Post by: splitshot on March 19, 2013, 10:16:41 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 19, 2013, 10:23:54 PM
:twocents:
Post by: hillbilli on March 19, 2013, 10:34:41 PM
Post by: 100 grain on March 19, 2013, 10:37:16 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 19, 2013, 11:09:06 PM
why in the world would anyone buy a 9 mm gun? people are selling the gun for more than it sells for at gunshops and gunbroker, gallery of guns, etc. and it is the one bullet you can not get and it sells out first. it is crazy. i bought a new xdm for $500 and sold it for $650. plum crazy? mike w:chuckle:
Were you bored when you posted this?
I mean, you did buy one yourself and then proved your own point of your question as to why things sell on gunbroker, gun shops, etc. for the crazy prices.
Congrats on your +$150 flip of your XDM.
:chuckle:
Post by: Jburke on March 19, 2013, 11:54:18 PM
why in the world would anyone buy a 9 mm gun? people are selling the gun for more than it sells for at gunshops and gunbroker, gallery of guns, etc. and it is the one bullet you can not get and it sells out first. it is crazy. i bought a new xdm for $500 and sold it for $650. plum crazy? mike wWhy not? Usually cheap ammo and highly available everywhere you go. Low recoil in a small package. The felt recoil between a subcompact 9 and the same sized 45 is going to be quite a bit different. I have both and love them both. 9 as my carry gun, and the 45 comes out of the safe every once in awhile for various occasions. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 9 in a self defense situation. Also, every caliber right now is selling as soon as it hits the shelves. :twocents:
Post by: ICEMAN on March 20, 2013, 04:31:21 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 20, 2013, 06:09:07 AM
Post by: Arnbo on March 20, 2013, 06:22:34 AM
A enemy with 9mmwould not put them down and they continue to shoot back
Iwill take the advise from a man who had first hand seen what a9 mm will and will not
Do.9mm or a 380 you can not give me one.wimpy and when my life counts on it
I know a lot people will be on here saying what a great round it is ,For popping paper maybe.self defense Noway.
Post by: jackelope on March 20, 2013, 07:32:36 AM
Two in the chest from a 9 or 45 you're just as dead.Definitely more deader when it's a .45. Not sure what you're thinking there.
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 20, 2013, 07:45:23 AM
sorry I guess I really don't have any first hand experience with being shot in the chest with either. Plan to keep it that way I hope.Two in the chest from a 9 or 45 you're just as dead.Definitely more deader when it's a .45. Not sure what you're thinking there.
Post by: DoubleJ on March 20, 2013, 07:50:12 AM
Like I have said before Mybrother has told me of times where shooting
A enemy with 9mmwould not put them down and they continue to shoot back
Iwill take the advise from a man who had first hand seen what a9 mm will and will not
Do.9mm or a 380 you can not give me one.wimpy and when my life counts on it
I know a lot people will be on here saying what a great round it is ,For popping paper maybe.self defense Noway.
Was this the military? If so, they were using FMJ 9mm ball ammo. No expansion and almost 100% complete pass through. Much different than JHP that is avalible today.
.45 ball ammo would probably act about the same as your buddy saw with the 9mm
Post by: DoubleJ on March 20, 2013, 07:56:02 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.btfh.net%2Fshoot%2Fimages%2Fbullet-test-6%2Fhst.jpg&hash=5998c093090082a26f1d68da98e3c98c47da5764)
Considering I can pack twice as many rounds of 9mm at half the recoil of a .45, personally, I'm ok with .08" smaller hole.
Post by: h20hunter on March 20, 2013, 07:59:59 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on March 20, 2013, 08:12:47 AM
No pistol is a death ray.
Post by: BsB on March 20, 2013, 08:14:18 AM
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on March 20, 2013, 08:14:52 AM
Less damage to everything or everyone else when you miss everything you shoot at under realtime stressfire. :chuckle:
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 20, 2013, 08:29:00 AM
Post by: CP on March 20, 2013, 08:43:17 AM
Post by: DoubleJ on March 20, 2013, 08:47:26 AM
ref: http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm)
So, do you think that bullet technology has come quite a ways since 1997 when this chart was originally made or not? Personally, I have a feeling that the past 16 years of technological advancements have been quite good to ammunition choices.
