Post by: AspenBud on June 08, 2016, 08:28:28 AM
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/MIDNR/bulletins/14df6cb (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/MIDNR/bulletins/14df6cb)
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 08, 2016, 08:36:27 AM
Post by: constructeur on June 08, 2016, 05:13:13 PM
I'm not saying I condone certain DFW employees actions, but complaining about it does nothing but raise your blood pressure.
Post by: Bullkllr on June 08, 2016, 05:18:23 PM
:peep: Hey...someone was gonna say it...
Post by: wildweeds on June 08, 2016, 06:26:39 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 08, 2016, 07:09:53 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 08, 2016, 10:20:05 PM
Complaining about *censored*e government gets you no where, you have to adapt and overcome. Pay the fee for available properties, or have steering wheel time to better managed areas.
I'm not saying I condone certain DFW employees actions, but complaining about it does nothing but raise your blood pressure.
If you think i have only complained about it find a few more of my posts and do some searching :chuckle:
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 08, 2016, 10:30:22 PM
Unfortunately, WA will never have the grounds of other states. WA simply doesn't have the historic field trial culture found in other states. Plus, there's very little emphasis on true wild bird trials in WA state. Why, I'm not sure.
Good public ground you are right. How many years have you lived in Washington close to open bird country? I work for some farmers ad have access to around 20,000 acres between a couple guys I know well. I've met Andersons once and been told to check in if i ever wanted to bird hunt their 10k acres.
How long have you lived in Washington and what have you done to contribute to our hunting here? Any volunteer work or advocacy? Just seems you are an advocate of the ultra exclusive pointer grounds / plantation where there is zero public access???
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 08, 2016, 10:35:26 PM
Unfortunately, WA will never have the grounds of other states. WA simply doesn't have the historic field trial culture found in other states. Plus, there's very little emphasis on true wild bird trials in WA state. Why, I'm not sure.
Washington also held the first retriever field trial west of the Mississippi back in the day. So, if you stick to quail hunting and woodcock history you are partially right.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 08, 2016, 10:41:24 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 04:24:20 AM
Post by: birddogdad on June 09, 2016, 06:35:20 AM
Happy. Spout off at the mouth all you want, what I said is 100% true. Believe it or not, I lived in Ellensburg too and also met many of the farmers there. What you don't seem to understand is that in most of the states throughout the Midwest and Southeast, there are plenty of PUBLIC trial grounds supported by the states. We simply don't have that in WA, nore in Oregon or many of the other Western states. Why? Because there's not enough people who will push for it and fight for it. The field trial culture that exists in other state simply doesn't exist in WA. The culture that does exist places almost ZERO importance on wild bird trials. That is a fact! Until you meet a hard core pointer guy from the South, or a cover dog guy from the upper Midwest, you will never understand......What you don't seem to understand is there are many places in the South and Miswest that are state lands and the run some amazing wild bird trials on those lands. DiLane Plantation in GA is not ultra exclusive. It's public land that anyone can hunt and is managed specifically for wild quail, hunting, and trials. Unless the state of WA can get voters to fork over tens of millions of dollars of their tax money so the state an buy 6000-8000 acres in WA's prime quail and pheasant country, and then fork over the 100,000's of thousands of dollars every year to maintain it, WA will never have that. Sorry you don't like the truth, but that is the truth. It will never happen in WA state.
Never gonna happen, too busy here worrying about bicycle lanes....
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 08:19:40 AM
Post by: Colville on June 09, 2016, 09:21:12 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 09:52:21 AM
Why the emphasis on "public"? Frankly, private groups will always outperform the bureaucracy and regulation of anything the state provides. Why would this land have to be given to the state if purchased privately just to run trials? Buy the land, hold it in the name of a bird dog hunting charity and do it. I do not see how this is a function of government any more than building golf courses or marinas.
Wanna bet? The state of Georgia does a PHENOMINAL job with DiLane, and many of the other WMA's. Besides, public land can be used by anyone. Those high dollar plantations that Happy is talking about are very picky who they let on their grounds. When land is public, anyone can access it within the regulations of the land.
Post by: Colville on June 09, 2016, 09:59:58 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 10:16:54 AM
Post by: Colville on June 09, 2016, 10:20:44 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 11:27:01 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 11:28:45 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 12:00:43 PM
Those states also have HUGE bird raising programs to release all the wild birds like we do for trout. So the wild birds are heavily planted. Saw some stats on how many birds South Dakota buys each year compared to other states to make sure the wild bird population can support all the wild bird hunters. :chuckle:
Really? Besides SD, name one! How many "wild" birds do they release at DiLane plantation? Those pheasants released are in preserves as well. On a preserve, for every pheasant taken, a pheasant must be added. If your not hunting a preserve, your shooting wild birds.
Post by: singleshot12 on June 09, 2016, 12:09:50 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 12:46:20 PM
If WDFW really wanted or cared about it's upland they would pay farmers to leave habitat and not spray so many deadly pesticides. But WDFW are broke so the only hope is for private entities to pay the farmers to preserve habitat.
Or for the farmers to realize they could make a ton of money from trespass fees if they had good numbers of birds in their land. That's why so many farmers in SD don't cut hedge row to hedge row, and hey leave lots of strips.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 01:27:26 PM
In a state historically known for its resident big game hunting opportunities, a bird originally imported from China could potentially revive the tradition, along with struggling Eastern Plains economies. First, though, Colorado needs to revive its pheasant population.
After multiple years of drought and relaxed federal rules on haying and grazing of Conservation Reserve Program grasslands, habitat conditions are less than ideal for Colorado pheasants. Another dry spring meant fewer chicks were hatched in 2013, and pheasant populations are markedly lower than in 2010 and 2011.
It’s tough timing for the launch of a new Colorado Parks and Wildlife effort to recruit recent hunter education graduates to bird hunting. Working with Pheasants Forever, CPW’s Novice Hunter Program taught beginners the ins and outs of pheasant hunting, then gave them exclusive access to about 9,500 acres of hunting properties this fall as a confidence booster.
Without a reliable stable of birds, however, those early hunts can just as easily foster frustration. For that reason, King is throwing his weight behind another idea that has pheasant hunters excited. The Natural Resources director is interested in the idea of supplementing pheasant populations, much as the state does with fish stocking programs.
