Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 06:27:49 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2014, 06:41:45 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 06:45:31 PM
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Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 06:46:47 PM
I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.
Another bad idea! Only the person who earned the points should be able to use them.
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Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 06:47:38 PM
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 06:48:33 PM
I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.
:yeah: one of the top suggestions I gave to fish & game
Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 06:55:19 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on April 01, 2014, 06:58:44 PM
Post by: teegansdad on April 01, 2014, 07:02:43 PM
Post by: JLS on April 01, 2014, 07:03:58 PM
Well, as long as WDFW sells other tags to the highest bidder, I don't have a problem with it. You paid for them, You should be able to profit from them. Now if they didn't already auction tags to the highest bidder, Then that might change my thinking. But giving them to a family member. Pretty good idea either way.
Hasn't money ruined hunting enough already?
Post by: Alan K on April 01, 2014, 07:04:58 PM
Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 07:07:51 PM
Post by: 67 Halfcab on April 01, 2014, 07:13:29 PM
its a lotto! like gambling you cant will or sell your losing lotto tickets! we are just lucky we get points for our un drawn efforts.
It is not like lotto. When you don't get drawn you get a point.....these points have value in a better chance of getting drawn next year. When you loose at lotto your loosing ticket has no value, it doesn't better you odds in the next lotto.
Post by: PolarBear on April 01, 2014, 07:14:31 PM
I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.:yeah:
I would LOVE to give my daughter my bonus points. She would basically be able to pick any elk hunt in the state.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 01, 2014, 07:18:58 PM
Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 07:21:12 PM
Post by: JLS on April 01, 2014, 07:24:49 PM
I despise what hunting is becoming. I'll gladly keep hunting OTC hunts before I'll start buying points to get to the front of the line.
YMMV
Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 07:27:45 PM
Post by: Opportunist on April 01, 2014, 07:30:21 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 01, 2014, 07:35:41 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 01, 2014, 07:39:58 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2014, 07:44:14 PM
Why is this a bad idea? Aaron put in for permits religiously his whole hunting career and was never able to draw a tag before he paid the ultimate price! Why shouldn't he be able to leave his points to his son so he can one day fulfill his fathers dream!?!!I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.
Another bad idea! Only the person who earned the points should be able to use them.
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Post by: plugger on April 01, 2014, 07:47:47 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2014, 07:48:38 PM
My point exactly.Why is this a bad idea? Aaron put in for permits religiously his whole hunting career and was never able to draw a tag before he paid the ultimate price! Why shouldn't he be able to leave his points to his son so he can one day fulfill his fathers dream!?!!I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.
Another bad idea! Only the person who earned the points should be able to use them.
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Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 08:04:26 PM
So... The reason I say this is that it would be unfair. Pretty simple. It would be unfair to those who had to acquire their points honestly and legitimately. I don't feel I am more deserving of a special permit just because my dad had bad luck and didn't draw in 18 years of applying.
Post by: rtspring on April 01, 2014, 08:14:35 PM
So a guy goes off and dies for his country and his points go to waste? That is a ripoff! There should be SPECIAL situations that points can be given to a person of your choice! After all the end goal is soneone filling a dream hunt. But once again the value of money has ruined the whole process...
Post by: X-Force on April 01, 2014, 08:18:44 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2014, 08:25:17 PM
I bought the points! They are mine. I should be able to do what I want with them..I don't think they should be willed to just anybody, but to a pre determined family member I would would be all for. :twocents:
So a guy goes off and dies for his country and his points go to waste? That is a ripoff! There should be SPECIAL situations that points can be given to a person of your choice! After all the end goal is soneone filling a dream hunt. But once again the value of money has ruined the whole process...
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 08:35:47 PM
Well, I'm surprised I even have to explain. I took the original post as more of a joke than anything. The idea of selling or transferring points is simply absurd. And like I said, the WDFW would never consider it. It's good to know they at least have that much sense.
So... The reason I say this is that it would be unfair. Pretty simple. It would be unfair to those who had to acquire their points honestly and legitimately. I don't feel I am more deserving of a special permit just because my dad had bad luck and didn't draw in 18 years of applying.
I beleive oregon allows this to a certain extent...would you really feel cheated if a crippled grandpa gave his granddaughter his points ?
Selling points is a whole nother matter. ..it would progress the "rich man trend" this sport is taking
which is appalling
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 08:38:17 PM
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Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 08:45:57 PM
What about the other portion of my statement ? Would you really feel cheated ?
If so I think your putting to much weight into these draw tags
Just my :twocents:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2014, 08:49:58 PM
Well the guys from "on foot films" must be poachers then:yeah:
What about the other portion of my statement ? Would you really feel cheated ?
If so I think your putting to much weight into these draw tags
Just my :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 08:54:09 PM
Now if you do want to share your points that you've accumulated with someone, that's easy to do. Apply with them as a partner. That's how they are "selling" points in Oregon. They don't transfer the points to someone else, that would be impossible, there is no way to do that. They simply apply as partners. So if one person has 20 points and the other has none, they go in with the average of those points which would be 10. That's how they do it in Oregon, and that's exactly the same way you could do it here. The difference is in Oregon they are preference points, not bonus points like we have here. So in Oregon you can be fairly certain when you are going to draw and when you are not going to draw, unlike here.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2014, 08:57:27 PM
It's not that I would personally feel cheated. The people it would hurt are the new hunters. How would it be fair for a kid putting in for a youth hunt with 20 points, while everyone else in that pool has maybe two or three points at the most? It just wouldn't be fair to put certain people at the head of the line. They didn't put in for permits all those years, holding out for nothing but the best, and earn those points. As I said, only the people who eaarned the points deserve to use them. Nobody else.Pretty certain that little Johny isn't getting willed any youth bonus points from his 80 year old grandpa.........
Now if you do want to share your points that you've accumulated with someone, that's easy to do. Apply with them as a partner. That's how they are "selling" points in Oregon. They don't transfer the points to someone else, that would be impossible, there is no way to do that. They simply apply as partners. So if one person has 20 points and the other has none, they go in with the average of those points which would be 10. That's how they do it in Oregon, and that's exactly the same way you could do it here. The difference is in Oregon they are preference points, not bonus points like we have here. So in Oregon you can be fairly certain when you are going to draw and when you are not going to draw, unlike here.
Post by: huntnphool on April 01, 2014, 08:57:46 PM
You are okay with WDFW handing out points for turning in poachers, but you would not support a dying hunter their wish to see a immediate family member receive their life long dream/points? :dunno:I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.
