Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 02:55:45 PM
This incident occured on 12-3-2010 and there was myself and 2 other guys at the 1100 and 500 by the bridge Firday evening around 4:00 p.m. We all observed a new sign at the bottom there that stated the 1100 line was closed due to active logging and that sign was not covered with black plastic. This sign was placed there because I believe they had problems the prior week. While sitting there a white weyco security truck came off the 1100 and got out of his truck and flipped the sign and stated that it was okay for us to go ahead and drive in now.
I knew where I wanted to go and that was up to the 1108 and there should have been no other vehicles in there yet if they had followed the weyco rules and the signs that were at gates ect. So i got up there and looked across and seen some elk feeding at the end of the 1108. I knew that I need to hurry to get back there because we were running out of daylight. So I was on my way and I was going to get as close as I could and walk back in there. Well needless to say got back there a found this white Toyota pick up blocking the road which I do not agree with blocking roads and they should not have even been back there yet. So I drove around their truck and ran into 2 guys that were making a hunt on these elk. There were some words exchanged and they were upset that I drove around their truck and that their evening hunt just got ruined. I let them know that there were 3 of us waiting at the 1100 gate and weyco security just flipped the sign and allowed us to go up there now. They were not satisfied with my answer and they stated a dump truck driver told them they could go in after 2. The dump truck that was hauling was on the 500 line which was a private contractor. I stated to them that he has no authority to say when you can go in and hunt. It is the the weco security guy that goes through and takes care of all the signs. They still were not happy and they had told me to get out of my truck which I refused and that upset them even more. They stated that I was upset that someone beat me into a spot and I stated that was not the case. I was pissed because people do not follow weyco rules to the tree farm and sneak in there. At that point I was going to get out of there because they were getting heated up and the one guy nocked an arrow and drew his bow and aimed his bow at my head threw my front windshield.
I ducked and was able to get my truck in reverse and get the hell out of there before someone got seriously hurt. Once I was back to their truck and thought I would take pictures of it. I did call the Cowlitz County Sherriffs office and report the incident and I am still waiting a follow up on this.
I just thought I would share this with all of you here also. It just pissed me off even more when he drew his bow on me. That was crossing the line for me. We don't need these people out in the woods that block roads, don't obey weyco rules, and draw weapons on people. I don't have a problem with people walking into an area as long as they pull of to the side of the road so people can get through. I will turn around for people that are walking into an area but we had been dealing with people all week driving around where they were not suppose to. It was good to know there were a few good people waiting at the gate and not driving in yet.
I do have pictures of their truck but I don't know if I should post them on here. I will wait and see what some opions are. I would assume that this guy is a union firefighter as he had an I.A.F.F. sticker in his back window.
Post by: huntergreg on December 07, 2010, 02:59:55 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on December 07, 2010, 03:03:42 PM
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:04:04 PM
Post by: Tony 270 on December 07, 2010, 03:05:20 PM
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
Post by: MLBowhunting on December 07, 2010, 03:07:08 PM
Post by: jager on December 07, 2010, 03:08:01 PM
Post pics....everyone should know who the a-holes are! Firefighter or not!
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:08:21 PM
Someone else had said that is what I should have done but was just in my mind to get out of there. I will tell you there is alot that goes through your mind in a situtation like this.
Post by: agchawk on December 07, 2010, 03:14:26 PM
With that being said, it would be great if you could post them and see if we can find out who these idiots are. (Just wait and see what the authorities say about it)
:twocents:
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:18:02 PM
Post by: Skillet on December 07, 2010, 03:18:12 PM
Post by: LittleJohn on December 07, 2010, 03:20:52 PM
The Dumb A$$ should not have drawn on you, but you put yourself in the position, Nothing good could have come from you driving by there rig :dunno: :dunno: :twocents: :twocents:
Thats why I hunt the wilderness!!!! :chuckle:
I am probably an A$$ Hole now :'( :'(
Post by: LittleJohn on December 07, 2010, 03:23:07 PM
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on December 07, 2010, 03:23:41 PM
I just read my post and i am an A-Hole!!! :chuckle: :tung:
Does it matter if you are??
Post by: LittleJohn on December 07, 2010, 03:24:54 PM
Post by: fishermanjoe on December 07, 2010, 03:25:22 PM
Post by: BIGINNER on December 07, 2010, 03:26:27 PM
Question? Did you knowingly bust there hunt?? Answer: Yes, you did. I would be pissed if I got beat to a spot too. I would not have driven around there rig. If there story is true , they had permission to be there.