“It’s a species just like rainbow trout that was brought here to begin with. It is time to take a look and say, ‘Can we provide that recreational opportunity?’ ” King said. “I think you can make an argument that we can’t afford not to look at opportunities like this, because to do otherwise we’re just (hastening) our demise.”
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 01:30:15 PM
http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/habitat/wildlife/programs/uplandgamebird/release.html
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 01:32:31 PM
Bird dog training is allowed year-round in designated areas on the following WMAs. Training is allowed during daylight hours only or as otherwise specified. Only pen-raised quail and pigeons may be released and harvested using shotguns with number six or small shot while training pointing, flushing and retrieving dogs. Dog trainer must maintain proof of purchase if using pen-raised quail.
Georgia is a popular destination for all those quail...
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 01:35:43 PM
Beginning in fall of 2002, pen-raised quail were released on the field trial grounds. This was the first release in 27 years. The National Field Trial responded very positively and the program was considered successful as it supported that event. Release provided a unique opportunity to study the fate of pen-raised birds when they were released in superior habitat and in the presence of a relatively large population of wild quail. The questions centered around survival and breeding behaviors: would pen raised quail survive in numbers to support the trial, would they survive to breed, would they breed successfully, would they breed with wild quail and would they pass significant genetic components into the resident wild population?
During 2002 and for the next 3 years, 3,200 pen-raised quail were released on the 5,477-acre field trial course. To maintain an equal treatment, 1,600 birds were released on the morning and also the evening courses. Birds were released in coveys of 20 birds that had had time to bond in boxes designed specifically to carry birds. Each covey was released in a food patches, consisting primarily of grain sorghum, but also Egyptian wheat.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 01:36:27 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 01:42:51 PM
Colorado has no birds so they're about to start a planting program...
In a state historically known for its resident big game hunting opportunities, a bird originally imported from China could potentially revive the tradition, along with struggling Eastern Plains economies. First, though, Colorado needs to revive its pheasant population.
After multiple years of drought and relaxed federal rules on haying and grazing of Conservation Reserve Program grasslands, habitat conditions are less than ideal for Colorado pheasants. Another dry spring meant fewer chicks were hatched in 2013, and pheasant populations are markedly lower than in 2010 and 2011.
It’s tough timing for the launch of a new Colorado Parks and Wildlife effort to recruit recent hunter education graduates to bird hunting. Working with Pheasants Forever, CPW’s Novice Hunter Program taught beginners the ins and outs of pheasant hunting, then gave them exclusive access to about 9,500 acres of hunting properties this fall as a confidence booster.
Without a reliable stable of birds, however, those early hunts can just as easily foster frustration. For that reason, King is throwing his weight behind another idea that has pheasant hunters excited. The Natural Resources director is interested in the idea of supplementing pheasant populations, much as the state does with fish stocking programs.
“It’s a species just like rainbow trout that was brought here to begin with. It is time to take a look and say, ‘Can we provide that recreational opportunity?’ ” King said. “I think you can make an argument that we can’t afford not to look at opportunities like this, because to do otherwise we’re just (hastening) our demise.”
It's a PROPOSAL! Do you know what that means? Besides, doesn't WA state stock preserves with birds? Last time I checked, the entire western WA pheasant season was based on stocked pheasants.
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 01:49:46 PM
Not allowed to train on wild birds in many of the southern states with lots of bird dog enthusiasts..
Bird dog training is allowed year-round in designated areas on the following WMAs. Training is allowed during daylight hours only or as otherwise specified. Only pen-raised quail and pigeons may be released and harvested using shotguns with number six or small shot while training pointing, flushing and retrieving dogs. Dog trainer must maintain proof of purchase if using pen-raised quail.
Georgia is a popular destination for all those quail...
See, now you just look stupid. The regs you just posted only have to do with WMA dog training areas. You CAN train on wild birds. You just can't do it year round, like EVERY state in the union! If you want to train year round, i.e., when the birds are breeding, you can ONLY do it on pen released birds as to NOT disrupt the wild birds that are breeding. Those WMA's are maintained by the state so people have a place to train bird dogs all year round. You CANT train on wild birds year round. Yet weren't you the one trying to get support to cut some grass on training grounds in WA because the state wouldn't do it? They don't have that problem since GA supports large training grounds on many of the WMA's. Many, if not most of the big time pointer guys hold "winter camps" in the south, training and hunting their dogs on only wild birds.
Edit. Actually I was wrong. There is no closed season for training bird dogs in Georgia if your on private land. You can train on wild birds all year round on private land. There IS a bird dog training season on Federal land, which keeps people off the birds while they are breeding.
http://www.georgiawildlife.org/node/1053
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 01:55:39 PM
The National Field Trial at Ames Plantation uses pen raised birds. Says right on Ames Plantation webpage. You must be shocked!!!
No, they use pen raised birds as WELL as wild birds. Ames is one of those places where a rich guy with lots of land and money put his land away for future generations to enjoy and trial on. We have NOTHING like that in the PNW. Ames is a test bed for wild quail survival, quail habitat, and how to restore the wild quail in the South. They began to use pre-released birds because the bird numbers weren't supporting the trial. Pre-release is a LOT different than throw down trials. Besides, you can't even hunt Ames. It's strictly for research and trials. Can you name one place like that in the PNW?
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 02:14:05 PM
http://dixieplantation.org
Imagine the PNW with a place specifically managed for wild bird populations that only allowed trials to be run on those grounds. It will never happen......It happens in other parts of the country!!
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 05:31:23 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 09, 2016, 05:38:03 PM
You've said Ames is wild birds only and exclusively many times and its not. Neither are many state lands used for training. Sorry I look stupid. :chuckle:
I havent said its only wild birds. However, yes it is exclusive, I bet you've never met a dig it seen a dog that was even half qualified. But keep telling people you know what your talking about. Remember, before I explained it to you you didn't even know what American Field was. I suggest you stick to flushing and retrieving dogs, because you don't know squat about pointing dogs. Oh ya, good luck finding someone o cute the grass on your grounds. In GA, there's 10-20 state funded training grounds perfectly mainted with the grass cut!!