Post by: demontang on March 20, 2013, 08:51:16 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on March 20, 2013, 08:54:12 AM
Man Dejavu :o Always wonder, how many people your brother shot with his 9 and why isn't he using a M16 instead, heck even Cobra pilots will jam a M4 in the cockpit (really no room for it) so they don't get stuck with just a pistol, which is a last resort/defensive weapon.Like I have said before Mybrother has told me of times where shooting
A enemy with 9mmwould not put them down and they continue to shoot back
Iwill take the advise from a man who had first hand seen what a9 mm will and will not
Do.9mm or a 380 you can not give me one.wimpy and when my life counts on it
I know a lot people will be on here saying what a great round it is ,For popping paper maybe.self defense Noway.
Was this the military? If so, they were using FMJ 9mm ball ammo. No expansion and almost 100% complete pass through. Much different than JHP that is avalible today.
.45 ball ammo would probably act about the same as your buddy saw with the 9mm
What I get from that chart, pick whatever caliber you like. Then get good ammo. I thought the fbi was using the .40, why if the .45 is better?
Post by: DoubleJ on March 20, 2013, 08:55:00 AM
Ill stick with my 45acp. Ive done lots of talking and reading on this subject and its pretty clear a 45 is supirior if you can handle it. Hell the armybhas said that the 9mm is not combat effective that should tell you something. Look at the fbi ballistics reports too the 45 has a edge just in physics bigger hole faster bleed out. 9MM is better then nothing and ok for smaller or recoil shy people.
It's all about what you feel comfortable with. 2 or 3 decades ago, you really should have carried a larger caliber. Today, with the ballistics differences between cartriges growing smaller and smaller every year, recoil, carrying capacity, gun size, etc. arguing over which caliber to carry is splitting hairs. Shoot as many as you can and pick what you can comfortably handle.
Post by: CP on March 20, 2013, 08:56:38 AM
ref: http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm)
So, do you think that bullet technology has come quite a ways since 1997 when this chart was originally made or not? Personally, I have a feeling that the past 16 years of technological advancements have been quite good to ammunition choices.
Probably, but there are a lot of good loads on that chart that are still very popular.
Post by: DoubleJ on March 20, 2013, 08:56:55 AM
Man Dejavu :o Always wonder, how many people your brother shot with his 9 and why isn't he using a M16 instead, heck even Cobra pilots will jam a M4 in the cockpit (really no room for it) so they don't get stuck with just a pistol, which is a last resort/defensive weapon.Like I have said before Mybrother has told me of times where shooting
A enemy with 9mmwould not put them down and they continue to shoot back
Iwill take the advise from a man who had first hand seen what a9 mm will and will not
Do.9mm or a 380 you can not give me one.wimpy and when my life counts on it
I know a lot people will be on here saying what a great round it is ,For popping paper maybe.self defense Noway.
Was this the military? If so, they were using FMJ 9mm ball ammo. No expansion and almost 100% complete pass through. Much different than JHP that is avalible today.
.45 ball ammo would probably act about the same as your buddy saw with the 9mm
I was always told that on the battlefield, a pistol is meant for you to use to be able to fight your way to a rifle.
Post by: magnanimous_j on March 20, 2013, 10:44:39 AM
Ill stick with my 45acp. Ive done lots of talking and reading on this subject and its pretty clear a 45 is supirior if you can handle it. Hell the armybhas said that the 9mm is not combat effective that should tell you something. Look at the fbi ballistics reports too the 45 has a edge just in physics bigger hole faster bleed out. 9MM is better then nothing and ok for smaller or recoil shy people.
Three things,
1) The military is forced to use FMJ ammo. Modern hollow points go a long way in making up the diameter difference
2) Combat effective is not the same as Self Defense effective.
3) When a bullet goes into flesh, it creates a stretch cavity which then crashes back down to size. Human flesh is especially elastic, so the idea of “a bigger hole for better bleeding” is kind of a myth. In fact, given the higher velocity of the 9mm, it creates a greater stretch cavity which will often lead to greater internal bleeding than a 45 will.
Either caliber requires hitting something vital for the shot to be quickly lethal. In the civilian world, only 5% of gunshot wounds are fatal.