Another bad idea! Only the person who earned the points should be able to use them.
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 08:59:36 PM
It's not that I would personally feel cheated. The people it would hurt are the new hunters. How would it be fair for a kid putting in for a youth hunt with 20 points, while everyone else in that pool has maybe two or three points at the most? It just wouldn't be fair to put certain people at the head of the line. They didn't put in for permits all those years, holding out for nothing but the best, and earn those points. As I said, only the people who eaarned the points deserve to use them. Nobody else.Pretty certain that little Johny isn't getting willed any youth bonus points from his 80 year old grandpa.........
Now if you do want to share your points that you've accumulated with someone, that's easy to do. Apply with them as a partner. That's how they are "selling" points in Oregon. They don't transfer the points to someone else, that would be impossible, there is no way to do that. They simply apply as partners. So if one person has 20 points and the other has none, they go in with the average of those points which would be 10. That's how they do it in Oregon, and that's exactly the same way you could do it here. The difference is in Oregon they are preference points, not bonus points like we have here. So in Oregon you can be fairly certain when you are going to draw and when you are not going to draw, unlike here.
Why not? Isn't that what we're talking about here? Even if that's not the case, my point is still valid. Doesn't matter which category they apply in. A person's points should be earned, not given to them by somebody else.
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 09:03:09 PM
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 09:06:55 PM
They even have my social contracted to them for crying out loud...
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 09:10:14 PM
I guess I view points as property..I pay for them..they accumulate over the years (unlike the lottery)
They even have my social contracted to them for crying out loud...
I don't disagree with that, but the fact is, when you die, the points go with you. And that's as it should be.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2014, 09:22:30 PM
Why not? Because an 80 year old man can't purchase youth points, thats why not.It's not that I would personally feel cheated. The people it would hurt are the new hunters. How would it be fair for a kid putting in for a youth hunt with 20 points, while everyone else in that pool has maybe two or three points at the most? It just wouldn't be fair to put certain people at the head of the line. They didn't put in for permits all those years, holding out for nothing but the best, and earn those points. As I said, only the people who eaarned the points deserve to use them. Nobody else.Pretty certain that little Johny isn't getting willed any youth bonus points from his 80 year old grandpa.........
Now if you do want to share your points that you've accumulated with someone, that's easy to do. Apply with them as a partner. That's how they are "selling" points in Oregon. They don't transfer the points to someone else, that would be impossible, there is no way to do that. They simply apply as partners. So if one person has 20 points and the other has none, they go in with the average of those points which would be 10. That's how they do it in Oregon, and that's exactly the same way you could do it here. The difference is in Oregon they are preference points, not bonus points like we have here. So in Oregon you can be fairly certain when you are going to draw and when you are not going to draw, unlike here.
Why not? Isn't that what we're talking about here? Even if that's not the case, my point is still valid. Doesn't matter which category they apply in. A person's points should be earned, not given to them by somebody else.
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 09:26:34 PM
Why not? Because an 80 year old man can't purchase youth points, thats why not.It's not that I would personally feel cheated. The people it would hurt are the new hunters. How would it be fair for a kid putting in for a youth hunt with 20 points, while everyone else in that pool has maybe two or three points at the most? It just wouldn't be fair to put certain people at the head of the line. They didn't put in for permits all those years, holding out for nothing but the best, and earn those points. As I said, only the people who eaarned the points deserve to use them. Nobody else.Pretty certain that little Johny isn't getting willed any youth bonus points from his 80 year old grandpa.........
Now if you do want to share your points that you've accumulated with someone, that's easy to do. Apply with them as a partner. That's how they are "selling" points in Oregon. They don't transfer the points to someone else, that would be impossible, there is no way to do that. They simply apply as partners. So if one person has 20 points and the other has none, they go in with the average of those points which would be 10. That's how they do it in Oregon, and that's exactly the same way you could do it here. The difference is in Oregon they are preference points, not bonus points like we have here. So in Oregon you can be fairly certain when you are going to draw and when you are not going to draw, unlike here.
Why not? Isn't that what we're talking about here? Even if that's not the case, my point is still valid. Doesn't matter which category they apply in. A person's points should be earned, not given to them by somebody else.
Well, I was thinking if you want the option of tranferring points to another person, why couldn't they take those points in the youth category or wherever they wanted them? I mean we're making up the rules here, right?
Besides, I'm not so sure we all don't have youth points. When they distrbuted points into all the new categories in 2010, did we all get our points in the youth category as well? I know I have points in the "over 65 category" even though I never applied in that category before. They're just sitting there waiting for me to use them when I turn 65 in 19 years. Stupid yes, but that's the WDFW for ya.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 01, 2014, 09:31:58 PM
Special permits are an opportunity, not an entitlement. If you start transferring points you are just taking opportunity from someone else, in this case someone new to hunting without a "dynasty" of stockpiled points...ugh...the whole idea is horrible and becomes a slippery slope further commercializing hunting.
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 09:44:04 PM
Discussion over.
Post by: huntnnw on April 01, 2014, 09:50:44 PM
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 09:54:52 PM
Im not sure how oppertunity id being lost..if one person (grandpa) gives his points to another (lil max) grandpa is now out of the mix...same odds as before...its still your name in thit hat against the x amount of others...It shouldn't matter if its grandpa's name or lil max's name
Would you wrather grandpa draw the tag an not use it ??
Again im 100% against selling points, im for giving tags/points to family members
Post by: Bigshooter on April 01, 2014, 10:02:48 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 01, 2014, 10:04:30 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 10:11:00 PM
The way that odds can get better or at least stay the same is by having those with high numbers of points dropping out of the system. So that is either because they quit hunting for whatever reason, they finally draw a permit, or they die. Now what happens when instead the points are transferred to their kids- odds continue to get worse, and especially for the people just starting out with no points.
I'd prefer we had no point system at all, like Idaho. But allowing the transfer of points would do nothing but make things worse.
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 10:13:53 PM
Point systems do not create more opportunity...they simply shift odds to favor a group of folks who have put in longer. In shifting the odds one group has to lose for another to gain. If grandpa dies, those points go away under the current system. But if he wills them, then young max starts with grandpas points which means the kid whose grandpa did not hunt is at a big disadvantage. Therefore, if you allow point transfers you are putting new/beginning hunters without a dynasty of points at a huge mathematical disadvantage.
