Post by: birddogdad on April 23, 2019, 08:19:40 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 23, 2019, 08:27:55 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 08:40:38 AM
Those goats got relocated.
They're not all moved yet, but they're all being moved.
There's another relocation project happening this summer.
Well new regs out and it looks as if that draw has been deleted. Wonder if WDFW is planning on moving them out of state too? :bash:
By the time hunting season comes around, there won't be many goats left in there. Not sure anyone would want to draw a tag where there are no goats.
:dunno:
Post by: northwesthunter84 on April 23, 2019, 08:42:25 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 08:48:01 AM
Anyone have an idea on the number of goats successfully relocated? Surprised there wasn't at least a couple extra tags in some of those areas due to bump in population. Are they going in and eliminating the ones that can't be relocated, at least that was my understanding?
The relocation is happening over a 3 year period if I'm not mistaken. At the end of that period, whatever goats are not relocated will be culled.
I don't believe any of the goats that were relocated were put into areas with current hunting seasons. All were moved to bolster diminishing herds in other areas of the state with the hope of more tags in new areas later on down the road. @Bushcraft could possibly confirm/clarify but I think I'm accurate.
Post by: hunterednate on April 23, 2019, 10:06:12 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
Yes, they were relocated. I received an email last August from WDFW asking for volunteers to assist in the transportation and relocation 80-100 goats from Olympic National Park to areas in the North Cascades (both inside and outside the park). I'm not sure if other locations have been considered as well, but as far as I know, the relocation happened and was successful.
Only partially done.
The email from Rich Harris came 4/12 looking for volunteers for this summer's relocation project.
Post by: Tbar on April 23, 2019, 02:03:48 PM
Post by: hunterednate on April 23, 2019, 02:55:47 PM
Yes, they were relocated. I received an email last August from WDFW asking for volunteers to assist in the transportation and relocation 80-100 goats from Olympic National Park to areas in the North Cascades (both inside and outside the park). I'm not sure if other locations have been considered as well, but as far as I know, the relocation happened and was successful.
Only partially done.
The email from Rich Harris came 4/12 looking for volunteers for this summer's relocation project.
Yep, you're right. I got that email right after I posted.
Post by: HikerHunter on April 23, 2019, 03:31:42 PM
This year will take goats from there, Hamma Hamma, and Mt. Ellinor.
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 09:34:42 PM
@northwesthunter84 There were 98 goats relocated to five sites in the North Cascades in September 2018. Goats were taken out of Hurricane Ridge.
This year will take goats from there, Hamma Hamma, and Mt. Ellinor.
Pretty sure some goats went to places outside of the north cascades also.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 24, 2019, 04:56:16 AM
Post by: weatherbow21 on April 24, 2019, 06:58:57 AM
Post by: HikerHunter on April 24, 2019, 08:08:51 AM
@northwesthunter84 There were 98 goats relocated to five sites in the North Cascades in September 2018. Goats were taken out of Hurricane Ridge.
This year will take goats from there, Hamma Hamma, and Mt. Ellinor.
Pretty sure some goats went to places outside of the north cascades also.
That may be the case. I was just reporting what was sent out in the info for requesting volunteers for this year's effort.
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 08:51:38 AM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
There has already been a next...and there were a lot of people concerned with it. Epic thread on here last year. However..the goats were moved to supplement other herds with the hope of hunting opportunity in the future, so it's not all for not.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/news/grand-teton-mountain-goats-to-be-removed-to-save-bighorn-sheep
"Grand Teton mountain goats to be removed to save bighorn sheep"
Post by: Stein on April 24, 2019, 08:54:29 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 09:34:15 AM
WDFW certainly has a bend towards changing this back to how we believe they were at some random, undefined, time in the past. The same thing is happening with fish. A big push is coming from the environmental groups and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to march on, if not increasing in speed.
I might be wrong, but I think the goat move was a National Park project with help from the WDFW.
Post by: Stein on April 24, 2019, 09:54:20 AM
WDFW certainly has a bend towards changing this back to how we believe they were at some random, undefined, time in the past. The same thing is happening with fish. A big push is coming from the environmental groups and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to march on, if not increasing in speed.
I might be wrong, but I think the goat move was a National Park project with help from the WDFW.
Yeah, I was commenting in general.
In this instance, WDFW willingly spent money doing something that resulted in permanently less hunting opportunity. Nobody forced them to act at all, or act in this manner when other options were available. It's the way the department acts, when given an opportunity or asked to do something, they rarely, if ever, seriously consider sportsmen.
