WDFW where are you?

[jetjockey]

But it is history.  History and culture.   I agree that WA doesn't have the hunting culture many states have, it's never had the history or culture of field trials like that have in many other states, especially the South.  The South sucks, but around every corner is someone who's father trials, or who's grandfather trialed, and most likely they know someone who's trialed.  As a kid your just as likely to get an old American Double for your first quail gun as your are a fancy new 870.  Waynsboro GA claims to be the bird dog capital of the world, the car dealership is called bird dog motors, and in the fall they have the bird dog breakaway which is a cheritable run at the beginning of the trial season.  It's no coincidence the bird dog hall of fame is in Tennessee just down the road from Ames Plantation.  If you ever get a chance to go, you should because it's pretty cool....  Unfortunately the PNW doesn't have that.  Anyone who says it does is just lying to themselves.  I lived in GA for 9 long years, and I lived in WA for 31 prior to that.  I've been to Ames, DiLane, the Cattle Grounds, J Lester, Waynsboro, and even the Bird Dig Hall of fame.  I've stayed in the towns and drank beer with the locals....  I grew up hunting Eastern WA as a kid when we still had decent pheasant hunting.   I've seen both sides, and unfortunately, WA is nothing like the South, and most of the Midwestern states when it comes to the history and culture of bird dogs, trialing, hunting, and training.   I'm not bashing WA, it's just the truth.   That's why WA state doesn't support it, when other states do.  Heck, your lucky to find a club house on the grounds in the PNW. In the Midwest and Southern states the grounds will have clubhouses with full kitchens, bathrooms, possibly showers, and the walls will be littered with pictures of past champions and trials.  We don't have things like that on the grounds in the WA.

[Happy Gilmore]

One of my Chessie pups is the kingpin dog for the owner of a multi-state car dealer down there- he's a private guy so I wont share his name. Have an invite to go hunt over my pup this year. His place has 200 acres of flooded corn plus upland bird areas. Was used to film a handful of waterfowl hunting shows in the last couple years. Going to try hard to make it. My buddy just closed on a house today in his hometown in Georgia not too far away. Will be moving from Duvall back home soon. Huge HRC and field trial groups in that area. Probably the most in the US. Lots of trials and lots of hunt tests. And gators and snakes in the summer weather everything shuts down...not my cup of tea. Certainly will be finding a business trip to the Rocky Boy Reservation this year too- have an engineer to visit about their waste water pond upgrades... same with Fort Pierre, SD... they need some help. Last time I went there I was a little humbled by how a dumb little retriever can find a limit within 1/4 mile of the road while all the big ranging dogs headed south a mile or two....  And of course, Sidney, MT... Phesa.. I mean fall meetings are of upmost importance. Until then, Cowlitz river, Westport tuna and Soldotna Kings will fill my time between training my dogs and trialing.

[addicted2hunting]

No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will.  This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it.  This thread is about pointing dogs.  You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will.  I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice.  You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me.  When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read.  When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't.  Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail.  I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either.  I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds..  Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest.  Those are all completly wild bird trials.  Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one.  You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials.  Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is.  You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs.  I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers.  You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs.  The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds.   They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about.   Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain.  You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.

Ran or watched meaning mostly watched... And don't train your own dogs.... Anyone with a wallet can do that...

[addicted2hunting]

Plus I'd rather hunt chukar over quail anyday... There are no chukar over there so it's useless to me... Quail ain't worth the cost of the ammo to shoot them...

[wildweeds]

Horses for courses I guess, I've got no use for Chukar myself but love hunting and shooting valley quail. I'm lazy so I'd rather do a flat walk with alot more bird encounters in a shorter period of time. The quail can present far more difficult shooting scenarios. And yup I've shot Chukar while standing on steep scree. Makes no difference they are both delicious. Actually my new big kick is sharptails in eastern montana. Great for the dogs.

[constructeur]

Plus I'd rather hunt chukar over quail anyday... There are no chukar over there so it's useless to me... Quail ain't worth the cost of the ammo to shoot them...