Post by: wildweeds on June 09, 2016, 06:09:18 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 09:47:09 PM
You've said Ames is wild birds only and exclusively many times and its not. Neither are many state lands used for training. Sorry I look stupid. :chuckle:
I havent said its only wild birds. However, yes it is exclusive, I bet you've never met a dig it seen a dog that was even half qualified. But keep telling people you know what your talking about. Remember, before I explained it to you you didn't even know what American Field was. I suggest you stick to flushing and retrieving dogs, because you don't know squat about pointing dogs. Oh ya, good luck finding someone o cute the grass on your grounds. In GA, there's 10-20 state funded training grounds perfectly mainted with the grass cut!!
You mean the reteiever grounds built by retriever clubs in TN and ga? Lol
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 10:48:22 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 09, 2016, 10:54:26 PM
You've said Ames is wild birds only and exclusively many times and its not. Neither are many state lands used for training. Sorry I look stupid. :chuckle:
I havent said its only wild birds. However, yes it is exclusive, I bet you've never met a dig it seen a dog that was even half qualified. But keep telling people you know what your talking about. Remember, before I explained it to you you didn't even know what American Field was. I suggest you stick to flushing and retrieving dogs, because you don't know squat about pointing dogs. Oh ya, good luck finding someone o cute the grass on your grounds. In GA, there's 10-20 state funded training grounds perfectly mainted with the grass cut!!
Why do choose to slum with such low lifes in the dog world like us peasants here on this page? I'd think by your affluence you'd be only chatting with the keeper of the plantations?
Post by: nanum on June 09, 2016, 11:44:06 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 06:45:22 AM
For anyone who may be interested in helping add positive input to help protect our public resources and land available to all dog trainers we have a group of people planning on attending the upcoming commissioners meeting to present testimony regarding our history and need for open spaces. Our support is currently comprised of pointer groups, retriever folks and other dog fanciers. If you would like to help us improve Washington properties contact me. If you prefer to write about what we don't have compared to other states you live in just find somewhere else to live and comment how good it it is to be there. Thanks to the folks who care to help. There are alot of you helping I know which prefer not to comment on website...and those who pick up a weed wacker and a mower to put hands on the ground where you live and train your dogs because you love the sport and don't care if your neighborhood isn't the best bird producing area in the world please continue supporting us who are working hard to make it better.
The OP's post wasn't about trying to find training grounds. The OP's post is about field trial grounds. I think it's great you guys have a grass root group trying to improve training opportunities in WA state. What WA doesn't have is the big money and big names really backing the cause. Let me give you an example. Ted Turner has shooting dogs that he trials (bet you didn't know that). Several years ago he bought the 9000 acre Naomi plantation in Georgia strictly for wild bird hunting and wild bird trials. He also has a 42000 acre ranch in Kansas where they are doing the same thing. I'm sure some day, when he's gone, that land will likely be turned over to the states, or set up in a trust for groups to run to manage for field trials and wild birds. In WAS, we simply don't have that kind of support. Why? Because we don't have the history and the culture of bird dogs that they have in other parts of the country. Sorry that makes you butt hurt, but that is the truth, and that's why not only does WA not have good trial grounds, you guys are struggling to even get good training grounds. Its ashame too, because WA has the land and the birds to support a truely world class field trial grounds. If you really want to help, continue doing what your doing, and then get as many kids as you can into bird dogs and upland hunting. If you truely want support for your cause, that's where the support will come from.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 07:11:48 AM
For anyone who may be interested in helping add positive input to help protect our public resources and land available to all dog trainers we have a group of people planning on attending the upcoming commissioners meeting to present testimony regarding our history and need for open spaces. Our support is currently comprised of pointer groups, retriever folks and other dog fanciers. If you would like to help us improve Washington properties contact me. If you prefer to write about what we don't have compared to other states you live in just find somewhere else to live and comment how good it it is to be there. Thanks to the folks who care to help. There are alot of you helping I know which prefer not to comment on website...and those who pick up a weed wacker and a mower to put hands on the ground where you live and train your dogs because you love the sport and don't care if your neighborhood isn't the best bird producing area in the world please continue supporting us who are working hard to make it better.
The OP's post wasn't about trying to find training grounds. The OP's post is about field trial grounds. I think it's great you guys have a grass root group trying to improve training opportunities in WA state. What WA doesn't have is the big money and big names really backing the cause. Let me give you an example. Ted Turner has shooting dogs that he trials (bet you didn't know that). Several years ago he bought the 9000 acre Naomi plantation in Georgia strictly for wild bird hunting and wild bird trials. He also has a 42000 acre ranch in Kansas where they are doing the same thing. I'm sure some day, when he's gone, that land will likely be turned over to the states, or set up in a trust for groups to run to manage for field trials and wild birds. In WAS, we simply don't have that kind of support. Why? Because we don't have the history and the culture of bird dogs that they have in other parts of the country. Sorry that makes you butt hurt, but that is the truth, and that's why not only does WA not have good trial grounds, you guys are struggling to even get good training grounds. Its ashame too, because WA has the land and the birds to support a truely world class field trial grounds. If you really want to help, continue doing what your doing, and then get as many kids as you can into bird dogs and upland hunting. If you truely want support for your cause, that's where the support will come from.
My point was you might struggle for what you do and what I do could help you someday. I have plenty of places to train and I have thousands of acres in eastern WA I have permission to use. Yes, believe it or not it is not open to the public and there are lots of birds and big game... My butt is never hurt. Just tired of you repeating the same old stuff over and over and over... We get it dude. You know all about the beat places for dogs (specific to what you do) and nothing anywhere compares to how cool and prestigious the places you use are especially in Washington. If you didn't notice, the name of this page is hunt WA. Not hunt Ames, ted turners house, or whatever else you boast about each time you write something about all the worlds wild birds are only found in the exclusively places where you and your wild bird only dogs go
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 07:56:53 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 08:30:40 AM
No, the OP's post was about why WA doesn't have field trial grounds like they do in other states. In order to understand why WA doesn't, you have to understand why other states do. The stuff your tired of hearing IS the reason we don't have those types of grounds. Sorry your tired of hearing the truth and facts, but those are the truths and facts!......You don't understand pointing dog field trials. You don't understand that in the PNW, there is almost no emphasis on wild bird trials. In other places in the country, especially in the AF world, that's the main emphasis. You don't understand why most pros in the Midwest and South spend their summers in the prairies on wild birds, while very few, if any Pros in the PNW do. There's a reason for it, but you will never know because your too busy spouting off at the mouth and getting butt hurt, and not listening. Your probably the same type of person that will say trial dogs don't make good hunting dogs, yet you don't understand why people say that, all your doing is repeating something someone else told you. You don't understand why there is so much emphasize put on wild birds. . In the South, especially in the AF world, people with knowledge don't say that! I'm sorry your tired of hearing about WA states shortcomings when it comes to bird dogs. You can't fix the problem unless you know why the problem exists. I'm sorry you can't handle the truth.