Post by: Fisherdave10 on March 20, 2013, 04:55:23 PM
Post by: Atroxus on March 20, 2013, 07:14:21 PM
... There are so many ignorant people on thisforumplanet...(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhfboards.hockeysfuture.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ffacepalm.gif&hash=cc6bc6442bbbcd009dc2e9c5e9a611af95b45a2e)
Fixed that for ya. :P
Post by: rtspring on March 20, 2013, 07:22:47 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 20, 2013, 07:23:23 PM
... There are so many ignorant people on this forum that I felt I should chime in just once to join the crowd...(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhfboards.hockeysfuture.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ffacepalm.gif&hash=cc6bc6442bbbcd009dc2e9c5e9a611af95b45a2e)
Fixed that for ya. :P
No, that's better. :chuckle:
Post by: cwuwildcat on March 20, 2013, 07:24:35 PM
I can shoot a 45 fine, my wife can't. I've got a 9mm by the bed in case she needs something.
Post by: hillbilli on March 20, 2013, 09:34:07 PM
Post by: runamuk on March 20, 2013, 09:48:37 PM
Post by: demontang on March 20, 2013, 10:19:09 PM
Post by: snowpack on March 20, 2013, 10:21:57 PM
Post by: Alchase on March 21, 2013, 06:54:16 AM
Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and speacial forces use a 45 then?
Most don't
Post by: Alchase on March 21, 2013, 06:59:16 AM
Navy SEALS Sig 226 or Sig 228 (standard issue)
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 21, 2013, 09:35:26 AM
FBI standard issue Glock 22And another in the "most" category....
Navy SEALS Sig 226 or Sig 228 (standard issue)
WSP swat team standard issue is the S&W M&P .40
Post by: ICEMAN on March 22, 2013, 03:56:46 PM
Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and speacial forces use a 45 then?
They have small wee wee's ?
Post by: turkeyfeather on March 22, 2013, 04:10:19 PM
Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and speacial forces use a 45 then?If your going to make up facts to prove a point make sure it's not one that can be so easily debunked. 9mm will take down anything a .45 will.
Post by: splitshot on March 22, 2013, 06:08:19 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on March 22, 2013, 06:23:56 PM
Post by: Jburke on March 22, 2013, 06:37:19 PM
The 9mm rounds are hard to find cause that is the most popular handgun cartridge in the US. But if you keep looking you will find some. I got very lucky and scored 1000 rnds recently. Add that to the 600 I already had and I think I am good for awhile.Yep. Popular calibers sell the fastest.
Post by: Fisherdave10 on March 22, 2013, 06:49:25 PM
:chuckle:Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and special forces use a 45 then?
They have small wee wee's ?
Most L.E. in this country use .40S&W.
Most elite military units still use 9mm.
Post by: turkeyfeather on March 22, 2013, 06:57:19 PM
According to my good friend (who's in LE) most PD's issue 9mm and that officers that use .40's buy their own.:chuckle:Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and special forces use a 45 then?uy them
They have small wee wee's ?
Most L.E. in this country use .40S&W.
Most elite military units still use 9mm.
Post by: Wild Bill on March 22, 2013, 07:34:18 PM
Two in the chest from a 9 or 45 you're just as dead.Definitely more deader when it's a .45. Not sure what you're thinking there.
Dont know how much more dead you can get than dead.
WB
Post by: DoubleJ on March 22, 2013, 09:11:50 PM
According to my good friend (who's in LE) most PD's issue 9mm and that officers that use .40's buy their own.:chuckle:Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and special forces use a 45 then?uy them
They have small wee wee's ?
Most L.E. in this country use .40S&W.
Most elite military units still use 9mm.
:yeah:
Post by: JLS on March 22, 2013, 09:16:19 PM
According to my good friend (who's in LE) most PD's issue 9mm and that officers that use .40's buy their own.:chuckle:Anyone have a good reason why most swat, fbi hostage, and special forces use a 45 then?uy them
They have small wee wee's ?
Most L.E. in this country use .40S&W.
Most elite military units still use 9mm.
:yeah:
I don't know about nationwide, but here in WA you'll find very few LE agencies running 9mms. The majority of the SWAT teams will be shooting 45s, either a 1911 or a Glock 21. I'm willing to bet that .45 ACP is the most widely used round in law enforcement in Washington.
Edit: And, I'll add that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 9mm with good ammo. You can't make any reasonable determinations on round effectiveness when comparing hollow point to ball ammo. If I'm going to make a hole in someone, I'd just as soon do it with a 230 grain hp as a 140 grain hollow point. Bigger is really better sometimes.
Post by: Bean Counter on March 22, 2013, 09:24:12 PM
There are a lot of PD's around the country that are switching back to 9mm from .40S&W. This mainly due to reduced recoil and the ability to get back on target quicker.