I nominate myself to shoot all Quail pointed by your fine beast this season 

Wildweeds- You missed the point; Jockey runs 3/4 sized dogs trained by someone else and is the kind of guy that farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles.

[wildweeds]

[I actually didnt miss the point, I actually own a 14 year old dog who was so impressive in ability that 2 american field professional handlers of multi champions in the south told me was the best quail single dog they ever saw. Neither trained/ bred/ or had anything to do with other than watching the dog do his work. Jet rags on the dog because of his write up at the gundog championship. The dog was one of two that found and pinned a wild covey of quail in a 100 plus dog stake, the rest blew up and out who encountered them. Trialing is no longer a sport that promotes the best dog, it is a look at ME, I OWN the dog sport. One guy is dead, the other is 75 years old, both have/had serious accolades. Yeah I got the dog started,killed a bunch of birds over him, and then became the thick wallet guy, I couldnt hit the road and show him but I could pay for it. You know the dog is good when everytime the trainer/handler runs across a judge who threw the dog out of contention for a hop on the only wild bird find in a weeks worth of trialing on grounds that caused the handlers horse to freak out,the judges horse to freak out and buck because of a wild flush of a pair of pointed wild birds..... the judge apologizes for his decision. Red rocks nevada,ran the farthest,biggest and searched the most of any dog the entire week, find was at the skyline 3/4 mile from the horse track.quote author=constructeur link=topic=196600.msg2612000#msg2612000 date=1465622895]

Plus I'd rather hunt chukar over quail anyday... There are no chukar over there so it's useless to me... Quail ain't worth the cost of the ammo to shoot them...

I nominate myself to shoot all Quail pointed by your fine beast this season 

Wildweeds- You missed the point; Jockey runs 3/4 sized dogs trained by someone else and is the kind of guy that farts in the bathtub and bites the bubbles.
[/quote]

[jetjockey]

No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will.  This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it.  This thread is about pointing dogs.  You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will.  I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice.  You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me.  When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read.  When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't.  Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail.  I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either.  I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds..  Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest.  Those are all completly wild bird trials.  Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one.  You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials.  Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is.  You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs.  I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers.  You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs.  The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds.   They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about.   Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain.  You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.

Ran or watched meaning mostly watched... And don't train your own dogs.... Anyone with a wallet can do that...

Actually, I rarely get to watch my dog run.  When I make it to trials, I'm usually running my dogs.  I, like many people in the pointing dog world, start my dogs and then send them off to a Pro to be finished.  Why?  Because I don't have the time, the land, And especially the birds, to do it myself.  I can't take off an entire summer to go to SD to train my dog on wild birds at summer camp, so I pay someone to do it.  And I'll never appoligize for that because it makes a superior hunting and trialing dog.    Besides that, a Pro can do it better.  That's why they are Pros, and Im allowed to run in Amateur stakes.  None of that changes the fact that I'm spot on in my posts however. 

Wild, the only reason I bust your balls is because you blast the Brittany guys for closed trials, and seem to think there's a "Brittany palooza" somewhere in Texas that the Brit guys use to stockpile points.  I've asked you about it after you mentioned it and never got any response from you.  I can assure you, this "Brittany palooza" you think exists, doesn't.  Besides, in the Brittany world the only points that matter are points from Brittany trials, so there's no point in this "Brittany palooza" you have talked about.  That's why Brit Pros rarely spend the time to go to the AKC Nationals when they could be getting points for the Purina Dog of the year award or the Garmin Dog of the year award.  Those are the only points that matter in the Brittany world.  I busted your balls because you bashed Brits, yet if I remember correctly, your dog lost to its brace mate, which was a Brit, at the All Breed AKC Nationals.  That's the only reason Uve busted your tail about your dog.  I'm sure he was a very, very nice dog.  But there's lots of nice dogs out there, and even the best leave us scratching our heads at times.