The Dumb A$$ should not have drawn on you, but you put yourself in the position, Nothing good could have come from you driving by there rig :dunno: :dunno: :twocents: :twocents:
Thats why I hunt the wilderness!!!! :chuckle:
I am probably an A$$ Hole now :'( :'(
LOL A$$HOLE!!!!! :chuckle: I WOULD'VE DONE THE SAME. WHO DO THOSE GUYS THINK THEY ARE BLOCKING OFF THE ROAD LIKE THAT? IF I WAS IN THAT SITUATION BUT THEIR TRUCK WAS OFF TO THE SIDE I WOULD RESPECT THE FACT THAT THEY'RE HUNTING AND NOT GO FURTHER, BUT BY BLOCKING OFF THE ROAD THE SHOWED THAT THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ANYINE ELSE WHO WOULD BE DRIVING ON THAT ROAD WHY SHOULD ANYINE GIVE A FLYING FU%^ THAT THEY'RE HUNTING THERE? :bash: :bash:
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:28:03 PM
Post by: Yeti on December 07, 2010, 03:29:41 PM
...... I was not there and wont judge your decision, but sometimes when there is a second thought of using your weapon its usually to late. Good thing you got out of there before he let that arrow fly. Good thing you are safe and unharmed!
:yeah:
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
« Reply #16 on: Today at 03:25:22 PM » Quote
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good job for acting cool. There are some questions that you have to ask yourself. This gun that you had? Was it on your person for personal protection? If it was, was your life being threatened. I am not saying that you made the wrong decision, its just that if you carry personal protection, dont be afraid to use it. I was not there and wont judge your decision, but sometimes when there is a second thought of using your weapon its usually to late. Good thing you got out of there before he let that arrow fly. Good thing you are safe and unharmed!
Yes it was for personal protection. I knew I was in my truck and if I could back out there quickly and get out of harms way. Trust me the incident still goes throgh my head.
Post by: LittleJohn on December 07, 2010, 03:37:18 PM
Didn't mean to sound like a Prick, Us Chehalis archers have to stick together ;) You ddi the right thing
Post by: fishermanjoe on December 07, 2010, 03:38:20 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on December 07, 2010, 03:40:20 PM
Question? Did you knowingly bust there hunt?? Answer: Yes, you did. I would be pissed if I got beat to a spot too. I would not have driven around there rig. If there story is true , they had permission to be there.
The Dumb A$$ should not have drawn on you, but you put yourself in the position, Nothing good could have come from you driving by there rig :dunno: :dunno: :twocents: :twocents:
Thats why I hunt the wilderness!!!! :chuckle:
I am probably an A$$ Hole now :'( :'(
I agree if I would of saw them parked in the road I would of turned around.
Post by: LittleJohn on December 07, 2010, 03:41:00 PM
He would have seen my .41 MAG As I backed out of there with one hand on the wheel
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 03:41:33 PM
« Reply #21 on: Today at 03:37:18 PM » Quote
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I ran into the same thing in Modern season in Ryderwood, trying to find my dad a cow. Every other spur road had a truck side-ways blocking it before day light. My old man grabbed me by the arm more than once during the week to keep me in the truck. " AINT going to do any good talking to those idiots", he would say. He was right.
Didn't mean to sound like a Prick, Us Chehalis archers have to stick together You ddi the right thing
John, You are fine yes we need to stick together. Now I know why I like to my elk in early season and don't have to worry about all the bs. I like my little secluded areas that you have to hike into. No one to worry about.
Post by: halflife65 on December 07, 2010, 03:48:23 PM
Gotta say kudos to you for keeping a level head. And I really hope those idiots get exactly what they deserve.
I think you did the right thing backing out of there. There'd really be hell to pay for everyone involved if you would've pulled that pistol. You certainly were carrying it for a reason and you have EVERY right to protect yourself, but if you can get out of a situation without using it that is definitely for the best (that should go without saying.) Not to mention, whether the guy is an a-hole or not, you'd have to live with the fact that you shot someone for the rest of your life. And I know I'm going to get some sh!t about the guy could've shot you because you didn't defend yourself. The guy pulled the bow back before you got the pistol out - so if he was going to try to shoot you he would've just released when he pulled the bow back. He was lucky that you have a cooler head - if you pulled the pistol you would've forced him to shoot and, unless he was point blank, the windshield would've been hard on his arrow, you would've probably survived it and then been forced to shoot at him. A bad deal all around. Just because you (maybe) COULD get away with claiming self defense in shooting a guy doesn't mean that you SHOULD if you think that you have another option.
You made the right decision - you had another option and you took it. Even though it can be hard to back off when someone is up in your face and threatening you like that, you can know that you were the bigger person. Two guys together and the guy pulls a bow back - what a f'n dipsh!t. The guy most likely thought he was in the right (whether or not he really was is not my point - he thought he was) but that's no excuse to do something like that.
