issaquah.  It seems to me that Without funding from the state the Parks are jolted into reality of how out of date the parks are...  In some ways you can compare them to private enterprise... How many RV parks have you driven past? I knew an owner of one. People are willing to pay good money for some simple improvements people are willing to pay $25 a night for tent spaces and $35-50 a night depending upon the size and hookups for trailers and Motor homes...   AND the State has a WAIT LIST for this service!   I spent a few days at the state park on Cama Beach Cameno Island... Those sold out FAST if you did not get you online reservation in the day or 3 they took reservations for the summer.     

I like parks I think they are good. I am just upset that instead of changing with the times they try and steal $$$ from me to pay for anothers use... IF YOU USE THE STATE PARKS BUY A DISCOVER PASS! You should feel good doing so. 

[buckfvr]

To me, its the continued creative efforts of the state to find ways to tax us again and again for things we have been taxed on for ever.  Compound taxation on so many things.

The people who run this state need to find themselves down and out to view life from a perspective they dont understand.  We need to overturn the political gravy train.

[toothfangclaw]

Is this taxation without representation?

[Special T]

No, its stealing from Peter to pay Paul! 

[Wacenturion]

Just another unjustified tax.....and certainly not the last.

[Wacenturion]

No, its stealing from Peter to pay Paul! 

Yeah, and there is beginning to be more Pauls' than Peters'.

[Dick in the Dirt]

Dp sales way down,keep the wallet closed and the jerks will find a way to fix their screw up.The people who use the parks must pay for them.Than again we are all paying for the Ferry system,so they figure it should work on the parks.

[fireweed]

Agree.  Discover pass is bad in soooo many ways, but mostly because hunters pay pay pay, then pay to use undeveloped state land, and the money is funneled to State parks that don't allow hunting!!!!  I'm ok with buying one for state park use or even developed sites on DNR like campgrounds and trailheads, but the whole use for timberland is a crock--and according to the original language not supposed to be that way.  Only Goldmark of the DNR saw a way to get his greedy fingers into hunters for a measly $2.60 (you can bet the DNR is lobbying for a bigger chunk of the pie and will use our outrage against us).  They'll keep squeezing the golden goose (hunters) until it's dead. 

[mtman]

I forgot all about the impact fees on buildings. that was a good point. I built a house 4 years ago and had to pay 1,800 dollars for my impact on local parks. We had a park just down the street from us. We would go play there all the time. Then a year went buy and they fenced off a big chunk of it for gardens. Went to the city to ask for a key for the lock, sure 12 dollars for a 10' x 10' spot. F that I already payed for that.

Dp is the same crap they will take everything they can, and do as little as they can. If they came up witha life time pass 10 years from now, They will come up with a different pass that you need. Im broke now and I will be broke then.

[toothfangclaw]

Very interesting info gents, thanks! ... Time to find a place off the grid! do whatever I want. LOL

[BOWHUNTER45]

No, its stealing from Peter to pay Paul! 

Yeah, and there is beginning to be more Pauls' than Peters'.

 

[RBurke]

Very interesting info gents, thanks! ... Time to find a place off the grid! do whatever I want. LOL

One aspect of paying to use state lands that I have noticed is that....we pay to use the lands, but there are still gates on a lot of the roads.  I've heard that the DNR has been pressured to open more gates to allow more access since people are required to pay to use the lands.

[snowshoes22]

It would be nice if it covered everything.  To launch a boat at Banks Lake or the sun lakes you still have to pay a $5 to $7 launch fee.  Oh and then not to mention a NW Forest pass to use trail heads in the cascades.  With permits and licenses going up its getting kinda tight for outdoor rec.   

[nontypical176]

I agree with many of the complaints above and additionally....I'm too dam stupid to remember to pull it out of the glove box and hang it on the rearview....Have enough problems just trying to remember to gather all my gear before leaving my rig, last thing I'm thinking about is a glorified parking permit to enjoy the woods.  Wish it was a sticker on my license plate/window or something.  I constantly forget things, wish I could help it but....I'm just human and don't need the hassle of explaining why the pass was not visible every time I park my rig.  Getting a ticket for something I paid for and then having to make sure everyone knows I'm just a dumba** is irritating.  I can't even remember where I left my coat.  So they write a ticket and I have to fight it....Ugh...its getting old.  I remember to hang it up there about half the time...and thats trying hard, but them law officers remember to look for it every time they see my rig. 

I wish there was another option.  I realize that some people don't want a sticker on their vehicle but it wouldn't bug me a bit and would have saved me from 3 seperate headaches so far. 

[oldcamper]

Well you don't go and pay extra money for a resturant because it has food, you pay extra because it has good food. Put the money where it is supposed to go.