[AspenBud]

Only reason I pay attention to Southern trials is that's predominantly where good (English) Pointers, of note, are born and bred. After that is the upper Midwest and given a choice I like the ones from the Midwest, particularly cover dog lines, mainly because they are intended for more close quarters work but still have an engine on them.

But at the end of it most Pointers have some Southern dog in them so...I pay attention to Southern trials.

If my breed, and lines, of choice were different I would probably see things differently.

[addicted2hunting]

No, you've trained more flushing and retrieving dogs than I ever will.  This thread isnt about flushing or retrieving dogs is it.  This thread is about pointing dogs.  You haven't trained or ran more pointing dogs than I ever will.  I've run, or watched, trial dogs run in 11 different states, on 16 different trial grounds, including Ames Plantation, and running my dog at Nationals twice.  You have admited you've been to one pointing dog field trial in your entire life. And you also had never even heard of American Field or Ames Plantation before me.  When you talk about Ames, you repeat what you've read.  When I talk about Ames, I talk about it from the standpoint of someone who's s course from the back of a horse, and knows what it is and what it isn't.  Without google, you couldn't find Ames on a map, let alone tell the difference between a covey of wild quail and a pre-relased quail.  I never said all those places are all wild bird trials either.  I said they HAVE wild birds, some have more than others, many trials being completly wild bird trials, and some having more released birds than wild birds..  Take the Continental for instance, and all the sharptail and chicken championships held in the Midwest.  Those are all completly wild bird trials.  Of course you wouldn't know that because you've never been to one.  You've also never been to one of the cover dog trials in the upper Midwest which are 100% wild bird trials.  Without Google, you wouldn't even know what a cover dog trial is.  You don't know squat about pointing dogs, and I don't know squat about flushing/retrieving dogs.  I assure you, knowing about pointing dogs does not mean I know about retrievers.  You should realize that knowing retrievers doesn't mean you know anything about pointing dogs.  The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

All those things your boasting about Happy are retrieving dog grounds.   They ARE NOT pointing dog grounds, which is what the original post is about.   Pointing dog grounds take up a lot more land and require a lot more money to maintain.  You can train a receiver anywhere with a dummy. Good luck doing that with a pointing dog that ranges 500-1000 yards off a horse.

Ran or watched meaning mostly watched... And don't train your own dogs.... Anyone with a wallet can do that...

Actually, I rarely get to watch my dog run.  When I make it to trials, I'm usually running my dogs.  I, like many people in the pointing dog world, start my dogs and then send them off to a Pro to be finished.  Why?  Because I don't have the time, the land, And especially the birds, to do it myself.  I can't take off an entire summer to go to SD to train my dog on wild birds at summer camp, so I pay someone to do it.  And I'll never appoligize for that because it makes a superior hunting and trialing dog.    Besides that, a Pro can do it better.  That's why they are Pros, and Im allowed to run in Amateur stakes.  None of that changes the fact that I'm spot on in my posts however. 

Wild, the only reason I bust your balls is because you blast the Brittany guys for closed trials, and seem to think there's a "Brittany palooza" somewhere in Texas that the Brit guys use to stockpile points.  I've asked you about it after you mentioned it and never got any response from you.  I can assure you, this "Brittany palooza" you think exists, doesn't.  Besides, in the Brittany world the only points that matter are points from Brittany trials, so there's no point in this "Brittany palooza" you have talked about.  That's why Brit Pros rarely spend the time to go to the AKC Nationals when they could be getting points for the Purina Dog of the year award or the Garmin Dog of the year award.  Those are the only points that matter in the Brittany world.  I busted your balls because you bashed Brits, yet if I remember correctly, your dog lost to its brace mate, which was a Brit, at the All Breed AKC Nationals.  That's the only reason Uve busted your tail about your dog.  I'm sure he was a very, very nice dog.  But there's lots of nice dogs out there, and even the best leave us scratching our heads at times.

Exactly so do pretend like your an expert if you don't have the time to be one... Now if you trained and handled your own dog than I say hats off to you... And you can still have your am status if you train your own dog... Plus much more rewarding... And how you don't have the time or the resources!?? Then that shows your priorities are not with the dogs...