Quote
...He says 9mm guns are easier to control than .40-caliber Glocks because they don’t have as much recoil.http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/07/04/all-600-st-paul-police-officers-to-get-new-guns/ (http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/07/04/all-600-st-paul-police-officers-to-get-new-guns/)
Quote
The police force of more than 650 sworn officers will receive 9 mm handguns, replacing the .40-caliber Glocks the police department has used since 1998.Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/09/07/2004932/police-score-new-guns.html#storylink=cpy (http://www.kansas.com/2011/09/07/2004932/police-score-new-guns.html#storylink=cpy)
Post by: JLS on March 22, 2013, 09:37:40 PM
There are a lot of PD's around the country that are switching back to 9mm from .40S&W. This mainly due to reduced recoil and the ability to get back on target quicker.
Part of the resurgence is cost savings, in addition to the reduced recoil. 9mm ammo is cheaper than 45 ACP ammo. Both are easier guns to shoot than the .40, but the 9mm also has the advantage of being lighter than the 45, taking a fair bit of weight off of an officer's duty belt.
Post by: turkeyfeather on March 22, 2013, 09:47:43 PM
So which is it. First you say that most use .45 and now you acknowledge that most are using the 9mm for the very same reasons as stated before.There are a lot of PD's around the country that are switching back to 9mm from .40S&W. This mainly due to reduced recoil and the ability to get back on target quicker.
Part of the resurgence is cost savings, in addition to the reduced recoil. 9mm ammo is cheaper than 45 ACP ammo. Both are easier guns to shoot than the .40, but the 9mm also has the advantage of being lighter than the 45, taking a fair bit of weight off of an officer's duty belt.
Post by: JLS on March 22, 2013, 11:11:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 22, 2013, 11:40:20 PM
Hi guys... :hello: fly in the ointment here...+1 :yeah:
There are a lot of PD's around the country that are switching back to 9mm from .40S&W. This mainly due to reduced recoil and the ability to get back on target quicker.Quote...He says 9mm guns are easier to control than .40-caliber Glocks because they don’t have as much recoil.http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/07/04/all-600-st-paul-police-officers-to-get-new-guns/ (http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/07/04/all-600-st-paul-police-officers-to-get-new-guns/)QuoteThe police force of more than 650 sworn officers will receive 9 mm handguns, replacing the .40-caliber Glocks the police department has used since 1998.Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2011/09/07/2004932/police-score-new-guns.html#storylink=cpy (http://www.kansas.com/2011/09/07/2004932/police-score-new-guns.html#storylink=cpy)
Post by: JLS on March 23, 2013, 10:49:13 AM
So which is it. First you say that most use .45 and now you acknowledge that most are using the 9mm for the very same reasons as stated before.There are a lot of PD's around the country that are switching back to 9mm from .40S&W. This mainly due to reduced recoil and the ability to get back on target quicker.
Part of the resurgence is cost savings, in addition to the reduced recoil. 9mm ammo is cheaper than 45 ACP ammo. Both are easier guns to shoot than the .40, but the 9mm also has the advantage of being lighter than the 45, taking a fair bit of weight off of an officer's duty belt.
One other cost savings of going 9mm vs. 45 is you probably won't have to replace holsters and magazine pouches if you go from .40 to 9mm. If you go ..40 to .45 you will because the slide and magazines are bigger.
Post by: splitshot on May 02, 2013, 05:44:01 PM
Post by: mrolen on May 03, 2013, 12:26:15 PM
Post by: HighlandLofts on May 04, 2013, 02:32:40 AM
I shoot a wide range of handguns, my main conceal carry is a S&W 642 airweight 38 + P, I bought it as a once in a while carry gun. But I like it a lot, It's a charm to carry and if it can't stop my attacker in the five shots it carries then it's my bad.
All this disscusion about this is BAD or that is BAD, it all boils down to do you have a conceal carry permit, and do you have enough ass to actually shoot some one that is a threat to your life, your loved ones life or another persons life?
When you decide to carry a handgun you should only carry what you are comfortable with., weather it be a 22, 25, 380, 9mm, 38, 357, 45acp, 45lc/410.