Look at the other states, they are constantly suing to defend or improve hunting opportunities. They are fighting for the sportsmen. I don't see the same attitude with WDFW. I'm not really concerned with this happening in a bunch of other western states because their game agencies have a completely different attitude.
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 09:59:49 AM
WDFW certainly has a bend towards changing this back to how we believe they were at some random, undefined, time in the past. The same thing is happening with fish. A big push is coming from the environmental groups and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to march on, if not increasing in speed.
I might be wrong, but I think the goat move was a National Park project with help from the WDFW.
Yeah, I was commenting in general.
In this instance, WDFW willingly spent money doing something that resulted in permanently less hunting opportunity. Nobody forced them to act at all, or act in this manner when other options were available. It's the way the department acts, when given an opportunity or asked to do something, they rarely, if ever, seriously consider sportsmen.
Look at the other states, they are constantly suing to defend or improve hunting opportunities. They are fighting for the sportsmen. I don't see the same attitude with WDFW. I'm not really concerned with this happening in a bunch of other western states because their game agencies have a completely different attitude.
I'm definitely not trying to argue when I say this, because I don't fully agree with the decision to move the goats...but it's been said multiple times...the goats were moved to supplement other herds where there are currently no hunting opportunitites with hopes that some increased hunting opportunities arise in the future.
@Bushcraft can possibly/hopefully clarify with some more legit info in this regard. The Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance is also heavily involved in this project.
https://goatalliance.org/blogs/news/olympic-national-park-goat-removal-to-begin-september-2018
Quote
Olympic National Park Goat Removal to Begin September 2018.
Jun 30, 2018 · Lyle Hebel
The largest mountain goat relocation project in American history is set to begin this September in Olympic National Park. The National Park Service (NPS) has decided to completely eradicate the species from the landscape over the next three years.
Mountain goats were introduced to the Olympic Mountains in the late 1920’s and the park service arrived in 1938. In what the park is calling an attempt to preserve native alpine plants, all of Olympic Nation Park’s (ONP) mountain goats will either be live-captured or lethally-removed over the next several years.
This fall’s initial capture will be a trial run to the massive endeavors to come in 2019 and 2020. The park estimates their goat population around 650 animals. The goal is to live-capture as many animals as possible and to gift them to the state of Washington.
The live-captured animals will be used to augment and revitalize native goat habitat in Washington’s north Cascades. A live capture of this many mountain goats has never been attempted. Several agencies and organizations are working together to execute this unprecedented project.
RMGA conservation dollars have been allocated to the purchasing of several collars to be used by Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife to track and study the relocated animals. The restoration of Washington’s native goat habitat is a conservation success the RMGA is proud to be part of.
After the live-capture phase is deemed complete, the remaining mountain goats will be lethally removed. The current proposal is for the first wave of lethal removal to be executed by vetted backcountry volunteers. Hired government marksmen will carry out the final phase of mountain goat removal. Stay tuned for more ONP mountain goat removal project updates.
Post by: X-Force on April 24, 2019, 10:03:13 AM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
One thing to remember about the ONP relocation and removal is that if the relocation happened park to park ONP to Rainier or ONP to NCNP there would have been zero public input and the park service would have completed the relocation and extirpation without WDFW or NFS. As it is the habitat in the NCNP is not conducive to goats so public input was required for this multiple entity venture.
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 10:09:26 AM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
One thing to remember about the ONP relocation and removal is that if the relocation happened park to park ONP to Rainier or ONP to NCNP there would have been zero public input and the park service would have completed the relocation and extirpation without WDFW or NFS. As it is the habitat in the NCNP is not conducive to goats so public input was required for this multiple entity venture.
Was just about to come back to this. WDFW spent money and got more goats on land that can be hunted in the future. The park service could have called in some sharpshooters from the dept of ag to shoot goats and eliminate them all or move them to MRNP where they couldn't be hunted, but instead we got some for, hopefully, additional hunter opportunity in the future.
Post by: Stein on April 24, 2019, 11:22:45 AM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
One thing to remember about the ONP relocation and removal is that if the relocation happened park to park ONP to Rainier or ONP to NCNP there would have been zero public input and the park service would have completed the relocation and extirpation without WDFW or NFS. As it is the habitat in the NCNP is not conducive to goats so public input was required for this multiple entity venture.