That is true but how much of an offset are we talking ?? Is it more than the reward points people get? Id be willing to make the rules for alive people only..I wasnt thinking long term but neither is our fish an game
I agree that draws dont increases oppertunity...prolly another thread topic tho
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 10:15:53 PM
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 10:20:34 PM
kentrek,
The way that odds can get better or at least stay the same is by having those with high numbers of points dropping out of the system. So that is either because they quit hunting for whatever reason, they finally draw a permit, or they die. Now what happens when instead the points are transferred to their kids- odds continue to get worse, and especially for the people just starting out with no points.
I'd prefer we had no point system at all, like Idaho. But allowing the transfer of points would do nothing but make things worse.
So if we killed the points once a the original point holder dies would that be fine ?? Almost feel im getting off the original topic but its been on my mind lately to come up with a good way to do this...
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 10:22:41 PM
kentrek,
The way that odds can get better or at least stay the same is by having those with high numbers of points dropping out of the system. So that is either because they quit hunting for whatever reason, they finally draw a permit, or they die. Now what happens when instead the points are transferred to their kids- odds continue to get worse, and especially for the people just starting out with no points.
I'd prefer we had no point system at all, like Idaho. But allowing the transfer of points would do nothing but make things worse.
So if we killed the points once a the original point holder dies would that be fine ?? Almost feel im getting off the original topic but its been on my mind lately to come up with a good way to do this...
I don't know. I've thought of this as well and I don't know how to end a point system once it gets started. I don't think it could be done without upsetting most of the people who have invested in it.
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 10:25:48 PM
Im game for killing the whole system too tho..spread the hunters out ! Yup now im def off topic :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 10:29:35 PM
Whoops, when I said "kill the points" I ment of the one person who died..not the whole system
Im game for killing the whole system too tho..spread the hunters out ! Yup now im def off topic :chuckle:
I guess I don't understand what you mean. Isn't it already that way? When you die, your points die with you. Correct?
Post by: huntnnw on April 01, 2014, 10:32:12 PM
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 10:34:03 PM
Whoops, when I said "kill the points" I ment of the one person who died..not the whole system
Im game for killing the whole system too tho..spread the hunters out ! Yup now im def off topic :chuckle:
I guess I don't understand what you mean. Isn't it already that way? When you die, your points die with you. Correct?
Im talking about in my imaginary world where a grandpa can have his grandson use his points
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 10:36:53 PM
Theres gotta be a way it could be fair, just doesn't seem like the bad out weighs the good that could come from it
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 10:42:13 PM
Orr where a grandson can give his points to his grandpa for what could be his last hunt :dunno:
Theres gotta be a way it could be fair, just doesn't seem like the bad out weighs the good that could come from it
That can be done. It's called applying as partners.
Actually there's at least one state (Idaho?) where a dad can let his kid shoot an animal with dad's tag. I don't know if it has to be a dad, or just an adult mentor. Not sure, but somebody on here probably will know. I wouldn't be against something like that. But just to take points from one person and give them to another. I'd never support that.
Post by: kentrek on April 01, 2014, 10:50:20 PM
I agree with the last part of your statement tho, thats pretty much the end result of what id like to see more of...
Personally id love to give my points/controlled tag to my dad, I really dont need them and itd be amazing to watch him shoot a bull one more time
Post by: idahohuntr on April 01, 2014, 10:53:03 PM
Like all Ponzi schemes it would not end well and probably many folks would wind up in prison when all was said and done :chuckle:
I don't know. I've thought of this as well and I don't know how to end a point system once it gets started. I don't think it could be done without upsetting most of the people who have invested in it.
Actually there's at least one state (Idaho?) where a dad can let his kid shoot an animal with dad's tag. I don't know if it has to be a dad, or just an adult mentor. Not sure, but somebody on here probably will know. I wouldn't be against something like that. But just to take points from one person and give them to another. I'd never support that.In Idaho a parent or grandparent can transfer a controlled hunt tag that they draw to a minor child or grandchild...I have no real issue with that...but there is more than one mom/dad/grandma out there putting in for moose or sheep tags etc. who has never hunted a day in his/her life :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2014, 10:58:22 PM
Like all Ponzi schemes it would not end well and probably many folks would wind up in prison when all was said and done :chuckle:
I don't know. I've thought of this as well and I don't know how to end a point system once it gets started. I don't think it could be done without upsetting most of the people who have invested in it.Actually there's at least one state (Idaho?) where a dad can let his kid shoot an animal with dad's tag. I don't know if it has to be a dad, or just an adult mentor. Not sure, but somebody on here probably will know. I wouldn't be against something like that. But just to take points from one person and give them to another. I'd never support that.In Idaho a parent or grandparent can transfer a controlled hunt tag that they draw to a minor child or grandchild...I have no real issue with that...but there is more than one mom/dad/grandma out there putting in for moose or sheep tags etc. who has never hunted a day in his/her life :chuckle: :chuckle:
I was thinking the tag could be used by the child or grandchild, but I thought the two had to be together, hunting as partners. I'm not sure I like the idea of just giving the tag away like that. That's the problem with allowing stuff like that. Too much corruption, cheating, not using the system in the way it was intended.
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Post by: link on April 01, 2014, 10:59:58 PM
Post by: autodink13 on April 01, 2014, 11:42:31 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2014, 06:38:44 AM
Have fun as the little snot laughs at you.
Post by: arees on April 02, 2014, 07:59:09 AM
1) Buy a Governor's Tag. This is a straight up rich man's game. They hunter with the most money to spend gets the tag.
2) Buy raffle tickets. This gives everyone who buys a ticket some chance, but let's the rich man skew the odds in his favor by buying more tickets. He still has to worry about some other rich guy buying just as many tickets and cutting his chances in half. There is also a slim possibility that the guy that bought one ticket wins it.
3) Apply and gather points. This gives everyone the same opportunity to improve their odds buy applying year after year. The odds are never great, but that is just because there are more people that want to shoot the animals than there are animals. The only way to fix this is to increase the number of animals available to hunt or decrease the number of hunters. The rich man can buy his way into a group application, but that will only get him half the points of the person he applies with. He can not pool people together to further improve his odds.
4) Poach the damn thing. You have a small chance of getting caught and only modest fines if you get caught. The only thing getting in the way is your honesty and integrity. We don't need to discuss this any further here.