[constructeur]

Just another nouveau riche dude that throws $$$ at it and expects us to be excited when he makes the podium at his little doggy comp. Know why when he makes a post only 3-4 people (one of which is always Aspenbud) reply? It's because this is a boot hunter/ meat dog/ local forum, and no one really gives a crap about a poseur from out of town.

[jetjockey]

Well, I have kids and a family, so your right, I don't spend all my time with bird dogs.  They are my hobby, not my career.  Besides, there's a reason very few amatures can compete against the Pros.  Those who do, often have their dogs broke by Pros.  That's perfectly normal in the pointing dog world.  Then again, you don't see many amateur trained horses at the Kentucky Derby either.   There's plenty of amateurs out there who compete with their dogs in AM and Open stakes who have their dogs trained by a Pro, because they don't have the time or resources.  Many of them are judges who have judged dogs at the highest level as well.  You don't seem to understand that in order compete at the highest level, it takes a lot of time and resources, not to mention Championships rarely run on weekends, so the only Amateurs you see running their dogs in Championships are typically retired, and you see very few of them.  So believe me, you trying to attack me and discredit me doesn't bother mes, because what I do is completly normal in the Pointing dog world.  FYI though, I have a pretty good track record when running my dogs.   I think I'm averaging about 35% placement rate with my AA dog, and that's mostly 1hr trials.  So I must be doing something right.

[jetjockey]

Just another nouveau riche dude that throws $$$ at it and expects us to be excited when he makes the podium at his little doggy comp. Know why when he makes a post only 3-4 people (one of which is always Aspenbud) reply? It's because this is a boot hunter/ meat dog/ local forum, and no one really gives a crap about a poseur from out of town.

What's I boot hunter, meat dog?

Btw.  I'm not from out of town, and last time I checked, this is a bird dog forum and unless I missed it, it doesn't specify between "boot hunting meat dogs", and trials/competition.  Besides, every gun dog forum I'm on guys talk about trialing as well as hunting.  But thanks for proving my point that trials just don't have the support it takes for the state to back trials and training grounds in WA.  If there were more trialers in WA, you'd see a lot more responses.

[addicted2hunting]

Well i know plenty of people that can train fully broke dogs with kids and family ect... Just depends on how passionate you are... 1 hr a day out of your schedule??? Come on! It doesn't mean anything if you just handled the dog... All the hard work has been done... And with the Washington aspect, most of us want to just kill stuff up here... Mostly waterfowl guys up here so why would you expect it to have a huge pointing dog trial scene?

[jetjockey]

Well i know plenty of people that can train fully broke dogs with kids and family ect... Just depends on how passionate you are... 1 hr a day out of your schedule??? Come on! It doesn't mean anything if you just handled the dog... All the hard work has been done... And with the Washington aspect, most of us want to just kill stuff up here... Mostly waterfowl guys up here so why would you expect it to have a huge pointing dog trial scene?

There's a lot more to training a trial dog than just breaking the dog.  Sure, I could go get a launcher and throw birds in the air and break a dog, but that dog isn't going to win any trials.  I give my dogs the chance to see if they will make trial dogs.   It takes thousands of acres, tons of wild birds, and LOTS of time to train and break a trial dog.  And I'm not talking just weekend trials, I'm talking about 1hr+ Championships that often have purses.  That's why the top trial Pros head to the praries during the summer to put their dogs on thousands of wild birds in wide open spaces.  You can't get that putting a dog on a barrel in your back yard for 15-20 minutes a day.....  Plus, those "trial" dogs turn out to be great hunting dogs as a byproduct of all the wild birds, so it makes sense to me to at least give them a chance, instead of just breaking them on pigeons in my back yard.  If your ever board, look at the top dogs in the country in points standings.  You will quickly see that dogs really hit their stride when they reach about 5 years of age.  It's no different than any Pro sport.  It takes time to develop a truely great dog, you can't do that in your back yard.