Was just about to come back to this. WDFW spent money and got more goats on land that can be hunted in the future. The park service could have called in some sharpshooters from the dept of ag to shoot goats and eliminate them all or move them to MRNP where they couldn't be hunted, but instead we got some for, hopefully, additional hunter opportunity in the future.
That's a good point, when viewed that way I take back my jab at WDFW, but just for this one instance. :chuckle:
Post by: Shaqdiesel on April 24, 2019, 11:39:05 AM
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 12:57:52 PM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
One thing to remember about the ONP relocation and removal is that if the relocation happened park to park ONP to Rainier or ONP to NCNP there would have been zero public input and the park service would have completed the relocation and extirpation without WDFW or NFS. As it is the habitat in the NCNP is not conducive to goats so public input was required for this multiple entity venture.
Why is the habitat in NCNP not suitable for goats?
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 12:59:11 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
I was wondering the same thing, prepare to be disappointed
Post by: Katmai Guy on April 24, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
Its not that the habitat is not suitable, it's that the goats are eating some endangered flower that only grows in the park and destroying the landscape digging for minerals I guess.It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
One thing to remember about the ONP relocation and removal is that if the relocation happened park to park ONP to Rainier or ONP to NCNP there would have been zero public input and the park service would have completed the relocation and extirpation without WDFW or NFS. As it is the habitat in the NCNP is not conducive to goats so public input was required for this multiple entity venture.
Why is the habitat in NCNP not suitable for goats?
Its not that the habitat is not suitable, it's that the goats are eating some endangered flower that only grows in the park and destroying the landscape digging for minerals I guess.
Post by: Stein on April 24, 2019, 01:02:32 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
I was wondering the same thing, prepare to be disappointed
Thanks for your business. :chuckle:
I think I have points as well, I don't remember applying but think I used to buy everything they had available.
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 01:17:17 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
It was a herd reduction hunt. Pretty much a cull hunt. Once the herd is culled...you don't need points anymore
:dunno:
Post by: Tbar on April 24, 2019, 01:47:05 PM
There is a possibility that there will be an opportunity post move but that's all undecided. It's an option on the table though.So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
It was a herd reduction hunt. Pretty much a cull hunt. Once the herd is culled...you don't need points anymore
:dunno:
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 02:28:08 PM
Its not that the habitat is not suitable, it's that the goats are eating some endangered flower that only grows in the park and destroying the landscape digging for minerals I guess.It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
One thing to remember about the ONP relocation and removal is that if the relocation happened park to park ONP to Rainier or ONP to NCNP there would have been zero public input and the park service would have completed the relocation and extirpation without WDFW or NFS. As it is the habitat in the NCNP is not conducive to goats so public input was required for this multiple entity venture.
Why is the habitat in NCNP not suitable for goats?
Its not that the habitat is not suitable, it's that the goats are eating some endangered flower that only grows in the park and destroying the landscape digging for minerals I guess.
That’s for ONP I believe. Goats are Native in the North Cascades. Just wondering what the thoughts are about NCNP not being suitable.
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 02:32:01 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
I was wondering the same thing, prepare to be disappointed
Thanks for your business. :chuckle:
I think I have points as well, I don't remember applying but think I used to buy everything they had available.
Exactly, pretty much like all my bull elk points in the near future.
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 02:37:31 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
It was a herd reduction hunt. Pretty much a cull hunt. Once the herd is culled...you don't need points anymore
:dunno:
Yet it still counted towards your once in a lifetime goat. What a joke
Post by: weatherbow21 on April 24, 2019, 02:43:18 PM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
What about all the goats outside the park? This thread is about the conflict goat hunt on Mt Washington
I hope you are right, and my fears are not valid
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 02:51:40 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
It was a herd reduction hunt. Pretty much a cull hunt. Once the herd is culled...you don't need points anymore
:dunno:
Yet it still counted towards your once in a lifetime goat. What a joke
Only if you kill one, which is different from the regular goat hunts.
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
It surprises me more people aren't concerned about the precedence this sets, removing animals because they are non native. There are a lot of huntable populations that are introduced, the entire state of Colorado for example for goats. Why won't they be next? I live at the base of the olympics, its goat country 100%. I cannot imagine we won't be seeing more of this in the future and its sad because as hunters we are losing opportunities left and right, here's another one lost forever
The National Park Service is trying to return park land to native plants and animals across the US. Eliminating or removing goats outside of the ONP is necessary to keep those populations from repopulating the park.