I have a few issues with some things that have been said. Some people believe that they bought their points and should be able to sell them or give them away if they want. That is a nice sentiment, but what you bought was what WDFW was selling. Your points go away when you die or get drawn. You don't have a right to anything else. You can ask for a change in the rules, but until then it is just wishful thinking. If I buy a life membership in RMEF, do I get to pass it down to my son?
Any change to the rules that lets people pass points on to other people just means you are giving the tags to the rich people. You want to make the points transferable? The rich man will pay people to gather points and give them to him. You want to make points inheritable? The rich man can pay a bunch of old people to apply for points and name him in their will. I just don't have any sympathy for improving the odds for rich people.
If you restrict it to only inheriting points from direct relatives, the rich man is able to make sure all his relatives have points for him to inherit. I don't have the money for that but maybe you do.
The only thing I would consider, is letting someone pass their tag (not points) on to their child. If a person draws a tag within the rules and without skewing the odds, they should be allowed to use that tag for their child (or maybe a make-a-wish type operation). It does reduce the odds for the rest of us by keeping some old/infirm people in the draw longer, but is limits the ability to skew the odds with money.
In general, there are too many people wanting to hunt and too few animals available to hunt. No preference points, bonus points or random draw system is going to fix that. These discussions are mostly rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2014, 08:09:35 AM
Post by: splitshot on April 02, 2014, 08:13:13 AM
Post by: Curly on April 02, 2014, 08:13:35 AM
I bought the points! They are mine. I should be able to do what I want with them..
So a guy goes off and dies for his country and his points go to waste? That is a ripoff! There should be SPECIAL situations that points can be given to a person of your choice! After all the end goal is soneone filling a dream hunt. But once again the value of money has ruined the whole process...
I haven't read this whole thread yet, so maybe this point has already been brought up: You likely did not buy all your points. When the new category system went into effect, wdfw gave points to everyone in every category.
What I think should happen is we get rid of the point system altogether. They need to figure out a way to phase it out. But that wouldn't fit with the money making philosophy of wdfw.
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 08:15:14 AM
You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.
Then why the discussion about points, if they don't matter? ???
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2014, 08:22:35 AM
where in the above post did I say points didn't matter? Exactly, I didn't. Very first sentence in his post he states there are four ways to kill an animal in this state. He left out the most simple one. Stay focused now.You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.
Then why the discussion about points, if they don't matter? ???
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 08:30:06 AM
But now we find out special permits aren't even necessary. Great. No need for rich people to buy points then, right?
Discussion over.
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Post by: arees on April 02, 2014, 08:31:53 AM
Yep, I left off over the counter tags. Dang.where in the above post did I say points didn't matter? Exactly, I didn't. Very first sentence in his post he states there are four ways to kill an animal in this state. He left out the most simple one. Stay focused now.You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.
Then why the discussion about points, if they don't matter? ???
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
Post by: Curly on April 02, 2014, 08:36:10 AM
No way should points ever be willed/transferred or outright sold. :bdid:
Special permits are an opportunity, not an entitlement. If you start transferring points you are just taking opportunity from someone else, in this case someone new to hunting without a "dynasty" of stockpiled points...ugh...the whole idea is horrible and becomes a slippery slope further commercializing hunting.
Agreed. :yeah:
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 08:39:12 AM
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Post by: MtnMuley on April 02, 2014, 08:43:27 AM
How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?You mean like the youth turkey season this weekend....having first crack at and educating all the birds that I've been so patiently waiting to kill..... :dunno: :chuckle:
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2014, 08:48:44 AM
How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?I don't know a way to explain this that you are gonna be able to wrap your brain around man. If creating an opportunity for a child to finish what their loved one wasn't able to accomplish or allowing an elderly individual to fulfill their dream before they die isn't noble and greater than ones own personal gain then I guess I must not understand the word. Life is about more than just inches of bone. Hunting is about the experiences and memories made with friends and loved ones. Is shooting trophy animals a plus? Sure! But its not something that should be sought after at all costs.
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Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 08:49:07 AM
How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?You mean like the youth turkey season this weekend....having first crack at and educating all the birds that I've been so patiently waiting to kill..... :dunno: :chuckle:
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:o Well no, not exactly. That season is open for ALL youth hunters. What we're talking about here is the ability to give points to certain kids who just happen to have a parent who has accumulated a number of points, and for whatever reason does not wish to use those points or is unable to use to use those points for himself.
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Post by: Fowlweather25 on April 02, 2014, 08:54:55 AM
How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?
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Youre kidding right? Are you really that self absorbed? I love the idea of transfering points to a youth from a passed family member! You just want your odds to increase? If a family member passes he is no longer in the draw! If he leaves his points to a grandkid the number in the draw stays the same! How is that unfair? Of course i would like to see kids have an advantage over me! Its called preserving the future of our hunting heritage! I know if i passed i would want my points to go to my son. :twocents:
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 09:01:19 AM
:yeah: :yeah: I dont see why it is a big deal if someone wants to give his kid his points that he or she has paid through the nose for, I would love to give my points to my daughter, especially now that she has really taken to huntnHow is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?
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Youre kidding right? Are you really that self absorbed? I love the idea of transfering points to a youth from a passed family member! You just want your odds to increase? If a family member passes he is no longer in the draw! If he leaves his points to a grandkid the number in the draw stays the same! How is that unfair? Of course i would like to see kids have an advantage over me! Its called preserving the future of our hunting heritage! I know if i passed i would want my points to go to my son. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 09:01:31 AM
How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?
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Youre kidding right? Are you really that self absorbed? I love the idea of transfering points to a youth from a passed family member! You just want your odds to increase? If a family member passes he is no longer in the draw! If he leaves his points to a grandkid the number in the draw stays the same! How is that unfair? Of course i would like to see kids have an advantage over me! Its called preserving the future of our hunting heritage! I know if i passed i would want my points to go to my son. :twocents:
No, not kidding at all. It's not a matter of a kid having an advantage over me, it's that only certain kids would benefit from this. It would be unfair to those kids or even adults who are new to hunting and are just beginning to accumulate points.
I really can't believe we're even discussing this. The idea is absolutely preposterous.
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Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2014, 09:05:28 AM
Post by: arees on April 02, 2014, 09:06:21 AM
The problem is picking one youth over all others. There is a never ending supply of youths that have faced tragedies in their lives. Allowing inheriting of points just skews the odds in favor of the rich who can buy points for everyone in their family setting up lots of points to inherit.How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?
