WDFW where are you?

[Happy Gilmore]

For anyone who may be interested in helping add positive input to help protect our public resources and land available to all dog trainers we have a group of people planning on attending the upcoming commissioners meeting to present testimony regarding our history and need for open spaces. Our support is currently comprised of pointer groups, retriever folks and other dog fanciers. If you would like to help us improve Washington properties contact me. If you prefer to write about what we don't have compared to other states you live in just find somewhere else to live and comment how good it it is to be there. Thanks to the folks who care to help. There are alot of you helping I know which prefer not to comment on website...and those who pick up a weed wacker and a mower to put hands on the ground where you live and train your dogs because you love the sport and don't care if your neighborhood isn't the best bird producing area in the world please continue supporting us who are working hard to make it better.

The OP's post wasn't about trying to find training grounds.  The OP's post is about field trial grounds. I think it's great you guys have a grass root group trying to improve training opportunities in WA state.  What WA doesn't have is the big money and big names really backing the cause.  Let me give you an example.  Ted Turner has shooting dogs that he trials (bet you didn't know that).  Several years ago he bought the 9000 acre Naomi plantation in Georgia strictly for wild bird hunting and wild bird trials.  He also has a 42000 acre ranch in Kansas where they are doing the same thing.  I'm sure some day, when he's gone, that land will likely be turned over to the states, or set up in a trust for groups to run to manage for field trials and wild birds.  In WAS, we simply don't have that kind of support.  Why?  Because we don't have the history and the culture of bird dogs that they have in other parts of the country.  Sorry that makes you butt hurt, but that is the truth, and that's why not only does WA not have good trial grounds, you guys are struggling to even get good training grounds.  Its ashame too, because WA has the land and the birds to support a truely world class field trial grounds.  If you really want to help, continue doing what your doing, and then get as many kids as you can into bird dogs and upland hunting.   If you truely want support for your cause, that's where the support will come from.

I assume "field trials" is being used in the pointer field trials sense only?

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Yes, he doesn't know about Pin Oaks/ Peppers Pond in AR or Cooper Black which are also State owned and supported and often maintained and sometimes built by dog clubs. Or probably August Busch's grounds?? (Budweiser sponsored) I don't know about places anywhere except here in Washington State that have a little group of people trying to mow ground. Nor have I been to a couple hundred private acres near Palm Springs built for retrievers and I didn't go there for Christmas or, head to Montana and spend any time on 5 different private properties built for dogs just a week ago while I was judging..  .. I don't travel at all...lol to Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, California or Alaska and Montana and Wyoming and Utah and Kansas or North Dakota and Nebraska already this year...  or South Dakota and going to Iowa at the end of the month to pick up my dog truck.. hahahaa

[jetjockey]

No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will.  This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it.  This thread is about pointing dogs.  You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will.  I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice.  You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me.  When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read.  When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't.  Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail.  I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either.  I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds..  Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest.  Those are all completly wild bird trials.  Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one.  You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials.  Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is.  You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs.  I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers.  You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs.  The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds.   They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about.   Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain.  You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.

[jetjockey]

I assume "field trials" is being used in the pointer field trials sense only?

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[/quote]

Yes, because that's what the OP was referring to.  In case Happy missed it, here's the article.   It's too bad Happy has never lived anywhere else to experience how different states support bird dogs.

.....................


2016 marks 100 years of dog field trials in Gladwin
Michigan DNR sent this bulletin at 06/08/2016 10:00 AM EDT
dnr logo   
Statewide DNR News
June 8, 2016

Contact: Bruce Barlow, 989-426-9205, ext. 7631

2016 marks 100 years of dog field trials in Gladwin
Gladwin Field Trial Area dog handlerThe Gladwin Field Trial Area will celebrate its 100th anniversary Saturday, June 18. The Department of Natural Resources invites the public to come and enjoy a celebration of a century-old Michigan tradition with an 11 a.m. ceremony at Alibi Hall at the Gladwin Field Trial Area in Meredith, Michigan.

“We are excited to celebrate this special place with its long-standing history, traditions and habitat management for ruffed grouse and American woodcock,” said DNR wildlife biologist Bruce Barlow.  “The Gladwin Field Trial Area is the best field-trialing venue in the nation.”