Did you use the voice when you typed that out?? :chuckle: I'm not always repeating what other people told me like you do with what your trainer told you about dog training but, when I do it's coming from someone who's done a lot more than you will ever do.. :chuckle:
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 08:34:21 AM
No, the OP's post was about why WA doesn't have field trial grounds like they do in other states. In order to understand why WA doesn't, you have to understand why other states do. The stuff your tired of hearing IS the reason we don't have those types of grounds. Sorry your tired of hearing the truth and facts, but those are the truths and facts!......You don't understand pointing dog field trials. You don't understand that in the PNW, there is almost no emphasis on wild bird trials. In other places in the country, especially in the AF world, that's the main emphasis. You don't understand why most pros in the Midwest and South spend their summers in the prairies on wild birds, while very few, if any Pros in the PNW do. There's a reason for it, but you will never know because your too busy spouting off at the mouth and getting butt hurt, and not listening. Your probably the same type of person that will say trial dogs don't make good hunting dogs, yet you don't understand why people say that, all your doing is repeating something someone else told you. You don't understand why there is so much emphasize put on wild birds. . In the South, especially in the AF world, people with knowledge don't say that! I'm sorry your tired of hearing about WA states shortcomings when it comes to bird dogs. You can't fix the problem unless you know why the problem exists. I'm sorry you can't handle the truth.
I have never said that at all. What I did hear you say over and over is that all those places are all wild birds. They are not. Ames plants PEN RAISED BIRDS FOR THE NATIONAL.... OMG!!!!!!! :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: Colin on June 10, 2016, 09:27:11 AM
I assume "field trials" is being used in the pointer field trials sense only?For anyone who may be interested in helping add positive input to help protect our public resources and land available to all dog trainers we have a group of people planning on attending the upcoming commissioners meeting to present testimony regarding our history and need for open spaces. Our support is currently comprised of pointer groups, retriever folks and other dog fanciers. If you would like to help us improve Washington properties contact me. If you prefer to write about what we don't have compared to other states you live in just find somewhere else to live and comment how good it it is to be there. Thanks to the folks who care to help. There are alot of you helping I know which prefer not to comment on website...and those who pick up a weed wacker and a mower to put hands on the ground where you live and train your dogs because you love the sport and don't care if your neighborhood isn't the best bird producing area in the world please continue supporting us who are working hard to make it better.
The OP's post wasn't about trying to find training grounds. The OP's post is about field trial grounds. I think it's great you guys have a grass root group trying to improve training opportunities in WA state. What WA doesn't have is the big money and big names really backing the cause. Let me give you an example. Ted Turner has shooting dogs that he trials (bet you didn't know that). Several years ago he bought the 9000 acre Naomi plantation in Georgia strictly for wild bird hunting and wild bird trials. He also has a 42000 acre ranch in Kansas where they are doing the same thing. I'm sure some day, when he's gone, that land will likely be turned over to the states, or set up in a trust for groups to run to manage for field trials and wild birds. In WAS, we simply don't have that kind of support. Why? Because we don't have the history and the culture of bird dogs that they have in other parts of the country. Sorry that makes you butt hurt, but that is the truth, and that's why not only does WA not have good trial grounds, you guys are struggling to even get good training grounds. Its ashame too, because WA has the land and the birds to support a truely world class field trial grounds. If you really want to help, continue doing what your doing, and then get as many kids as you can into bird dogs and upland hunting. If you truely want support for your cause, that's where the support will come from.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 09:54:54 AM
I assume "field trials" is being used in the pointer field trials sense only?For anyone who may be interested in helping add positive input to help protect our public resources and land available to all dog trainers we have a group of people planning on attending the upcoming commissioners meeting to present testimony regarding our history and need for open spaces. Our support is currently comprised of pointer groups, retriever folks and other dog fanciers. If you would like to help us improve Washington properties contact me. If you prefer to write about what we don't have compared to other states you live in just find somewhere else to live and comment how good it it is to be there. Thanks to the folks who care to help. There are alot of you helping I know which prefer not to comment on website...and those who pick up a weed wacker and a mower to put hands on the ground where you live and train your dogs because you love the sport and don't care if your neighborhood isn't the best bird producing area in the world please continue supporting us who are working hard to make it better.
The OP's post wasn't about trying to find training grounds. The OP's post is about field trial grounds. I think it's great you guys have a grass root group trying to improve training opportunities in WA state. What WA doesn't have is the big money and big names really backing the cause. Let me give you an example. Ted Turner has shooting dogs that he trials (bet you didn't know that). Several years ago he bought the 9000 acre Naomi plantation in Georgia strictly for wild bird hunting and wild bird trials. He also has a 42000 acre ranch in Kansas where they are doing the same thing. I'm sure some day, when he's gone, that land will likely be turned over to the states, or set up in a trust for groups to run to manage for field trials and wild birds. In WAS, we simply don't have that kind of support. Why? Because we don't have the history and the culture of bird dogs that they have in other parts of the country. Sorry that makes you butt hurt, but that is the truth, and that's why not only does WA not have good trial grounds, you guys are struggling to even get good training grounds. Its ashame too, because WA has the land and the birds to support a truely world class field trial grounds. If you really want to help, continue doing what your doing, and then get as many kids as you can into bird dogs and upland hunting. If you truely want support for your cause, that's where the support will come from.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Yes, he doesn't know about Pin Oaks/ Peppers Pond in AR or Cooper Black which are also State owned and supported and often maintained and sometimes built by dog clubs. Or probably August Busch's grounds?? (Budweiser sponsored) I don't know about places anywhere except here in Washington State that have a little group of people trying to mow ground. Nor have I been to a couple hundred private acres near Palm Springs built for retrievers and I didn't go there for Christmas or, head to Montana and spend any time on 5 different private properties built for dogs just a week ago while I was judging.. :chuckle:.. I don't travel at all...lol to Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, California or Alaska and Montana and Wyoming and Utah and Kansas or North Dakota and Nebraska already this year... :chuckle: or South Dakota and going to Iowa at the end of the month to pick up my dog truck.. hahahaa
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 09:57:06 AM
All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds. They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about. Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain. You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
[/quote]
Yes, because that's what the OP was referring to. In case Happy missed it, here's the article. It's too bad Happy has never lived anywhere else to experience how different states support bird dogs.