It all boils down to "If it just saves one life it's worth it". Well Mine's Worth It! and I'll stick with my Conceal Carry, with what ever gun I decide to carry that day. After that it won't matter to me my kids will inherit what this democrat goverened POS state don't take.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on May 04, 2013, 03:14:07 AM
in a 9 you get more shells per mag. this was probably already covered but im to lazy to read thru 3 pages of stuff. also you can go to single stack in the 9 which was not covered. mike w
The firepower of a 9mm can not compare to the firepower of .45acp. Think of it this way. Can you stand erect and take the full force of a 350lb bar bell traveling at 850fps and remain standing? I don't think so. Although, if I did not have a .45acp, the least caliber I would carry, would be 9mm. Anything less like .380 has been known to not even penetrate a thick coat.
Post by: CP on May 04, 2013, 06:48:45 AM
in a 9 you get more shells per mag. this was probably already covered but im to lazy to read thru 3 pages of stuff. also you can go to single stack in the 9 which was not covered. mike w
The firepower of a 9mm can not compare to the firepower of .45acp. Think of it this way. Can you stand erect and take the full force of a 350lb bar bell traveling at 850fps and remain standing? I don't think so. Although, if I did not have a .45acp, the least caliber I would carry, would be 9mm. Anything less like .380 has been known to not even penetrate a thick coat.
Let’s do the math:
115g 9mm @ 1275 fps = 415 ft-lbs of energy
180g .45 @ 1075 = 475 ft-lbs of energy
350 lb bar bell @ 850 fps = 3,930,000 ft-lbs of energy
I’ll take the bar bell launcher.
Post by: Alchase on May 04, 2013, 02:08:26 PM
in a 9 you get more shells per mag. this was probably already covered but im to lazy to read thru 3 pages of stuff. also you can go to single stack in the 9 which was not covered. mike w
The firepower of a 9mm can not compare to the firepower of .45acp. Think of it this way. Can you stand erect and take the full force of a 350lb bar bell traveling at 850fps and remain standing? I don't think so. Although, if I did not have a .45acp, the least caliber I would carry, would be 9mm. Anything less like .380 has been known to not even penetrate a thick coat.
Let’s do the math:
115g 9mm @ 1275 fps = 415 ft-lbs of energy
180g .45 @ 1075 = 475 ft-lbs of energy
350 lb bar bell @ 850 fps = 3,930,000 ft-lbs of energy
I’ll take the bar bell launcher.
There you go getting all logical on us, :rolleyes:
Post by: Alchase on May 04, 2013, 02:12:32 PM
Quick question
If you had to make a choice, wich would you rather be shot with?:
A) a .45 cal military ball ammo
B) a 9mm PDX1
IMHO, ball ammo should be for paper only, reguardless the caliber.
Post by: mountainman on May 04, 2013, 02:39:41 PM
With modern ammo, most of this argument is moot.
Quick question
If you had to make a choice, wich would you rather be shot with?:
A) a .45 cal military ball ammo
B) a 9mm PDX1
IMHO, ball ammo should be for paper only, reguardless the caliber.
Thats the point I've been waiting to see someone make. Bullets kill from hydro-static shock. Doesnt matter if bad guy is hopped up on anything, you send that shock wave thru the liquid body mass, hit those nerve endings, thats it...bad guy down! And he will not know the difference between a 9mm or 45. Guarantee it! The rest IS moot...
Post by: Smossy on May 04, 2013, 02:58:05 PM
Post by: Bofire on May 04, 2013, 03:02:14 PM
Pistol rounds do not have enough velocity to create "hydrostatic" shock. a bullet going thru tissue kills, "hydrostatic shock" is Bull in rifle cartridges let alone pistol.
my 2
Carl
I would have no fear defending my self with a 9, I'd like a 45 but??? 22 rifle would work too!
Another thing is every qualifying target I have ever seen has the 10 ring center mass. no head shots or 2 body and 1 head. I was always taught center mass and keep shooting until the threat is ended.
Post by: mountainman on May 04, 2013, 03:10:13 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Pistol rounds do not have enough velocity to create "hydrostatic" shock. a bullet going thru tissue kills, "hydrostatic shock" is Bull in rifle cartridges let alone pistol.
my 2
Carl
I would have no fear defending my self with a 9, I'd like a 45 but??? 22 rifle would work too!
Another thing is every qualifying target I have ever seen has the 10 ring center mass. no head shots or 2 body and 1 head. I was always taught center mass and keep shooting until the threat is ended.
Huh?? You serious?? LOL! Have you ever shot thru ballistic gel? Or better yet, a plastic gallon jug full of water?? :)
Post by: GrainfedMuley on May 04, 2013, 03:54:22 PM
Another thing is every qualifying target I have ever seen has the 10 ring center mass. no head shots or 2 body and 1 head. I was always taught center mass and keep shooting until the threat is ended.