The Olympics may be goat country but there is no evidence that they ever existed there until the early 1900's when they were introduced.
I don't know of a national park in the lower 48 that allows nonnative hunting so your fears are not valid.
What about all the goats outside the park? This thread is about the conflict goat hunt on Mt Washington
I hope you are right, and my fears are not valid
They're all introduced/non-native goats. In or out of the park. And those goats are all considered too close to the park to be left there as they'll eventually spread back into the park. And this is the creation of new hunting opportunities in the future, not the loss of an opportunity. The conflict hunt was a cull hunt from the get-go. A "conflict reduction" hunt.
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 03:04:19 PM
So what’s gonna happen to my points now? :dunno:
It was a herd reduction hunt. Pretty much a cull hunt. Once the herd is culled...you don't need points anymore
:dunno:
Yet it still counted towards your once in a lifetime goat. What a joke
Only if you kill one, which is different from the regular goat hunts.
Pretty sure that’s incorrect jackelope
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 03:14:46 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 24, 2019, 03:40:01 PM
Post by: X-Force on April 24, 2019, 03:40:20 PM
Post by: X-Force on April 24, 2019, 03:42:03 PM
After the translocation, I'm wondering why they can't have an over-the-counter goat hunt or at least a lot more tags if they are going to cull them anyway?
The question I have is if I harvest one this spring will I get cited for harvesting a trophy species or will they let me keep it because its basically a rat or pigeon... :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 04:07:10 PM
Who may apply: Anyone, except those who have Previously harvested a mountain goat in Washington state after 1998. Same stipulation for both categories. I see absolutely no reason for two separate categories other than revenue.
Yep...my bad...I was wrong, but I probably didn't make clear what I was trying to say either.
At one point, you could draw a conflict tag, not kill a goat and apply again for regular goat permits as long as you didn't kill a goat. If you did kill one, you were done all together. Looks like they changed that.
You could never apply for the conflict permits if you've already killed a goat.
Unrelated side note...2018, the year after I killed my goat...I was able to apply for a conflict goat tag online....so I did...a few weeks later I got an email and a phone call from WDFW saying it was a mistake. They removed my application and refunded my money.
Post by: sagerat on April 24, 2019, 05:00:12 PM
After the translocation, I'm wondering why they can't have an over-the-counter goat hunt or at least a lot more tags if they are going to cull them anyway?
The question I have is if I harvest one this spring will I get cited for harvesting a trophy species or will they let me keep it because its basically a rat or pigeon... :chuckle:
I’m with this guy, we should help out 8)
Post by: Katmai Guy on April 30, 2019, 11:20:27 AM
The category split was absolutely ridiculous it was brought on by hunters who drew the first year Olympic permits became available. Those hunters complained that there weren't that many goats and that they were encouraged to shoot the first adult goat they saw. So being a cull they complained and wanted a separate category. WDFW obliged, more money and less confusion.
BS
Post by: Bushcraft on May 23, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
After that, I'm all for pumping the brakes very hard on any eradication efforts in the ONP. The data supporting the removal of the goats from ONP was extremely dated and specious at best (it was gathered by highly biased flower-worshipers).
The ONP is unquestionably the single best mountain goat incubator we have and has the best genetics in terms of the depth of their genetics. To just kill them all off is laughably stupid and is nothing more than moronically short-sighted cost-cutting bureaucratic horse*censored*. I will fight the eradication efforts tooth and nail even if I have to get every soccer mom and elementary school kid in the state up in arms about it. The ONP mountain goat population and the fauna they feed on can and should be managed for sustainability, and hunting can and should be used as the primary tool to effectively manage their population base.
Post by: Tbar on May 23, 2019, 01:01:51 PM
In my opinion we need to push forward with the translocation of as many goats as possible from ONP to the fractured populations within the greater Cascade complex. This should help improve the stagnant gene pools and will reduce the impact on fauna in the ONP.This plan and alternative is long past NEPA review, correct? Is there supporting evidence to contradict the past study? What does the archeological evidence support?
After that, I'm all for pumping the brakes very hard on any eradication efforts in the ONP. The data supporting the removal of the goats from ONP was extremely dated and specious at best (it was gathered by highly biased flower-worshipers).