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Youre kidding right? Are you really that self absorbed? I love the idea of transfering points to a youth from a passed family member! You just want your odds to increase? If a family member passes he is no longer in the draw! If he leaves his points to a grandkid the number in the draw stays the same! How is that unfair? Of course i would like to see kids have an advantage over me! Its called preserving the future of our hunting heritage! I know if i passed i would want my points to go to my son. :twocents:
Helping out a kid facing a tragedy is a good thing. Breaking the point system so it favors the rich more than it does now is not.
Post by: Whitpirate on April 02, 2014, 09:10:39 AM
How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?
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Youre kidding right? Are you really that self absorbed? I love the idea of transfering points to a youth from a passed family member! You just want your odds to increase? If a family member passes he is no longer in the draw! If he leaves his points to a grandkid the number in the draw stays the same! How is that unfair? Of course i would like to see kids have an advantage over me! Its called preserving the future of our hunting heritage! I know if i passed i would want my points to go to my son. :twocents:
:yeah: x1000
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with :dunno:The problem is picking one youth over all others. There is a never ending supply of youths that have faced tragedies in their lives. Allowing inheriting of points just skews the odds in favor of the rich who can buy points for everyone in their family setting up lots of points to inherit.How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?
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Youre kidding right? Are you really that self absorbed? I love the idea of transfering points to a youth from a passed family member! You just want your odds to increase? If a family member passes he is no longer in the draw! If he leaves his points to a grandkid the number in the draw stays the same! How is that unfair? Of course i would like to see kids have an advantage over me! Its called preserving the future of our hunting heritage! I know if i passed i would want my points to go to my son. :twocents:
Helping out a kid facing a tragedy is a good thing. Breaking the point system so it favors the rich more than it does now is not.
Post by: JLS on April 02, 2014, 09:16:47 AM
Even if WDFW was willing to let the money go from points and special permits, the attitudes in the is thread show the real reason why it will never happen.
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 09:22:32 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on April 02, 2014, 09:27:05 AM
The idea of passing on points may be "noble", but it skews odds even farther in what is already an overly complicated point system. The way it is now is mostly "fair" as in equal opportunity for each individual. Passing on points could have the result of massively altering odds against youths and other individuals not fortunate enough to have family members who banked points. That is not equal opportunity.
The "last experience" for elderly can be had with or without a special permit. Granting Gramps points for what may be his last hunt is no kind of guarantee he will draw. If that's a concern- I'd just load up and go hunt a general area for sure.
And keep in mind...it's like buying a lottery ticket... Sure everyone likes to win- but it's not that big a thing...ever...at least it shouldn't be.
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 09:34:26 AM
So here is oregons mentored youth program, the kid with out a tag can fill the tag of there supervisor...it has lots of limitations but would bobcat consider it unfair if a dedicated hunter who put in for points for 15 years gave up the tag to his kid ? What about the other kids whos dads werent so dedicated over the years ?? Sounds like idaho has something also...
So if I gave a mudflow tag that I draw to my nearly dead grandpa...people on here would cry outrage ? That it's not fair that there grandson hadn't put in for points as I did ?? The "this isn't fair" argument is pathetic...is it fair that my dad put a lot of emphasis on hunting when I was young compared to the other dads that didnt ?? I mean ive done some crazy cool hunts that most kids my age havent done yet...isn't that super unfair to them ??
While there are a lot of rules and regulations that would go along with what ever program were talking here I have no doubts that no one would ever cry that its just not fair that lil jimmy is related to a man who was dedicated to hunting...
Post by: Curly on April 02, 2014, 09:39:44 AM
Perpetuating an entitled attitude of points, and the false illusions of hope that they bring is certainly not the way to preserve our hunting heritage.
Even if WDFW was willing to let the money go from points and special permits, the attitudes in the is thread show the real reason why it will never happen.
:yeah:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2014, 09:42:59 AM
thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with :dunno:There is natural attrition or loss associated with points. If you can "will" them, it will reduce/eliminate that attrition and continue to increase point creep (go see Bob33's post on the point creep issue in WA). This will continue to further erode the odds of new and beginning hunters. :bdid:
Its great folks want to help youth and seniors. Nobody is arguing those of us who are able to should not help them. I take new kids hunting as often as my schedule allows. Most of them do not have a parent or family member that has much hunting experience. So no, I do not agree that simply because a kid comes from a long line of hunters he should have a huge advantage over the kid whose parent(s) also died tragically but did not come from a hunting family. Furthermore, points are an opportunity to increase your chance of drawing a tag...THEY ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT TO A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT! If you don't like the fact that you can not transfer or will them, then don't buy them...seems pretty simple.
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 09:45:49 AM
:tup:
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 09:46:08 AM
My :twocents::
The idea of passing on points may be "noble", but it skews odds even farther in what is already an overly complicated point system.
It would be easy to apply rules that dont skew the odds further, it just shifts whose name is behind the ticket/tag
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 09:54:31 AM
Are you saying its unfair for kids to be born in a hunting dedicated family ? That their opportunity should be curved to let the "other" kids catch up ??
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2014, 09:56:17 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 02, 2014, 10:01:58 AM
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 10:02:33 AM
no where in any of my posts did I say they were an entitlement, did i? And the argument of if you dont like it then dont buy it crap, well that dont fly either. Did i ever say I was pissed at the current system? Nope. Did i say its b.s that we cant give them to are kids or seniors? Nope. I do recall however saying it should be allowed, it will suck to go my whole life without drawing A special permit and then DIE, all that money and noone in my family can bennefit, cant even pass the points on to my kids or grand kids.... kinda sucks....thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with :dunno:There is natural attrition or loss associated with points. If you can "will" them, it will reduce/eliminate that attrition and continue to increase point creep (go see Bob33's post on the point creep issue in WA). This will continue to further erode the odds of new and beginning hunters. :bdid:
Its great folks want to help youth and seniors. Nobody is arguing those of us who are able to should not help them. I take new kids hunting as often as my schedule allows. Most of them do not have a parent or family member that has much hunting experience. So no, I do not agree that simply because a kid comes from a long line of hunters he should have a huge advantage over the kid whose parent(s) also died tragically but did not come from a hunting family. Furthermore, points are an opportunity to increase your chance of drawing a tag...THEY ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT TO A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT! If you don't like the fact that you can not transfer or will them, then don't buy them...seems pretty simple.
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 10:05:04 AM
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2014, 10:08:38 AM
Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over.what are you 9? Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it?