I guess you have never shot at a FBI Target.
Post by: Bean Counter on May 04, 2013, 04:00:00 PM
Another thing is every qualifying target I have ever seen has the 10 ring center mass. no head shots or 2 body and 1 head. I was always taught center mass and keep shooting until the threat is ended.
What if they're wearing body armor?
With the higher incidences of druggies and drunks out there, I prefer shots to the waist. Plenty of blood vessels for them to bleed out quickly (common iliac, descending aorta, femoral artery, femoral vein, etc), plus you can drop them to the ground with most hits to the pelvic bone and its prominences (femoral head, lower spine, etc).
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 04, 2013, 04:00:27 PM
Definition of Static.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/static (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/static)
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/myths.html (http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/myths.html)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto_zpsd0b96765.jpg&hash=2af0fedf64120699fa3cd90bd847a7cf43d591fc)
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 04, 2013, 04:06:21 PM
Another thing is every qualifying target I have ever seen has the 10 ring center mass. no head shots or 2 body and 1 head. I was always taught center mass and keep shooting until the threat is ended.
What if they're wearing body armor?
With the higher incidences of druggies and drunks out there, I prefer shots to the waist. Plenty of blood vessels for them to bleed out quickly (common iliac, descending aorta, femoral artery, femoral vein, etc), plus you can drop them to the ground with most hits to the pelvic bone and its prominences (femoral head, lower spine, etc).
Hence the expression "Low in the groin or high in the head". Gets the job done in a hurry, center mass is over rated. :)
Post by: huntnphool on May 04, 2013, 04:08:44 PM
Not a problem. ;)
What if they're wearing body armor?
Post by: magnanimous_j on May 04, 2013, 05:32:10 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Pistol rounds do not have enough velocity to create "hydrostatic" shock. a bullet going thru tissue kills, "hydrostatic shock" is Bull in rifle cartridges let alone pistol.
my 2
Carl
You are probably right. The jury is still out on whether hydrostatic shock exists at all. They've found shooting victims who've suffered aneurisms and have not been shot in the head. My opinion is that it does exist, but the conditions are so unreliable that it can't be counted on.
I think what's important to remember is that NO pistol round has the horsepower to be the 100% 1-shot mankiller that we think they are. You need a rifle round for that. Handgun rounds are deadly, obviously, but placement is absolutely critical with whichever caliber you choose.
I like 9mm because my compact handgun holds 14 of them and the recoil is light. I like .45 ACP as well because I gravitate to low maintenance, low pressure machines (I prefer Huge V-twin motorcycle engines over tiny high reving 4cyls, for example). But I think that a well placed shot with a 45 is going to kill a person just as well as the same shot with the 9mm. Likewise, a non-vital shot with a 45 isn't going to kill any better than the same shot with the 9mm.
I would rather be shot in the leg with a .500SW then shot in the temple with a .22lr
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 04, 2013, 05:38:00 PM
Post by: mountainman on May 04, 2013, 05:39:53 PM
Post by: mountainman on May 04, 2013, 05:40:53 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Pistol rounds do not have enough velocity to create "hydrostatic" shock. a bullet going thru tissue kills, "hydrostatic shock" is Bull in rifle cartridges let alone pistol.
my 2
Carl
You are probably right. The jury is still out on whether hydrostatic shock exists at all. They've found shooting victims who've suffered aneurisms and have not been shot in the head. My opinion is that it does exist, but the conditions are so unreliable that it can't be counted on.
I think what's important to remember is that NO pistol round has the horsepower to be the 100% 1-shot mankiller that we think they are. You need a rifle round for that. Handgun rounds are deadly, obviously, but placement is absolutely critical with whichever caliber you choose.
I like 9mm because my compact handgun holds 14 of them and the recoil is light. I like .45 ACP as well because I gravitate to low maintenance, low pressure machines (I prefer Huge V-twin motorcycle engines over tiny high reving 4cyls, for example). But I think that a well placed shot with a 45 is going to kill a person just as well as the same shot with the 9mm. Likewise, a non-vital shot with a 45 isn't going to kill any better than the same shot with the 9mm.
I would rather be shot in the leg with a .500SW then shot in the temple with a .22lr
:tup:
Post by: Bofire on May 04, 2013, 08:05:22 PM
Carl
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 04, 2013, 08:26:36 PM