Let the law handle it. That's their job.
ITGs. There's a whole thread on it.
Post by: ser300wsm on December 07, 2010, 03:54:14 PM
Post by: Annette on December 07, 2010, 04:13:22 PM
Post by: Tony 270 on December 07, 2010, 04:15:32 PM
Post by: MLhunter1 on December 07, 2010, 04:21:40 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on December 07, 2010, 04:24:08 PM
Regardless if he didn't launch an arrow at your vehicle. The intent was there. If you point a deadly weapon at someone, it's with the intent to kill or injure. With today's high powered bows, I could see an arrow going through a windshield. You made the right decision by driving away. The self defense laws are so inconsistent in this state, I'm not willing to take a chance if I have the ability to escape. I've seen so many cases where you could shot them and not get prosecuted, but seen others where they have. It's about the ability to escape and your life being threatened. Do not post any information or pictures on this or it will go down the toilet.
Post by: lokidog on December 07, 2010, 04:26:22 PM
Why wouldn't you have waited by the gate for the sheriff to arrive so it could have been dealt with then and there? Call up and say what happened and your life was threatened. A photo of a truck, three guys against the word of one, days later... unfortunately I bet nothing is going to happen.
:yeah:
Exactly what I was going to post, but got done before I could. Nobody points a weapon at me and goes home for dinner without the cops talking to them first! Hope they get what they deserve.
BTW blocking roads is BS, shou;ld have pushed the truck into the ditch before driving by....
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 04:33:11 PM
Why wouldn't you have waited by the gate for the sheriff to arrive so it could have been dealt with then and there? Call up and say what happened and your life was threatened. A photo of a truck, three guys against the word of one, days later... unfortunately I bet nothing is going to happen.
Exactly what I was going to post, but got done before I could. Nobody points a weapon at me and goes home for dinner without the cops talking to them first! Hope they get what they deserve.
BTW blocking roads is BS, shou;ld have pushed the truck into the ditch before driving by....
I just wanted to get out of there and back to camp. Once at camp I made the phone call but Cowlitz County dispatched stated that they were extremely busy that night and it could take 2-3 hours before a deputy could contact me. I was contacted by the deputy but i won't go into details about what he had said. I just have to wait a see where this all ends up now. I do know there are some pretty serious charges on the table.
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
Post by: gotshot on December 07, 2010, 04:59:14 PM
Post by: whacker1 on December 07, 2010, 05:11:44 PM
I drove around several vehicles this season not knowing the road ended or why the vehicle was parked half on the road and half off.. I also drove around several that were blocking main roads. There were even an occassion where there were people stationed at the rig. I asked what was going on and he said that his partner just shot a moose and were giving it some time to die. I felt that it was most admirable and I waited along with them for 15 minutes or more and then helped them search for it.
I don't agree with blocking roads, but everyone seems to operate under a different code of ethics and moral decision making. So when something is unusual (vehicle blocking road) then expect something unusual on the other end.
I am glad that you weren't hurt. Should it come out that you had a sidearm to protect yourself with, but you chose better than using it, I would think it would come out in your favor.
Post by: rougheye on December 07, 2010, 05:20:05 PM
I was thinking that if someone pulled that on me, they might not make it out until well after dark. Four flat tires and an empty gas tank...
:yeah: maybe push it off a hill
Post by: Tony 270 on December 07, 2010, 05:20:06 PM
Would suck if that truck wasn't theirs though, just a coincidence.
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 05:26:06 PM
I was thinking that if someone pulled that on me, they might not make it out until well after dark. Four flat tires and an empty gas tank...
It almost seems like it comes down to knowing the area. Seems like most who complain are not local to the areas they are complaining about. Not knowing whats at the other end. Im not a fan of blocked roads. but if the road is in a good area. and is not needed to access anything why drive around? I had an incident in MF season. I parked half off the road to a landing. My truck was in site and there were elk in the clearcut. Hence why i WALKED up. a gentleman and his wife and kid driving a diesel dually decided to go around my truck through the ditch and make as much noise as possible. While seeing me in plain daylight as i was 75yards away. they drove to the top as i watched the elk bust into the timber. they reached the top rolled down their window to ask "see anything?" it took everything in my power to not rip the son of a B**ch out of his truck and roll him down the ridge after the elk.