Located in the northwest corner of Gladwin County on more than 4,900 acres, the Gladwin Field Trial Area brings people from all over the country for premier dog field trials, which are competitions for hunting dogs to test their levels of skill and training in locating and pointing. Trials are held in the early spring and again in the late summer and early fall, avoiding the quiet period when birds are nesting. The uniqueness of these field trials comes from the dogs working wild native birds, ruffed grouse and woodcock. Birds are not placed in the Gladwin Field Trial Area. With an intense timber management program, this area – which includes 14 different field trial courses – can hold birds with its young forest habitat.

“Many folks and their families, some through multiple generations, have numerous and cherished memories out here,” said Barlow. “It’s going to be a wonderful afternoon having everyone out to Alibi Hall, which itself is a great piece of field trial history.”

For more information about the anniversary celebration, call 989-426-9205, ext. 7631.

[Happy Gilmore]

you so funny when you get all worked up.......  it's almost a pleasure to keep replying because you just can't stop yourself from repeating the same thing you said about 10 times in this thread already..

[Happy Gilmore]

speaking of google.. you ever used it? You should look on it. There are hundreds if not thousands of unbroken 20,000 acre+ areas that you could use if you know people. My buddy's ranch in Lamont has about 4-5 different ponds, miles upon miles of wheat, CRP and some irrigated crop. Same with another friends place in Marlin.

I guess if you can't find a way to train a dog on those grounds maybe you too should just use a rubber chicken scent and a plywood dog to get your point..

[jetjockey]

you so funny when you get all worked up.......  it's almost a pleasure to keep replying because you just can't stop yourself from repeating the same thing you said about 10 times in this thread already..

It's fun to make you look stupid when it comes to pointing dogs.  But keep it up!   Then again Paul, your reputation precedes you!

[jetjockey]

speaking of google.. you ever used it? You should look on it. There are hundreds if not thousands of unbroken 20,000 acre+ areas that you could use if you know people. My buddy's ranch in Lamont has about 4-5 different ponds, miles upon miles of wheat, CRP and some irrigated crop. Same with another friends place in Marlin.

I guess if you can't find a way to train a dog on those grounds maybe you too should just use a rubber chicken scent and a plywood dog to get your point..

I guess you forgot the original point of this thread being land supported by the state!

I have 75 sq miles in SD, and probably 25 miles in NE, that I can train on anytime I want.  I've got one of my pups in TX on a ranch that's 25-30sq miles, and loaded with quail, that I can use as well.   Plus, I can train on scaleys on all the state land I could ever want within a 1.5hr drive of my house.    That's what I'm loving about living in CO!  Most of the best hunting in this country is within an easy 8hr drive. 

[Happy Gilmore]

  This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it.  This thread is about pointing dogs.  You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will. 


I might not be an expert on deciphering wild quail from pen raised quail running free on Ames Ranch but, I've been around a good lot of pointing breeds (some pretty decent ones but, I don't think they went to Ames so, I'm sure they aren't as good as anything you've ever seen or done) while living at a kennel that mainly trained pointing dogs for 8 years. And, I've been to more than one horse back trial. I've only planted birds at one horseback trial my friend.

 You know alot about places far from here which have no relevance to really anyone local here in Washington. It seems like it would make more sense that you chatted up the antiquities of Ames Plantation and the history of the prestigious American Field venue on a site with other like minded enthusiasts.

[Happy Gilmore]

Believe it or not, there are guys who read this page who have been to Ames and trained dogs throughout the midwest. They don't comment on your comments if you haven't noticed.

[jetjockey]

You are a piece of work aren't you.   The OP's original thread is about WHY WA STATE doesn't have public grounds to train and run trials on like other states.  That was the point!  That's always been the point!  I'm still not sure what your trying to argue, all your proving every thread is how clueless you are about the pointing dog world.  The original question is WHY WA state doesn't support the same types of grounds that other states do.  Do you have an answer for that or are you just going to continue spewing nonsense?

In case you missed it, here's a refresher!  Do you care to respond to the OP why the state doesn't support high quality trial grounds?

And don't call it Ames Ranch.  It makes you sound clueless.  It's called Ames Plantation..