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2016 marks 100 years of dog field trials in Gladwin
Michigan DNR sent this bulletin at 06/08/2016 10:00 AM EDT
dnr logo
Statewide DNR News
June 8, 2016
Contact: Bruce Barlow, 989-426-9205, ext. 7631
2016 marks 100 years of dog field trials in Gladwin
Gladwin Field Trial Area dog handlerThe Gladwin Field Trial Area will celebrate its 100th anniversary Saturday, June 18. The Department of Natural Resources invites the public to come and enjoy a celebration of a century-old Michigan tradition with an 11 a.m. ceremony at Alibi Hall at the Gladwin Field Trial Area in Meredith, Michigan.
“We are excited to celebrate this special place with its long-standing history, traditions and habitat management for ruffed grouse and American woodcock,” said DNR wildlife biologist Bruce Barlow. “The Gladwin Field Trial Area is the best field-trialing venue in the nation.”
Located in the northwest corner of Gladwin County on more than 4,900 acres, the Gladwin Field Trial Area brings people from all over the country for premier dog field trials, which are competitions for hunting dogs to test their levels of skill and training in locating and pointing. Trials are held in the early spring and again in the late summer and early fall, avoiding the quiet period when birds are nesting. The uniqueness of these field trials comes from the dogs working wild native birds, ruffed grouse and woodcock. Birds are not placed in the Gladwin Field Trial Area. With an intense timber management program, this area – which includes 14 different field trial courses – can hold birds with its young forest habitat.
“Many folks and their families, some through multiple generations, have numerous and cherished memories out here,” said Barlow. “It’s going to be a wonderful afternoon having everyone out to Alibi Hall, which itself is a great piece of field trial history.”
For more information about the anniversary celebration, call 989-426-9205, ext. 7631.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 10:12:06 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 10:14:50 AM
I guess if you can't find a way to train a dog on those grounds maybe you too should just use a rubber chicken scent and a plywood dog to get your point..
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 10:17:54 AM
you so funny when you get all worked up....... :chuckle: it's almost a pleasure to keep replying because you just can't stop yourself from repeating the same thing you said about 10 times in this thread already..
It's fun to make you look stupid when it comes to pointing dogs. But keep it up! Then again Paul, your reputation precedes you!
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 10:30:33 AM
speaking of google.. you ever used it? You should look on it. There are hundreds if not thousands of unbroken 20,000 acre+ areas that you could use if you know people. My buddy's ranch in Lamont has about 4-5 different ponds, miles upon miles of wheat, CRP and some irrigated crop. Same with another friends place in Marlin.
I guess if you can't find a way to train a dog on those grounds maybe you too should just use a rubber chicken scent and a plywood dog to get your point..
I guess you forgot the original point of this thread being land supported by the state!
I have 75 sq miles in SD, and probably 25 miles in NE, that I can train on anytime I want. I've got one of my pups in TX on a ranch that's 25-30sq miles, and loaded with quail, that I can use as well. Plus, I can train on scaleys on all the state land I could ever want within a 1.5hr drive of my house. That's what I'm loving about living in CO! Most of the best hunting in this country is within an easy 8hr drive.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 10:54:04 AM
This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it. This thread is about pointing dogs. You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will.
I might not be an expert on deciphering wild quail from pen raised quail running free on Ames Ranch but, I've been around a good lot of pointing breeds (some pretty decent ones but, I don't think they went to Ames so, I'm sure they aren't as good as anything you've ever seen or done) while living at a kennel that mainly trained pointing dogs for 8 years. And, I've been to more than one horse back trial. I've only planted birds at one horseback trial my friend.
You know alot about places far from here which have no relevance to really anyone local here in Washington. It seems like it would make more sense that you chatted up the antiquities of Ames Plantation and the history of the prestigious American Field venue on a site with other like minded enthusiasts.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 10:56:41 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 11:09:40 AM
In case you missed it, here's a refresher! Do you care to respond to the OP why the state doesn't support high quality trial grounds?
And don't call it Ames Ranch. It makes you sound clueless. It's called Ames Plantation..
WDFW where are you?
« on: June 08, 2016, 08:28:28 AM »
Quote
Got this in an e-mail today and it made me think of how little support the WDFW has for bird dog folks, let alone spaces like this, these days"
Post by: Bluemoon on June 10, 2016, 01:46:50 PM
East Seattle Pointer club started out as AF running at Scatter Creek (WA ST owned) in 1952 once again it was a native hun meca. Little history there.
In Oregon now AFTCA trials are running in places such as Tye Valley and Condon. Crawling with wild birds and yes just like back east they all supplement there trials and grounds with planted birds.
OK these are just a few that come to mind if I had to I could come up with more But I won't nor will I comment any more on this.
My final words are this. Please be careful on who you are calling stupid when you don't know them. Mr. Happy has brought more people into the dog world of trials and test then anyone I know without ever asking for anything because he is passionate about what he enjoys. When is the last time any of us have done the same?
I am proud to call him a friend..