:tup:
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 10:10:09 AM
Jackmaster, like idahohuntr said, if that's the way you feel about it, then maybe you shouldn't be "wasting"your money on applying for special permits.oh hell I am gonna WAIST even more money on it now just to skew the odds a little more, mind telling me what units you put in for bobcat?
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Post by: trophyhunt on April 02, 2014, 10:11:18 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 10:40:59 AM
Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over.what are you 9? Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it?
:tup:
No, I'm not nine. But I sure wish I could be again! No more sore back, knees, hips, shoulders, etc. :tup: :IBCOOL:
Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2014, 10:57:30 AM
Bobcat, go for it! And ask your relatives to will you those points you deserve now that you're nine. :tup:Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over.what are you 9? Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it?
:tup:
No, I'm not nine. But I sure wish I could be again! No more sore back, knees, hips, shoulders, etc. :tup: :IBCOOL:
Post by: Bullkllr on April 02, 2014, 11:09:52 AM
My :twocents::
The idea of passing on points may be "noble", but it skews odds even farther in what is already an overly complicated point system.
It would be easy to apply rules that dont skew the odds further, it just shifts whose name is behind the ticket/tag
That is a different issue; I have no problem with transferring a drawn tag say to an immediate family member, etc.- but you have to admit that opens a pandora's box of under the table selling, etc.
So if I'm not mistaken, this thread has evolved to cover three different scenarios:
1. Selling points: do we really want to go there...?
2. Transferring points: seems like a reasonable idea. I just don't like the idea of claiming we're supporting youth opportunities, when if I grant my grandson points it creates an unfair advantage over all the other youth not so privileged.
3. Transferring tags drawn- I'd be all for this if someone could show me a plan that prevents misuse.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2014, 11:13:01 AM
Idaho hunterNo. I am saying the system the way it is (no "inheriting" points) does not need changed. Everybody is responsible for building their own points and we don't skew the system for one group of kids at the expense of a different group of kids.
Are you saying its unfair for kids to be born in a hunting dedicated family ? That their opportunity should be curved to let the "other" kids catch up ??
Post by: vandeman17 on April 02, 2014, 11:20:19 AM
Post by: rtspring on April 02, 2014, 11:22:21 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2014, 11:23:32 AM
The last part of my post was directed at the larger conversation occurring not just your specific post. However your sentence that I bolded above implies that you feel your family member should be entitled to more opportunity for a quality hunt in Washington than somebody who doesn't have a dad or someone to inherit points from. That is where we disagree...if you die with 18 elk points I say you had 18 years with a chance in the draw for a great elk hunt...and your kids can put in each year and also have a chance for a great hunt, but just because you didn't draw doesn't mean your family members chances should exponentially increase. I do not view special permits as entitlements to families who have applied for a long time and spent lots of money on application fees...I view them as "SPECIAL" opportunities.no where in any of my posts did I say they were an entitlement, did i? And the argument of if you dont like it then dont buy it crap, well that dont fly either. Did i ever say I was pissed at the current system? Nope. Did i say its b.s that we cant give them to are kids or seniors? Nope. I do recall however saying it should be allowed, it will suck to go my whole life without drawing A special permit and then DIE, all that money and noone in my family can bennefit, cant even pass the points on to my kids or grand kids.... kinda sucks....thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with :dunno:There is natural attrition or loss associated with points. If you can "will" them, it will reduce/eliminate that attrition and continue to increase point creep (go see Bob33's post on the point creep issue in WA). This will continue to further erode the odds of new and beginning hunters. :bdid:
Its great folks want to help youth and seniors. Nobody is arguing those of us who are able to should not help them. I take new kids hunting as often as my schedule allows. Most of them do not have a parent or family member that has much hunting experience. So no, I do not agree that simply because a kid comes from a long line of hunters he should have a huge advantage over the kid whose parent(s) also died tragically but did not come from a hunting family. Furthermore, points are an opportunity to increase your chance of drawing a tag...THEY ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT TO A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT! If you don't like the fact that you can not transfer or will them, then don't buy them...seems pretty simple.
Post by: Whitpirate on April 02, 2014, 11:29:14 AM
Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over.
:tup:
Isn't the purpose of this site to have a discussion. You sure seem to be willing to pass judgement and deem something done. Why don't you go drink a cup of coffee and walk outside or something and let the rest of us discuss something that will never happen. Maybe make a spreadsheet on the horrible effect of point creep that has doomed us all anyway.
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 11:31:45 AM
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Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
The greed shown here is sad at best! You point lovers should really look in the mirror!!! The MODS have just shown that other hunters have no respect because you want more Bone!!!! Pathetic...??? For me personally, I would be a HUGE beneficiary if the state were to adopt a system where points could be willed or inherited so I do not believe it is even remotely fair or accurate to suggest greed is the motive for folks opposed to an inheritance system for points...if that is your argument...maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying :dunno:
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 11:33:10 AM
Number 1 would be the end of all hunt, agreed
number 2 would be complicated and evidently unfair, i dont see it that way but obviously some do
but is still very do able with out killing bobcat odds of drawing a tag
Number 3 would be a relatively easy id think and could bring a lot of smiles to peoples faces
Inheriting points would lead to point creep in the future with out a doubt but I highly doubt by the time it would be a substantial issue that the points program is still even around
This thread has been an eye opener on how much value people put on them being behind the trigger on a limited draw hunt...seems pretty silly to me but I guess im just a kid who has been given way to much opportunity in his life to realize the value of a "Dayton tag"..its just unfair to give it away :rolleyes:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 02, 2014, 11:34:00 AM
My brother had a rocket land on his head, severing his left foot, right arm at the bicep, hundreds of lacerations over the surface of his body, rendering his head and face unrecognizable! So please Bob and Bob tell my why his son doesn't deserve his bull points! Feel free to use some more smart ass sarcasm in your comments, its much appreciated! :tup:Bobcat, go for it! And ask your relatives to will you those points you deserve now that you're nine. :tup:Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over.what are you 9? Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it?
:tup:
No, I'm not nine. But I sure wish I could be again! No more sore back, knees, hips, shoulders, etc. :tup: :IBCOOL:
Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2014, 11:35:34 AM
Because they're not his son's.