Blocking mainlines is stupid and should not be done. but parking where you alert others to someone hunting in an area and avoiding driving in and alerting game makes sense on timber company lands. Common sense would state that if you know its a dead end and someone is already there let them be. and if you dont know assume it is. thats on you for not scouting and knowing the area your hunting. If its a mainline or your only way out be my guest to go around. and if your mad you see a rig where you wanted to hunt. Try waking up earlier. :twocents:
Post by: gasman on December 07, 2010, 05:37:50 PM
Glad you got out ok. but was it a dead end road? From my perspective it seems like one dick move lead to another. but they took it too far. but this whole thing still seems avoidable though. If they parked that far back most times it is so they dont spook the elk. so what good would come from driving on top of them and spooking them off so nobody has a chance? :dunno:
:yeah:
I have to agree with Little John also :bdid:
You did the rigth thing, with getting the hell out of there and not escalating the situation, but you made your self one of them by going around the truck to get to the elk that they were all ready stalking up to.
And the part that makes it so bad, is you knew it was a dead end road and elk were there, but could not let some one else got there befpre you :bdid:
Not trying to bust your balls, but to me that is just as bad as going around there vehicle :bash:
I do hope that those *censored*s get the book thrown at them for threatening you life >:( >:( >:( >:(
Post by: Angus on December 07, 2010, 05:45:52 PM
Post by: salmonslayer1 on December 07, 2010, 05:46:24 PM
Post by: FREDIN on December 07, 2010, 05:49:22 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on December 07, 2010, 06:04:48 PM
Doesn't make it right by blocking the road, but with minutes left in daylight, not a that big of a deal at that point.
As far as the rest of it, I put my :twocents:. Could have all been avoided though. I don't know the area so it's hard to picture the scenario. If I was on elk right at dusk making a hunt and someone drove up and ruined my hunt, I would be pist. I've gotten to an area late and left the guys alone. After they shot a bull, they put me back on them to get a shot at one.
We have to share the woods and try and make it work for everyone.
Post by: jstone on December 07, 2010, 06:23:19 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 07, 2010, 06:24:11 PM
If you are bowhunting you better be packing iron for personal protection - too bad but thats what it looks like to me in this state.
Post by: jstone on December 07, 2010, 06:44:07 PM
Post by: guardian on December 07, 2010, 06:58:49 PM
Post by: Blsum on December 07, 2010, 07:09:08 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 07:10:04 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 07:12:40 PM
If you were in open country and spotted elk on foot and went over a ridge to find a hunter already there working the elk, would you continue after the elk?
Post by: LittleJohn on December 07, 2010, 07:16:00 PM
Blsum,
If you were in open country and spotted elk on foot and went over a ridge to find a hunter already there working the elk, would you continue after the elk?
great point :)
Post by: SI Eagle on December 07, 2010, 07:23:54 PM
Post by: TheHunt on December 07, 2010, 07:24:17 PM
But the comments that many bow hunters are fellons is very true. That might be something the Washington Bow hunters can lobby to get changed. Makes a person think about packing heat when elk hunting.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 07, 2010, 07:33:05 PM
It seems that we have all encountered the confrontation, just not one that resulted in someone aiming a weapon at another. I am not sure what I would have done. Fight or flight. Best is flight. I surely would have demanded the county mounty to meet me, as I am not leaving until after an investigation.
Blsum,
If you were in open country and spotted elk on foot and went over a ridge to find a hunter already there working the elk, would you continue after the elk?
Do you mean if they aim a weapon at you to get you to leave?
Post by: gasman on December 07, 2010, 07:42:01 PM
This is called "Gravel Road Rage".
Blsum,
If you were in open country and spotted elk on foot and went over a ridge to find a hunter already there working the elk, would you continue after the elk?
Do you mean if they aim a weapon at you to get you to leave?
I believe he is talking about< if you see an animal you are hunting, it goes over a ridge/hill and when you get over to teh area, there is all ready another hunter stalking the animal to make a kill.
Do you leave and let them take the animal or do you interfier and/or try to get it your self?
Post by: dirty24d on December 07, 2010, 07:45:50 PM
Why wouldn't you have waited by the gate for the sheriff to arrive so it could have been dealt with then and there? Call up and say what happened and your life was threatened. A photo of a truck, three guys against the word of one, days later... unfortunately I bet nothing is going to happen.
:yeah:
Exactly what I was going to post, but got done before I could. Nobody points a weapon at me and goes home for dinner without the cops talking to them first! Hope they get what they deserve.
BTW blocking roads is BS, shou;ld have pushed the truck into the ditch before driving by....
Shove that rig right in the ditch, act like an a hole get treated like one. i agree lokidog..
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 07:46:02 PM
Blsum,
If you were in open country and spotted elk on foot and went over a ridge to find a hunter already there working the elk, would you continue after the elk?
Do you mean if they aim a weapon at you to get you to leave?
[/quote]
No. Im hoping the common sense approach would prevail. You leave and let those there first hunt. Im gonna get flamed for this but there were two options for how this could have gone down without escalating to the point of a weapon being pointed.