Post by: AspenBud on June 10, 2016, 01:56:50 PM
Happy. Spout off at the mouth all you want, what I said is 100% true. Believe it or not, I lived in Ellensburg too and also met many of the farmers there. What you don't seem to understand is that in most of the states throughout the Midwest and Southeast, there are plenty of PUBLIC trial grounds supported by the states. We simply don't have that in WA, nore in Oregon or many of the other Western states. Why? Because there's not enough people who will push for it and fight for it. The field trial culture that exists in other state simply doesn't exist in WA. The culture that does exist places almost ZERO importance on wild bird trials. That is a fact! Until you meet a hard core pointer guy from the South, or a cover dog guy from the upper Midwest, you will never understand......What you don't seem to understand is there are many places in the South and Miswest that are state lands and the run some amazing wild bird trials on those lands. DiLane Plantation in GA is not ultra exclusive. It's public land that anyone can hunt and is managed specifically for wild quail, hunting, and trials. Unless the state of WA can get voters to fork over tens of millions of dollars of their tax money so the state an buy 6000-8000 acres in WA's prime quail and pheasant country, and then fork over the 100,000's of thousands of dollars every year to maintain it, WA will never have that. Sorry you don't like the truth, but that is the truth. It will never happen in WA state.
Never gonna happen, too busy here worrying about bicycle lanes....
...and elk...
Post by: AspenBud on June 10, 2016, 02:16:06 PM
Someone mentioned Scatter Creek, that's a great example since you can no longer ride a horse there as I understand it. That effectively pushes a lot of pointing dog trials out.
Then there is the matter of how they have been screwing around with training grounds. Happy has been fighting that fight for a while now.
It's fine and well to use private grounds, but when the state (our DNR and WDFW) doesn't seem to take a whole lot of pride in what it does for the bird dog community, and in some cases seems to view it as a pain, it would seem to be only a matter of time before sweeping restrictions that affect everything from public property to private will be supported by them. I hope I'm just being overly paranoid there but given political trends...
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 02:23:54 PM
My point with the original post is that state agencies here don't seem to value bird dog owners and events as much as others in the country do. If anything they seem to be clamping down on it these days.
Someone mentioned Scatter Creek, that's a great example since you can no longer ride a horse there as I understand it. That effectively pushes a lot of pointing dog trials out.
Then there is the matter of how they have been screwing around with training grounds. Happy has been fighting that fight for a while now.
It's fine and well to use private grounds, but when the state (our DNR and WDFW) doesn't seem to take a whole lot of pride in what it does for the bird dog community, and in some cases seems to view it as a pain, it would seem to be only a matter of time before sweeping restrictions that affect everything from public property to private will be supported by them. I hope I'm just being overly paranoid there but given political trends...
Aspen, you've been around and you've seen it. These other guys haven't. Why WA doesn't support trials and bird dogs is simple, there just isn't the history (contrary to what was stated above) and the numbers to support the pointing dog world like there is in other parts of the country.
Btw. If a dog can't handle quail or pheasants the dog shouldn't be trialing, or even hunted over.
Post by: Special T on June 10, 2016, 02:58:46 PM
In many other places it is the pride or accepted culture for sport hunting events. Wa state west side is too "cultured" for such low brow activies... This is the general feeling I get from the wdfw perhaps in reaction to the pierce king snohomish county population.
Post by: jetjockey on June 10, 2016, 04:09:50 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 10, 2016, 04:35:40 PM
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 10, 2016, 08:51:37 PM
No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will. This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it. This thread is about pointing dogs. You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will. I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice. You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me. When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read. When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't. Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail. I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either. I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds.. Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest. Those are all completly wild bird trials. Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one. You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials. Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is. You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs. I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers. You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs. The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.Ran or watched meaning mostly watched... And don't train your own dogs.... Anyone with a wallet can do that...
All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds. They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about. Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain. You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 10, 2016, 09:02:47 PM
Post by: wildweeds on June 10, 2016, 10:13:20 PM
Post by: constructeur on June 10, 2016, 10:28:15 PM
Plus I'd rather hunt chukar over quail anyday... There are no chukar over there so it's useless to me... Quail ain't worth the cost of the ammo to shoot them...
I nominate myself to shoot all Quail pointed by your fine beast this season :IBCOOL:
Wildweeds- You missed the point; Jockey runs 3/4 sized dogs trained by someone else and is the kind of guy that farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles.
Post by: wildweeds on June 11, 2016, 12:07:07 AM
Plus I'd rather hunt chukar over quail anyday... There are no chukar over there so it's useless to me... Quail ain't worth the cost of the ammo to shoot them...
I nominate myself to shoot all Quail pointed by your fine beast this season :IBCOOL:
Wildweeds- You missed the point; Jockey runs 3/4 sized dogs trained by someone else and is the kind of guy that farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles.
[/quote]
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 06:52:46 AM
No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will. This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it. This thread is about pointing dogs. You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will. I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice. You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me. When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read. When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't. Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail. I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either. I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds.. Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest. Those are all completly wild bird trials. Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one. You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials. Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is. You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs. I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers. You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs. The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.Ran or watched meaning mostly watched... And don't train your own dogs.... Anyone with a wallet can do that...
All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds. They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about. Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain. You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.
Actually, I rarely get to watch my dog run. When I make it to trials, I'm usually running my dogs. I, like many people in the pointing dog world, start my dogs and then send them off to a Pro to be finished. Why? Because I don't have the time, the land, And especially the birds, to do it myself. I can't take off an entire summer to go to SD to train my dog on wild birds at summer camp, so I pay someone to do it. And I'll never appoligize for that because it makes a superior hunting and trialing dog. Besides that, a Pro can do it better. That's why they are Pros, and Im allowed to run in Amateur stakes. None of that changes the fact that I'm spot on in my posts however.
Wild, the only reason I bust your balls is because you blast the Brittany guys for closed trials, and seem to think there's a "Brittany palooza" somewhere in Texas that the Brit guys use to stockpile points. I've asked you about it after you mentioned it and never got any response from you. I can assure you, this "Brittany palooza" you think exists, doesn't. Besides, in the Brittany world the only points that matter are points from Brittany trials, so there's no point in this "Brittany palooza" you have talked about. That's why Brit Pros rarely spend the time to go to the AKC Nationals when they could be getting points for the Purina Dog of the year award or the Garmin Dog of the year award. Those are the only points that matter in the Brittany world. I busted your balls because you bashed Brits, yet if I remember correctly, your dog lost to its brace mate, which was a Brit, at the All Breed AKC Nationals. That's the only reason Uve busted your tail about your dog. I'm sure he was a very, very nice dog. But there's lots of nice dogs out there, and even the best leave us scratching our heads at times.