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 11:35:40 AM
dude you got me so confused I dont even know what i am looking at anymore, it seems to me some folks allow greed to lead them.... ASTA LAWEGO, thats Spanish for :hello: I think :chuckle:The last part of my post was directed at the larger conversation occurring not just your specific post. However your sentence that I bolded above implies that you feel your family member should be entitled to more opportunity for a quality hunt in Washington than somebody who doesn't have a dad or someone to inherit points from. That is where we disagree...if you die with 18 elk points I say you had 18 years with a chance in the draw for a great elk hunt...and your kids can put in each year and also have a chance for a great hunt, but just because you didn't draw doesn't mean your family members chances should exponentially increase. I do not view special permits as entitlements to families who have applied for a long time and spent lots of money on application fees...I view them as "SPECIAL" opportunities.no where in any of my posts did I say they were an entitlement, did i? And the argument of if you dont like it then dont buy it crap, well that dont fly either. Did i ever say I was pissed at the current system? Nope. Did i say its b.s that we cant give them to are kids or seniors? Nope. I do recall however saying it should be allowed, it will suck to go my whole life without drawing A special permit and then DIE, all that money and noone in my family can bennefit, cant even pass the points on to my kids or grand kids.... kinda sucks....thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with :dunno:There is natural attrition or loss associated with points. If you can "will" them, it will reduce/eliminate that attrition and continue to increase point creep (go see Bob33's post on the point creep issue in WA). This will continue to further erode the odds of new and beginning hunters. :bdid:
Its great folks want to help youth and seniors. Nobody is arguing those of us who are able to should not help them. I take new kids hunting as often as my schedule allows. Most of them do not have a parent or family member that has much hunting experience. So no, I do not agree that simply because a kid comes from a long line of hunters he should have a huge advantage over the kid whose parent(s) also died tragically but did not come from a hunting family. Furthermore, points are an opportunity to increase your chance of drawing a tag...THEY ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT TO A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT! If you don't like the fact that you can not transfer or will them, then don't buy them...seems pretty simple.
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
Discuss all you want. I guess some don't get my attempts at humor. :dunno:
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We need a sarcasm font :tup:
Post by: rtspring on April 02, 2014, 11:37:01 AM
No I dont want all points to be handed down , but with extreme situations I say YES YES YES..
Greedy greedy people on here! And you folks wonder why so many goid members have left this site?? Hmmm think about it!
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 11:43:09 AM
"So please Bob and Bob tell my why his son doesn't deserve his bull points!"wow bob33, your really concerned about someone having even the slightest bit of a better chance of drawing a tag than you even though I dont see how it would.... you act as if all the sudden that willing points would throw the permit system into a bigger spin than it already is. It wouldn't even happen but maybe a few times a year. :dunno:
Because they're not his son's.
Post by: Atroxus on April 02, 2014, 11:43:50 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 11:44:47 AM
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Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2014, 11:48:46 AM
You're assuming things for which you have no basis."So please Bob and Bob tell my why his son doesn't deserve his bull points!"wow bob33, your really concerned about someone having even the slightest bit of a better chance of drawing a tag than you even though I dont see how it would.... you act as if all the sudden that willing points would throw the permit system into a bigger spin than it already is. It wouldn't even happen but maybe a few times a year. :dunno:
Because they're not his son's.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2014, 11:50:25 AM
My brother had a rocket land on his head, severing his left foot, right arm at the bicep, hundreds of lacerations over the surface of his body, rendering his head and face unrecognizable! So please Bob and Bob tell my why his son doesn't deserve his bull points! Feel free to use some more smart ass sarcasm in your comments, its much appreciated! :tup:Any service members family who is killed in action in defense of this country deserves a hell of a lot more than some elk points. If this topic were "Should we allocate special tags to children of service members who were killed in action"...darn right would I be in favor of something like that. Given quality hunts are such a limited resource those tags would have to come from somewhere and I would be happy to eliminate auction/raffle tags to accomplish this.
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 11:51:05 AM
I think all have good intentions
Post by: vandeman17 on April 02, 2014, 11:56:22 AM
What if the "willed" points were only eligible to be used for buck or bull tags and not quality buck, quality bull or OIL? Would that make any difference. I see both sides of the argument and think this could alleviate a few of the downsides. The biggest issue would be separating them so maybe they would be a different kind of point, like an inherited point. So say a guy has 5 points and his gramps leaves him 15. He could still apply for a quality or OIL permit but only using his 5 points and the 15 points would be eligible for buck, bull or doe tags... :dunno:
What do you guys think of this idea since much of the debate is about hosing people who have waited and paid for their quality points for a long time?
Post by: Bullkllr on April 02, 2014, 12:00:37 PM
1. Raise permit fees again (all licenses, actually)
2. Create a whole new dept. to deal with special permit/points transfers,sales, trades- with new staff, possible assistant director. Probably require a new building.
3. Rule arbitrarily on transfer- in a typical bureaucratic nightmare way- and piss everyone off more than already
4. Cut-back tag numbers severely because wolves ate all the animals- so you'll have to havean extended family willing to grant all their points to one family member to have a chance to draw ("50 points is the new 10!")
In-short... they'll find a way to screw up even the best-intended idea... :chuckle:
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on April 02, 2014, 12:13:05 PM
Just kidding :chuckle:
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 12:19:11 PM
You know what the WDFW will do if some of these ideas become reality...:yeah: i seriously just pissed my shorts :chuckle:
1. Raise permit fees again (all licenses, actually)
2. Create a whole new dept. to deal with special permit/points transfers,sales, trades- with new staff, possible assistant director. Probably require a new building.
3. Rule arbitrarily on transfer- in a typical bureaucratic nightmare way- and piss everyone off more than already
4. Cut-back tag numbers severely because wolves ate all the animals- so you'll have to havean extended family willing to grant all their points to one family member to have a chance to draw ("50 points is the new 10!")
In-short... they'll find a way to screw up even the best-intended idea... :chuckle:
Post by: fair-chase on April 02, 2014, 12:19:53 PM
Quote
"50 points is the new 10!"
Unfortunately, that will be the case eventually regardless of weather points are passed down or not. Our odds of drawing a tag with a preference points scheme in place go down, not up, every year we apply. If we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
But that's not going to happen, because everyone wants an advantage (real or perceived) over the next guy. Some want it because of the financial investment they've made, some to preserve their legacy, and some for the sacrifices they've made. All valid reasons for wanting to keep your perceived advantage. But in the long term, preference points worsen your odds, and no amount of tweaking the system will fix that.