WDFW where are you?
« on: June 08, 2016, 08:28:28 AM »
Quote
Got this in an e-mail today and it made me think of how little support the WDFW has for bird dog folks, let alone spaces like this, these days"

[Bluemoon]

I am one of the people who normally will stay out of this type of dialog just because its not worth it.  Yes, I don't quite have all my facts together but!  Ever hear of Goose Buttes? WA/DNR land there are 8 Brittany trails held there each year. If your dog can't handle Quail of pheasants your toast.  Sulpher Creek Ranch (private) has 3 one hour continuances AF courses once you leave camp your out for half the day. Once again if your dog can't handle Wild Huns, Ouail, Chukar or Pheasants your toast.  And history wise I think running the AF Pacific Coast Derby Championship for 115 plus times here on the west coast counts as history.
East Seattle Pointer club started out as AF running at Scatter Creek (WA ST owned) in 1952 once again it was a native hun meca.  Little history there. 
In Oregon now AFTCA trials are running in places such as Tye Valley and Condon.  Crawling with wild birds and yes just like back east they all supplement there trials and grounds with planted birds.
OK these are just a few that come to mind if I had to I could come up with more But I won't nor will I comment any more on this.
My final words are this.  Please be careful on who you are calling stupid when you don't know them.  Mr. Happy has brought more people into the dog world of trials and test then anyone I know without ever asking for anything because he is passionate about what he enjoys.  When is the last time any of us have done the same?
I am proud to call him a friend.. 

[AspenBud]

Happy.  Spout off at the mouth all you want, what I said is 100% true.  Believe it or not, I lived in Ellensburg too and also met many of the farmers there.  What you don't seem to understand is that in most of the states throughout the Midwest and Southeast, there are plenty of PUBLIC trial grounds supported by the states.  We simply don't have that in WA, nore in Oregon or many of the other Western states.  Why?  Because there's not enough people who will push for it and fight for it.  The field trial culture that exists in other state simply doesn't exist in WA.  The culture that does exist places almost ZERO importance on wild bird trials.  That is a fact!  Until you meet a hard core pointer guy from the South, or a cover dog guy from the upper Midwest, you will never understand......What you don't seem to understand is there are many places in the South and Miswest that are state lands and the run some amazing wild bird trials on those lands.  DiLane Plantation in GA is not ultra exclusive.  It's public land that anyone can hunt and is managed specifically for wild quail, hunting, and trials.    Unless the state of WA can get voters to fork over tens of millions of dollars of their tax money so the state an buy 6000-8000 acres in WA's prime quail and pheasant country, and then fork over the 100,000's of thousands of dollars every year to maintain it, WA will never have that.  Sorry you don't like the truth, but that is the truth.  It will never happen in WA state.

Never gonna happen, too busy here worrying about bicycle lanes....

...and elk...

[AspenBud]

My point with the original post is that state agencies here don't seem to value bird dog owners and events as much as others in the country do. If anything they seem to be clamping down on it these days.

Someone mentioned Scatter Creek, that's a great example since you can no longer ride a horse there as I understand it. That effectively pushes a lot of pointing dog trials out.

Then there is the matter of how they have been screwing around with training grounds. Happy has been fighting that fight for a while now.

It's fine and well to use private grounds, but when the state (our DNR and WDFW) doesn't seem to take a whole lot of pride in what it does for the bird dog community, and in some cases seems to view it as a pain, it would seem to be only a matter of time before sweeping restrictions that affect everything from public property to private will be supported by them. I hope I'm just being overly paranoid there but given political trends...

[jetjockey]

My point with the original post is that state agencies here don't seem to value bird dog owners and events as much as others in the country do. If anything they seem to be clamping down on it these days.

Someone mentioned Scatter Creek, that's a great example since you can no longer ride a horse there as I understand it. That effectively pushes a lot of pointing dog trials out.

Then there is the matter of how they have been screwing around with training grounds. Happy has been fighting that fight for a while now.

It's fine and well to use private grounds, but when the state (our DNR and WDFW) doesn't seem to take a whole lot of pride in what it does for the bird dog community, and in some cases seems to view it as a pain, it would seem to be only a matter of time before sweeping restrictions that affect everything from public property to private will be supported by them. I hope I'm just being overly paranoid there but given political trends...

Aspen, you've been around and you've seen it.  These other guys haven't.  Why WA doesn't support trials and bird dogs is simple, there just isn't the history (contrary to what was stated above) and the numbers to support the pointing dog world like there is in other parts of the country.   

Btw.  If a dog can't handle quail or pheasants the dog shouldn't be trialing, or even hunted over.

[Special T]

JJ I think history is the wrong word to convey your message. There no longer is a strong hunting culture like many other states. Most school distrits in Arkansas close for the opener of rifle deer season...

In many other places it is the pride or accepted culture for sport hunting events. Wa state west side is too "cultured" for such low brow activies... This is the general feeling I get from the wdfw perhaps in reaction to the pierce king snohomish county population.