Post by: AspenBud on June 11, 2016, 08:00:08 AM
But at the end of it most Pointers have some Southern dog in them so...I pay attention to Southern trials.
If my breed, and lines, of choice were different I would probably see things differently.
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 11, 2016, 10:04:39 AM
Exactly so do pretend like your an expert if you don't have the time to be one... Now if you trained and handled your own dog than I say hats off to you... And you can still have your am status if you train your own dog... Plus much more rewarding... And how you don't have the time or the resources!?? Then that shows your priorities are not with the dogs...No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will. This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it. This thread is about pointing dogs. You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will. I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice. You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me. When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read. When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't. Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail. I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either. I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds.. Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest. Those are all completly wild bird trials. Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one. You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials. Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is. You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs. I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers. You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs. The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.Ran or watched meaning mostly watched... And don't train your own dogs.... Anyone with a wallet can do that...
All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds. They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about. Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain. You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.
Actually, I rarely get to watch my dog run. When I make it to trials, I'm usually running my dogs. I, like many people in the pointing dog world, start my dogs and then send them off to a Pro to be finished. Why? Because I don't have the time, the land, And especially the birds, to do it myself. I can't take off an entire summer to go to SD to train my dog on wild birds at summer camp, so I pay someone to do it. And I'll never appoligize for that because it makes a superior hunting and trialing dog. Besides that, a Pro can do it better. That's why they are Pros, and Im allowed to run in Amateur stakes. None of that changes the fact that I'm spot on in my posts however.
Wild, the only reason I bust your balls is because you blast the Brittany guys for closed trials, and seem to think there's a "Brittany palooza" somewhere in Texas that the Brit guys use to stockpile points. I've asked you about it after you mentioned it and never got any response from you. I can assure you, this "Brittany palooza" you think exists, doesn't. Besides, in the Brittany world the only points that matter are points from Brittany trials, so there's no point in this "Brittany palooza" you have talked about. That's why Brit Pros rarely spend the time to go to the AKC Nationals when they could be getting points for the Purina Dog of the year award or the Garmin Dog of the year award. Those are the only points that matter in the Brittany world. I busted your balls because you bashed Brits, yet if I remember correctly, your dog lost to its brace mate, which was a Brit, at the All Breed AKC Nationals. That's the only reason Uve busted your tail about your dog. I'm sure he was a very, very nice dog. But there's lots of nice dogs out there, and even the best leave us scratching our heads at times.
Post by: constructeur on June 11, 2016, 10:19:28 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 10:31:16 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 10:40:25 AM
Just another nouveau riche dude that throws $$$ at it and expects us to be excited when he makes the podium at his little doggy comp. Know why when he makes a post only 3-4 people (one of which is always Aspenbud) reply? It's because this is a boot hunter/ meat dog/ local forum, and no one really gives a crap about a poseur from out of town.
What's I boot hunter, meat dog?
Btw. I'm not from out of town, and last time I checked, this is a bird dog forum and unless I missed it, it doesn't specify between "boot hunting meat dogs", and trials/competition. Besides, every gun dog forum I'm on guys talk about trialing as well as hunting. But thanks for proving my point that trials just don't have the support it takes for the state to back trials and training grounds in WA. If there were more trialers in WA, you'd see a lot more responses.
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 11, 2016, 11:05:38 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 11:19:22 AM
Well i know plenty of people that can train fully broke dogs with kids and family ect... Just depends on how passionate you are... 1 hr a day out of your schedule??? Come on! It doesn't mean anything if you just handled the dog... All the hard work has been done... And with the Washington aspect, most of us want to just kill stuff up here... Mostly waterfowl guys up here so why would you expect it to have a huge pointing dog trial scene?
There's a lot more to training a trial dog than just breaking the dog. Sure, I could go get a launcher and throw birds in the air and break a dog, but that dog isn't going to win any trials. I give my dogs the chance to see if they will make trial dogs. It takes thousands of acres, tons of wild birds, and LOTS of time to train and break a trial dog. And I'm not talking just weekend trials, I'm talking about 1hr+ Championships that often have purses. That's why the top trial Pros head to the praries during the summer to put their dogs on thousands of wild birds in wide open spaces. You can't get that putting a dog on a barrel in your back yard for 15-20 minutes a day..... Plus, those "trial" dogs turn out to be great hunting dogs as a byproduct of all the wild birds, so it makes sense to me to at least give them a chance, instead of just breaking them on pigeons in my back yard. If your ever board, look at the top dogs in the country in points standings. You will quickly see that dogs really hit their stride when they reach about 5 years of age. It's no different than any Pro sport. It takes time to develop a truely great dog, you can't do that in your back yard.
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 11, 2016, 11:28:59 AM
Post by: constructeur on June 11, 2016, 11:40:46 AM
boot hunter= regular joe with a self trained dog
Reply if you want, but I've said my piece and I'm done. After reading your mental masturbation for a long time I just wanted to point out to you that it's you that looks 'stupid' as you like to say, and that you're irrelevant on this forum.
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 11:54:40 AM
I'm not talking about barrels in the backyard or launchers... but that stuff is where it starts... The rest is applying it on wild birds which is where hunting comes in... But yes I do see the point of the time commitment it takes to jump through all the trial hoops. Which by no means field trial dogs are the better hunters it's just a different dog game people like to play... At the end of the day we have these dogs for one reason and that's to hunt and have a best friend around the house... Which sounds to me like you don't get to spend much time with your best friend?
That's the great thing about trials, hunting, and sending a dog to camp. You get to spend 8 months of the year playing dog games. You don't get to do that if you just hunt them.
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 11:58:24 AM
You don't get responses to your posts because you present yourself as a butt hole. Nearly all of your posts are either you gloating of what your pro trainer has done with your dog, or you finding some nit to pick or hair to split, with someone and you end with calling them names.
boot hunter= regular joe with a self trained dog
Reply if you want, but I've said my piece and I'm done. After reading your mental masturbation for a long time I just wanted to point out to you that it's you that looks 'stupid' as you like to say, and that you're irrelevant on this forum.