1. You dont drive around someone in the first place- smart choice
2. You get out of the truck and take your licks like a man. (who knows you might win :dunno: ) - not as appealing
everytime i hear a case like this where someone "had" to drive around someone. It always sounds like a case of a whiny kid. "If i cant get them, neither should they"
Was the guy right to draw a bow? Hell no. Was the OP right to drive around? NO. Like i said one dick move leading to another. One broke the law, one didnt. Sometimes the guys the law is protecting arent the greatest guys either(no i dont know the op, and i am basing this off HIS words in his post and past experiences with people driving up on me with to bust my hunt) Dunno, but this thread sorta struck a nerve with me.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 07, 2010, 07:46:50 PM
Why does the guy in the truck who blocked the road feel like he owns the herd of elk? It is sort of like fishing IMHO.... alot of guys standing elbow to elbow casting at the same fish. It is ugly, but it is what it is. Personally, I would not proceed with the hunt if someone else was on the game, but if I decided to take my chance with the herd as well as them, and then they leveled a deadly weapon at me? Don't make me hurt you...
Chester, ask yourself this. How much distance would the threatening assclown feel was appropriate? Is 500 yards to close for him? 1000 yards? The point is, the game does not belong to him, he is wrong to assault a fellow hunter. He caused the problem. Look at his actions, he blocks the road to stake claim to something that is not his, he then confronts another hunter, and draws his weapon. He could be dead today...
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 07:47:17 PM
Post by: gasman on December 07, 2010, 07:55:01 PM
But these are two different situations.
:jacked:
Sorry.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 07, 2010, 08:01:07 PM
Hey Ice, if i remember correctly from your otehr thread, you were on a FS road that was over grown with vegitation. Now if a road is over grown, that does not make it closed to vehilce traffic. I do not recall you having that info to your OP on that thread :dunno:
But these are two different situations.
:jacked:
Sorry.
Yeah, I posted that it was an open road, just closed in and they had the right to be there...just pissed me that they came in at the last second and drove past me... The only thing I aimed at them was my forked tongue... :chuckle:
As far as "it's first come first serve" (d)....give me a break. NO law states that you have any more right to purse game than another hunter.
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 07, 2010, 08:03:02 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 07, 2010, 08:05:23 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:08:55 PM
I actually believe in your regs it does. It doesnt say its a law. just common courtesy. If i came to clear cut and saw elk. 1000yds away. and saw you close. id leave you to hunt. probably watch thru the binos. and if you connected id probably go over and offer to lend a hand getting it out. For all this, trying to go over and put a stalk on them myself wouldnt sit right with me. and i hope you would do the same if the positions were reversed. But its getting less and less common. its not a law. but it is called sportsmanship. like i said the law can be used by a**holes for there benefit as easy as it can be used for good guys. show me the law that says parking in the road is illegal? the signs only say dont block gates.
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:10:26 PM
Elk hunting is a sensitive subject everywhere...i've seen more friendships ruined over elk than any other reason! People are not themselves while chasing elk, choices are made without thought and greed gets the best of us! no matter where were at or what the situation, theres always gonna be incidents like the one mentioned in this thread so its best to try and use good judgement and avoid situations like this.
lol...but if it were us and some guy came up in a truck. you'd be right with me wanting to whip his ass. :chuckle:
Post by: ICEMAN on December 07, 2010, 08:13:57 PM
Ice,
I actually believe in your regs it does. It doesnt say its a law. just common courtesy. If i came to clear cut and saw elk. 1000yds away. and saw you close. id leave you to hunt. probably watch thru the binos. and if you connected id probably go over and offer to lend a hand getting it out. For all this, trying to go over and put a stalk on them myself wouldnt sit right with me. and i hope you would do the same if the positions were reversed. But its getting less and less common. its not a law. but it is called sportsmanship. like i said the law can be used by a**holes for there benefit as easy as it can be used for good guys. show me the law that says parking in the road is illegal? the signs only say dont block gates.
I agree on the courtesy thing. Good to back off. But there are so many variables as to who thinks they were there first... we now have language barriers in the woods, guys leasing land with no boundaries, guys carrying multi season tags, you name it, it is confusing....and to think for a second that you are entitled to game you see...I see trouble coming.
Post by: gasman on December 07, 2010, 08:16:36 PM
Hey Ice, if i remember correctly from your otehr thread, you were on a FS road that was over grown with vegitation. Now if a road is over grown, that does not make it closed to vehilce traffic. I do not recall you having that info to your OP on that thread :dunno:
But these are two different situations.
:jacked:
Sorry.