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 12:25:42 PM
damn fairchase brings up the best point of the day, so when my kids kids want to start huntn and this dumb point system is still in play well it will be really unfair because they will start off with no points and everyone else will have a minimum of say 50 or more points :dunno: how is a new hunter in 30 years ever suppose to be able to draw a special permit :dunno: riddle me that :tup:Quote"50 points is the new 10!"
Unfortunately, that will be the case eventually regardless of weather points are passed down or not. Our odds of drawing a tag with a preference points scheme in place go down, not up, every year we apply. If we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
But that's not going to happen, because everyone wants an advantage (real or perceived) over the next guy. Some want it because of the financial investment they've made, some to preserve their legacy, and some for the sacrifices they've made. All valid reasons for wanting to keep your perceived advantage. But in the long term, preference points worsen your odds, and no amount of tweaking the system will fix that.
Post by: vandeman17 on April 02, 2014, 12:28:58 PM
damn fairchase brings up the best point of the day, so when my kids kids want to start huntn and this dumb point system is still in play well it will be really unfair because they will start off with no points and everyone else will have a minimum of say 50 or more points :dunno: how is a new hunter in 30 years ever suppose to be able to draw a special permit :dunno: riddle me that :tup:Quote"50 points is the new 10!"
Unfortunately, that will be the case eventually regardless of weather points are passed down or not. Our odds of drawing a tag with a preference points scheme in place go down, not up, every year we apply. If we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
But that's not going to happen, because everyone wants an advantage (real or perceived) over the next guy. Some want it because of the financial investment they've made, some to preserve their legacy, and some for the sacrifices they've made. All valid reasons for wanting to keep your perceived advantage. But in the long term, preference points worsen your odds, and no amount of tweaking the system will fix that.
Hunt other states and you won't have to worry. :tup: :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2014, 12:30:20 PM
Quote
If we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
:yeah:
Post by: jackmaster on April 02, 2014, 12:35:37 PM
:yeah: :yeah:QuoteIf we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
:yeah:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 02, 2014, 12:52:16 PM
:yeah: Something we can all agree on :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle::yeah: :yeah:QuoteIf we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
:yeah:
Post by: kentrek on April 02, 2014, 12:54:33 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah::yeah: Something we can all agree on :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle::yeah: :yeah:QuoteIf we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
:yeah:
Post by: Tbob on April 02, 2014, 01:12:36 PM
Post by: Curly on April 02, 2014, 01:46:06 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah::yeah: Something we can all agree on :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle::yeah: :yeah:QuoteIf we really cared about our children, grandchildren, and future generations of hunters we would put an end to preference points.
:yeah:
:yeah:
:IBCOOL: Lots of agreement now. :tup: 8)
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2014, 02:32:40 PM
Post by: elkfins on April 02, 2014, 02:46:14 PM
Having said that, I would fully support the ability to will your points to someone else in the event of your death. What a great gift and potential lasting memory to leave for your child after you're gone.
Post by: arees on April 02, 2014, 04:50:12 PM
1) I would have little problem with someone handing a tag that they drew to an immediate family member. They applied for the points and won the permit lottery. I would restrict it to immediate family members so the rich guy can't put in applications for a few thousand of his "closest friends." The moderately well off person will benefit because they can put in all of their immediate family members just so they can hand off the tag. My wife doesn't apply for points because while she hunts, she is not that interested. If she could hand her tag over to our son we would apply for her as well so she could give any tag she drew to our son. The odds would be somewhat skewed, but not much.
2) I am in favor of helping youths and to some extent seniors. We have youth and senior hunts for that. We could shift more animals into the youth tag pool. I have no problem with that. It doesn't skew the odds in favor of the wealthy.
3) I have no problem with some special tags for wounded warrior efforts. There may be more wounded warriors than there are elk available. Set up a plan to use some tags for that purposes.
4) Don't implement a bad plan that is open for abuse to solve a problem that has a better solution. Charity for special cases of tragedy can be handled outside the points system. If someone has a tragedy that deserves special treatment then organize a hunt for them, out of state if applicable. I have donated to such efforts in the past and will again in the future. Don't change the points system so rich people can game the system in their favor. I thought conservative people were supposed to be in favor of leaving charity in the hands of the private sector.
5) It's not about greed, it's about not implementing a bad plan.
Post by: Jingles on April 02, 2014, 04:58:25 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on April 02, 2014, 09:52:11 PM
I'd say what I feel about the point system but I know for a fact that this sight is visited routinely by a WDFW supervisor that tells his people to watch for posters
It's ok for me- I made the "no draw list" a long time ago :chuckle:
Post by: Greg Mullins on April 03, 2014, 09:51:55 PM
Post by: Maverick on April 04, 2014, 09:03:54 AM
Post by: dis_pat_ on April 04, 2014, 09:54:03 AM
Post by: Fowlweather25 on April 04, 2014, 09:56:07 AM
Post by: huntnphool on April 04, 2014, 10:04:05 AM
The point of the raffle was to give the average joe a chance.I believe the point of the raffles was revenue generation, not giving the "average Joe" a chance. How many "average Joe's" can purchase 2500 tickets? :dunno:
WDFW admin. are not the brightest bunch out there but you can bet you're ars they knew full well what would happen if they left no "reasonable" limit on the ticket purchase. Now that they see what has happened why have they not changed it? :chuckle:
It's all about "REVENUE" and zero about "average Joe" or else it would have a 5 ticket per raffle maximum purchase! :twocents:
Post by: JLS on April 04, 2014, 12:35:50 PM
It's all about "REVENUE" and zero about "average Joe" or else it would have a 5 ticket per raffle maximum purchase! :twocents:
No shortage of truth to this. >:(
Post by: floatinghat on April 08, 2014, 08:16:41 PM
This I would support in some manner
*3) I have no problem with some special tags for wounded warrior efforts. There may be more wounded warriors than there are elk available. Set up a plan to use some tags for that purposes.
Post by: MattySuto on April 09, 2014, 10:12:02 PM
Why is this a bad idea? Aaron put in for permits religiously his whole hunting career and was never able to draw a tag before he paid the ultimate price! Why shouldn't he be able to leave his points to his son so he can one day fulfill his fathers dream!?!!I would like WDFW give us the ability to will our points to one family member.
Another bad idea! Only the person who earned the points should be able to use them.
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It's like the G I bill for us military folks.... I earned it for serving my country and can use it if I choose to or I can give it to my wife to use or any one of my 3 kids..... I think you should be able to sell it and maybe have WDFW take a very small percentage .... On what you sell it for for like state parks or something....