Can a trial dog that hunts a ton not be a "boot hunter"? What about a dog that is used for trialing half the hunting season, and is guide dog the other half. Is that not a "boot hunter"? What about a dog that hunts during hunting season, and trials when it's not hunted? See how rediculous the "boot hunter" label is.
Btw. Your opinion means squat to me!
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 11, 2016, 12:05:43 PM
Oh and that's what the dog games are for is to extend the fun you have with your buddy. But you miss a a huge portion of the fun and fulfillment if you have a trainer do the training. I'd rather score lower with my self trained dog than get a high score with my dog that was pro trained.I'm not talking about barrels in the backyard or launchers... but that stuff is where it starts... The rest is applying it on wild birds which is where hunting comes in... But yes I do see the point of the time commitment it takes to jump through all the trial hoops. Which by no means field trial dogs are the better hunters it's just a different dog game people like to play... At the end of the day we have these dogs for one reason and that's to hunt and have a best friend around the house... Which sounds to me like you don't get to spend much time with your best friend?
That's the great thing about trials, hunting, and sending a dog to camp. You get to spend 8 months of the year playing dog games. You don't get to do that if you just hunt them.
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 11, 2016, 12:08:57 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
Post by: addicted2hunting on June 11, 2016, 12:37:22 PM
That's the difference between trials and tests. In trials, you don't get points, you either beat the best dogs or you don't. AKC places 4 dogs, AF places a Champion and RU champion, and at the AF Nationals, you win or go home, there is no second place. If a Pro shows up with his string, your going to waste an entry fee because unless your a really, really good amateur, your not going to be able to compete. That's one reason they have amateur stakes. Pros go through tons of dogs finding that needle in the haystack dog capable of competing at the highest level. Most Amateurs don't have that ability. Even if you beat the Pro in your brace, he's just going to go back in the trailer and get another dog just as good if not better than the one you beat. In Hunt tests, you compete against a standard. You can finish a dog even if it's the worst dog at the Hunt tests, provided it meets the standard. It doesn't work that way in trials.Yeah and that's totally fine, I'll never probably play field trials except nstra stuff. But in Washington like I stated above, it's far outweighed by the retriever world. In the Midwest it's the other way around so that's why it's such a huge deal there. But you won't find much in terms of support here talking about your britts being pro trained and ran in these big trials... Or in your big time field trial ventures... Cause us in Washington aren't interested in what goes on in Georgia ETC.... There are plenty field trials in Washington but it doesn't get the big exposure because we live in a liberal state...
Post by: jetjockey on June 11, 2016, 01:14:32 PM
Post by: AspenBud on June 12, 2016, 10:11:52 AM
I'm not talking about barrels in the backyard or launchers... but that stuff is where it starts... The rest is applying it on wild birds which is where hunting comes in... But yes I do see the point of the time commitment it takes to jump through all the trial hoops. Which by no means field trial dogs are the better hunters it's just a different dog game people like to play...
Trials are used as a way to prove dogs and to select the best candidates for breeding. Much the same as hunt tests.
If a dog can handle the extremes demanded in field trialing, from training to performance, it's offspring will likely be able to handle anything a hunter throws at it.
Case in point, Mile Post 9, if generations of dogs from a line have proven themselves there and you are a regular chukar hunter, those dogs would be worth checking out.
Don't get me wrong, there is a fun component to trialing too, but there is a practical side to it from a breeding perspective and if you are looking for a pup.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 13, 2016, 08:33:02 AM
That's the difference between trials and tests. In trials, you don't get points, you either beat the best dogs or you don't. AKC places 4 dogs, AF places a Champion and RU champion, and at the AF Nationals, you win or go home, there is no second place. If a Pro shows up with his string, your going to waste an entry fee because unless your a really, really good amateur, your not going to be able to compete. That's one reason they have amateur stakes. Pros go through tons of dogs finding that needle in the haystack dog capable of competing at the highest level. Most Amateurs don't have that ability. Even if you beat the Pro in your brace, he's just going to go back in the trailer and get another dog just as good if not better than the one you beat. In Hunt tests, you compete against a standard. You can finish a dog even if it's the worst dog at the Hunt tests, provided it meets the standard. It doesn't work that way in trials.Yeah and that's totally fine, I'll never probably play field trials except nstra stuff. But in Washington like I stated above, it's far outweighed by the retriever world. In the Midwest it's the other way around so that's why it's such a huge deal there. But you won't find much in terms of support here talking about your britts being pro trained and ran in these big trials... Or in your big time field trial ventures... Cause us in Washington aren't interested in what goes on in Georgia ETC.... There are plenty field trials in Washington but it doesn't get the big exposure because we live in a liberal state...
The South is HUGE in retrievers...HUUUUUGGGEEEE... Same with Texas. 150 dog Open stakes in field trials weekend after weekend. The south gets a bit of that too. Usually, 2-3 100+ dog open stakes going the same weekend within 200-300 miles of one another too.
Post by: constructeur on June 19, 2016, 01:55:56 PM
Trials are used as a way to prove dogs and to select the best candidates for breeding. Much the same as hunt tests.
If a dog can handle the extremes demanded in field trialing, from training to performance, it's offspring will likely be able to handle anything a hunter throws at it.
Case in point, Mile Post 9, if generations of dogs from a line have proven themselves there and you are a regular chukar hunter, those dogs would be worth checking out.
Don't get me wrong, there is a fun component to trialing too, but there is a practical side to it from a breeding perspective and if you are looking for a pup.
I can see this perspective, but think that in reality it doesn't happen all that often, at least not in our neck of the woods. All I've seen from trial outfits are versatiles that have been bred/trained to be specialist (think shorthairs that won't swim, EP's that are afraid to jump a small creek for a bird, etc.) which really has an extremely limited use in the PNW.
Another issue at hand is the competitive vs. comparative styles of testing/training. With the AKC, NASTRA, etc. style there is too much variation, personal opinion/prejudice involved for my liking. (though we may run my shorty in some trails next year, I would nevermake a breeding decision based on trial intel/opinion.)
I guess all this boils down to a couple of us on here wanting very different things than the majority. You'll never find Addicted or I verbally jacking each other off at a test of training day, we're there to build good dogs and stone as many birds a season as possible, period.
Post by: jetjockey on June 19, 2016, 03:53:20 PM