Yeah, I posted that it was an open road, just closed in and they had the right to be there...just pissed me that they came in at the last second and drove past me... The only thing I aimed at them was my forked tongue... :chuckle:
As far as "it's first come first serve" (d)....give me a break. NO law states that you have any more right to purse game than another hunter.
I understand your frustration, trust me I do. I have been on both sides of your situation :rolleyes:
When some one rolled by me on a quad, I just waved as they pass, kept hunting. I can see what they miss every time
Post by: bobcat on December 07, 2010, 08:18:17 PM
I spent a few days hunting on Weyerhaeuser property during modern firearm elk season this year. I actually liked it when people would park back a ways instead of actually driving all the way out a spur road into a clearcut. This way I knew there was already somebody there. Other times I would drive out to an area I wanted to hunt, and park 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile back from the end of the road, and walk into the area, only to find that someone else had already driven in there. So really it does make sense to park back a ways and block or at least half block a road so that someone knows not to drive in there.
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 07, 2010, 08:25:54 PM
Elk hunting is a sensitive subject everywhere...i've seen more friendships ruined over elk than any other reason! People are not themselves while chasing elk, choices are made without thought and greed gets the best of us! no matter where were at or what the situation, theres always gonna be incidents like the one mentioned in this thread so its best to try and use good judgement and avoid situations like this.
lol...but if it were us and some guy came up in a truck. you'd be right with me wanting to whip his ass. :chuckle:
na, me and richard arent like that... we'd let the guys chew us out and leave in peace :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:27:25 PM
Elk hunting is a sensitive subject everywhere...i've seen more friendships ruined over elk than any other reason! People are not themselves while chasing elk, choices are made without thought and greed gets the best of us! no matter where were at or what the situation, theres always gonna be incidents like the one mentioned in this thread so its best to try and use good judgement and avoid situations like this.
na, me and richard arent like that... we'd let the guys chew us out and leave in peace :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
lol...but if it were us and some guy came up in a truck. you'd be right with me wanting to whip his ass. :chuckle:
:chuckle: if you throw richard into the mix i wouldnt want to be the Ahole in the truck :bdid:
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2010, 08:37:07 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:42:48 PM
Post by: high country on December 07, 2010, 08:43:16 PM
I would likely not have been as cool as you knowing that even if some *censored*bag does loose an arrow through the glass it is a 1 in a million that it will maintain its course and worse odds yet that I will bleed out before that sumbitch eats 6 very large caliber bullets.
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2010, 08:45:34 PM
How can he be certain one of if not both werent weyco employees that could be back there at any point? :dunno:He can't from what he wrote. I doubt Weyerhauser guys would block a road, however. Seems like they could have identified themselves that way if it were true.
Post by: bridgeman on December 07, 2010, 08:48:04 PM
Post by: guardian on December 07, 2010, 08:48:59 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:50:16 PM
How can he be certain one of if not both werent weyco employees that could be back there at any point? :dunno:He can't from what he wrote. I doubt Weyerhauser guys would block a road, however. Seems like they could have identified themselves that way if it were true.
If you were in verbal argument with someone you dont know how quickly would you give up your employers name?
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:51:59 PM
They told sport that a dump truck driver gave them permission. The only truck in the area was a private contractor and i don't believe they have the authority to decide who can tresspass and who can't.
Your right they cant. just running through all the possibilities. Once again. If he would have turned around when he saw another rig. NONE of this would be an issue. :twocents:
Post by: Blsum on December 07, 2010, 08:54:33 PM
This is called "Gravel Road Rage".
Blsum,
If you were in open country and spotted elk on foot and went over a ridge to find a hunter already there working the elk, would you continue after the elk?
Do you mean if they aim a weapon at you to get you to leave?
I believe he is talking about< if you see an animal you are hunting, it goes over a ridge/hill and when you get over to teh area, there is all ready another hunter stalking the animal to make a kill.
Do you leave and let them take the animal or do you interfier and/or try to get it your self?
So here is my theory on this question. First off you need to ask yourself a couple of question's. Are you hunting a 3 pnt or better unit, any elk, or antlerless. If its an antlerless unit I would probably stay back and see if the other hunter shot something. Then I would watch the animals and see if I could get a chance at them. I sure as hell wouldn't just barge into an area and try and take an animal from the other hunter. If said other hunter decided they where going to try and get me to leave by pulling their weapon on me, well there is a good chance he won't be making back to his truck.
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 08:57:17 PM
why would it matter if there were point restrictions or not?
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2010, 08:57:34 PM
If they were there legitimately, there would be no need for a verbal argument.How can he be certain one of if not both werent weyco employees that could be back there at any point? :dunno:He can't from what he wrote. I doubt Weyerhauser guys would block a road, however. Seems like they could have identified themselves that way if it were true.