The ONP is unquestionably the single best mountain goat incubator we have and has the best genetics in terms of the depth of their genetics. To just kill them all off is laughably stupid and is nothing more than moronically short-sighted cost-cutting bureaucratic horse*censored*. I will fight the eradication efforts tooth and nail even if I have to get every soccer mom and elementary school kid in the state up in arms about it. The ONP mountain goat population and the fauna they feed on can and should be managed for sustainability, and hunting can and should be used as the primary tool to effectively manage their population base.
Post by: Stein on May 23, 2019, 01:07:23 PM
Then, in a couple years they will either give up or you will lose in which case you start over and file another suit over something slightly different and start all over again. It's a proven tactic. Once you do this several times you don't even need to sue anymore, you just threaten.
Post by: Tbar on May 23, 2019, 01:19:17 PM
You don't need evidence for wildlife management, you just need a group that can afford to sue. File a big suit claiming they have faulty and insufficient evidence and demand they start all over again and conduct enormous impact studies, climate studies, archaelogical studies, native people studies, and whatever else you can think of. Go on the news, run stories about the state and feds slaughtering these animals while they are suffering the effects of climate change.There was more than one EIS, also an extended comment and review period. Wouldn't you think opposition and litigation would be more effective during scoping?
Then, in a couple years they will either give up or you will lose in which case you start over and file another suit over something slightly different and start all over again. It's a proven tactic. Once you do this several times you don't even need to sue anymore, you just threaten.
Post by: Stein on May 23, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
You don't need evidence for wildlife management, you just need a group that can afford to sue. File a big suit claiming they have faulty and insufficient evidence and demand they start all over again and conduct enormous impact studies, climate studies, archaelogical studies, native people studies, and whatever else you can think of. Go on the news, run stories about the state and feds slaughtering these animals while they are suffering the effects of climate change.There was more than one EIS, also an extended comment and review period. Wouldn't you think opposition and litigation would be more effective during scoping?
Then, in a couple years they will either give up or you will lose in which case you start over and file another suit over something slightly different and start all over again. It's a proven tactic. Once you do this several times you don't even need to sue anymore, you just threaten.
No, let it run it's course and then jump in at the last minute and try to start the clock all over again. You aren't trying to win, you are just trying to get the other side to give up or delay it until you get it in the right court, have the right governor and/or director.
Look at the grizzlies, there was an agreed upon management objective, tons of studies, and a comprehensive plan were everyone agreed we would give it back to the state when we hit it. We hit it, went well over it and then they sued saying, "yeah, we agreed about that but now think we should count them differently and reconsider the entire plan."
Post by: eskimo on June 14, 2019, 09:38:55 PM
In my opinion we need to push forward with the translocation of as many goats as possible from ONP to the fractured populations within the greater Cascade complex. This should help improve the stagnant gene pools and will reduce the impact on fauna in the ONP.
After that, I'm all for pumping the brakes very hard on any eradication efforts in the ONP. The data supporting the removal of the goats from ONP was extremely dated and specious at best (it was gathered by highly biased flower-worshipers).
The ONP is unquestionably the single best mountain goat incubator we have and has the best genetics in terms of the depth of their genetics. To just kill them all off is laughably stupid and is nothing more than moronically short-sighted cost-cutting bureaucratic horse*censored*. I will fight the eradication efforts tooth and nail even if I have to get every soccer mom and elementary school kid in the state up in arms about it. The ONP mountain goat population and the fauna they feed on can and should be managed for sustainability, and hunting can and should be used as the primary tool to effectively manage their population base. Good job Bushcraft
Post by: eskimo on June 14, 2019, 09:46:32 PM
In my opinion we need to push forward with the translocation of as many goats as possible from ONP to the fractured populations within the greater Cascade complex. This should help improve the stagnant gene pools and will reduce the impact on fauna in the ONP.Good job Bushcraft
After that, I'm all for pumping the brakes very hard on any eradication efforts in the ONP. The data supporting the removal of the goats from ONP was extremely dated and specious at best (it was gathered by highly biased flower-worshipers).
The ONP is unquestionably the single best mountain goat incubator we have and has the best genetics in terms of the depth of their genetics. To just kill them all off is laughably stupid and is nothing more than moronically short-sighted cost-cutting bureaucratic horse*censored*. I will fight the eradication efforts tooth and nail even if I have to get every soccer mom and elementary school kid in the state up in arms about it. The ONP mountain goat population and the fauna they feed on can and should be managed for sustainability, and hunting can and should be used as the primary tool to effectively manage their population base.