If you were in verbal argument with someone you dont know how quickly would you give up your employers name?
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 09:00:53 PM
How can he be certain one of if not both werent weyco employees that could be back there at any point? :dunno:He can't from what he wrote. I doubt Weyerhauser guys would block a road, however. Seems like they could have identified themselves that way if it were true.
If you were in verbal argument with someone you dont know how quickly would you give up your employers name?
Once again you already admitted that he didnt know if they were or not. no way to be positive. and a someone drives around your rig to beat you to an animal? that calls for words to be had. im not saying take it to physical. but i would certainly let him know i didnt appreciate it.
If they were there legitimately, there would be no need for a verbal argument.
Post by: guardian on December 07, 2010, 09:01:17 PM
They told sport that a dump truck driver gave them permission. The only truck in the area was a private contractor and i don't believe they have the authority to decide who can tresspass and who can't.
Your right they cant. just running through all the possibilities. Once again. If he would have turned around when he saw another rig. NONE of this would be an issue. :twocentquote] Your right also. So basically it will never change there in that unit so maybe time to change hunting area?
Post by: poohdog on December 07, 2010, 09:01:35 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 09:03:03 PM
Post by: guardian on December 07, 2010, 09:07:15 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 07, 2010, 09:07:41 PM
i guess long story short, dont be an ahole and you wont have run ins with bigger aholes then yourself.That's a good summary. :chuckle:
Now, everyone chill and enjoy the holidays...
[smg id=10140]
[smg id=10139]
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 09:08:36 PM
Post by: ribka on December 07, 2010, 09:09:05 PM
i guess long story short, dont be an ahole and you wont have run ins with bigger aholes then yourself.That's a good summary. :chuckle:
Now, everyone chill and enjoy the holidays...
[smg id=10140]
[smg id=10139]
Bob
Now that is YAR material there!
Post by: MLhunter1 on December 07, 2010, 09:10:23 PM
Post by: remington300mag on December 07, 2010, 09:35:31 PM
First off, With IceMan's situation.... after talking with Ice in the hills this year I realized I know the guy that drove past him, quads are illegal where this guy was riding and he has no business in where he was! He was breaking the law....not to mention the guy is a real dip chit anyway! Ice did a great job of keeping a level head.....I wouldn't have!
Next, I will say this, If I am driving a public road, or any road that I have legal access to, and there is another vehicle blocking said road, trying to keep me out of somewhere I have every legal right to be....I will try my hardest every time to get past your rig! I will not purposely blow your hunt, at least any more than you are trying to blow mine by blocking the road!
Last of all, If you feel as if it is ever ok to draw a weapon at me or anyone in my family, you had better be damn well ready to use it!! I would have had know problem putting 3 rounds center mass into that S.O.B, and I would have slept just fine afterward! When he drew down....It becomes a "Him or me" situation....Even while backing up, if that bow was aimed at me, he would have been having lead coming at him! He put your life in immediate danger and for that he earned what was coming to him!
Sorry if I sound insensitive or even like a jerk about it..... witnessed a situation happen when I was young in the woods and it totally changed my view on when it is time to protect yourself! And in this case, it was time!
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 09:46:50 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 09:50:13 PM
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 07, 2010, 09:50:43 PM
I dont think anyone defended drawing a weapon in this entire thread. :dunno: that was beyond called for. Re read the thread. It should have never come to that. we more or less discussed how to avoid any situation that would come to that. and the doing anything you can to get by someone? yea you kinda do sound like a jerk. and im sure someone will start a thread on here about how you blew their hunt when you do. the black and white is going out of your way to not walk the last 1/4 mile, couple hundred yards to the end of a road. is a dick move. and all you would do is ruin your chances at success aswell as someone elses. while legal it shows almost zero respect for other people in the woods. so i guess if you cant get them nobody else should either right? in this thread your on a soap box. on others you would be refered to as a "road hunter" or "slob hunter". why would you try to go on top of someone like that? that in itself makes an unsafe situation. let alone ruin someone elses hunt. its not legally wrong. its just plain wrong to do that.
If its a spur getting blocked, tough $hit. but if ur blocking the main road, then expect broken sticks in ur doorlocks and the oil drained from ur rig! The only thing that annoys me when someone blocks a spur is when they block half way down where there is no turnarounds >:( At least be a courteous dick :)
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 07, 2010, 09:50:58 PM
Member
Offline
Posts: 31
Re: Winston Creek Hunting Incident 12-3-2010
« Reply #57 on: Today at 07:23:54 PM » Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sport is always on here talking about dealing w/ all the people in the Winston but it seems that he may be part of the problem. He didn't say anything about the having a problem w/ anyone in the white Toyota all week in his first post and then later they were apparently breaking the rules all week? Sounds to me like Sport thinks he has special rights in the unit and if he see's elk he can drive by and do what all the other "jerks" in the unit do but he is not one of them. They probably blocked the road when they saw elk so some idiot would not drive around them and spook the elk. It appears that happened anyway. No one way should someone threaten or attempt to assault him and that it totally out of line. That is why people should try and get out of the rig and have some consideration if someone beats you out there. Sport I get the feeling that you are one of the guys that are up there, early bow, rifle, late bow and hunting w/ any weapon and with the "girlfriends" tag. Maybe they should lock the entire unit up and only let the walk in people come and that would solve the problem. Until then, I guess you have to deal w/ it but again, no way should it have gone that far.
SI Eagle,
As a matter of fact I have committed on people bitching about all the road hunters in this unit and you just have to learn to deal with it on the weekends. We do spend alot of time up there and follow weycos rules by mt biking or walking in on foot during the week. When you spend all that time doing that and you get the A-holes that don't follow the rules it gets old. It was not just the white toyota pickup it was others also. And I don't think at all nor would I ever think that I should have special rights to hunt up there. The bottom line is just follow the rules. The point here is that should not have been in there yet.
I can tell you that I do not hunt up there at all during early archery and I may make a trip or too during riffle elk season just to see what is going on.
Guardian made a comment on here earlier and he nailed it on the nose. My point is you just get tired of everyone breaking the rules up there and enough was enough that day. Yes, I already know that I should not of went around their truck but I was at my witts end with people not following the rules up there that week. That was the last thing I thought would happen was getting a weapn drawn.
Post by: ML_Hunter on December 07, 2010, 09:56:27 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 09:57:34 PM
Post by: 6x6rack on December 07, 2010, 10:00:26 PM
The roads thing is tough. Someone goes in hours early to a spot only to have their hunt messed up at the last minute by someone who slept in 2 extra hours "because they can".
Hunters seeing elk and knowing another hunter is on them, but going in anyway and spoiling someones hunt because "they have the legal right to do it".
Is it possible they did get permission from the truck driver, and didn't know he was not authorized to give it?
As for me, I never go around parked vehicles across a road. Someone got there first, good for them and good luck.
Bottom line is I'm truly glad this has a happy ending, but wondering if it could have been altogether avoided with a fellow hunter bagging an elk to boot?
Combat hunting sucks.
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:00:35 PM
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 07, 2010, 10:02:11 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:05:04 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2010, 10:06:00 PM
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 07, 2010, 10:08:07 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on December 07, 2010, 10:11:29 PM
I come around the corner on a back country road and your blocking it!! YOU better be broke down, cause if your not I will MOVE your vehicle! end of story. What is with you people on here saying you shouldnt of drove around their rig wtf :bash:So what if your on a dead end road, there is a herd of elk ahead of you, and there is only minutes left in the hunt? You driving up with your bow and getting a shot? With those circumstances, I don't have an issue with it. Anyone that is in elk knows in the heat of the moment under those circumstances, your not looking for a parking spot. I'm playing devils advocate based on the story given.
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2010, 10:28:21 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:31:28 PM
thats pretty much how first come first served works.
Post by: Tony 270 on December 07, 2010, 10:36:12 PM
I'd be interested to see how some of you river fish. If there is someone there do you leave that stretch of river and go a few miles down or do you go ahead and fish anyway? And I suppose you never engage in a "combat fishing" situation, because you should have gotten up first and claimed the whole river to yourself?
I believe in giving people room and not messing up their hunt, but I'm not going to give them the whole damn mountain.
Post by: flinger on December 07, 2010, 10:37:41 PM
If you are on the elk first they do belong to you as long as they are in that area. Thats the unwritten rule there. I would always back off and give someone room to do their thing. I would immediatley try to figure out where the elk will retreat to and cut them off far away from where the hunters entered. Do it any other way and you are an A Hole.
This is exactly what my hunting partner and I did in this same general area,we chose to drive down a different way because two hunters on a quad basicly had a road blocked and were obviously glassing something we were driving down all the sudden saw the same quad and the hunters running down another road we watched thru binos and saw the elk they were stalking bust to the timber we drove around to the other side of the timber to another cut hitailed it to the edge and waited to see if the elk might come thru but darkness was working against us so no luck. Would I have shot "THEIR" elk if they came thru ? HELL YES without hesitation :twocents:
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2010, 10:37:54 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:38:10 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:40:36 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2010, 10:42:31 PM
Post by: washelkhntr on December 07, 2010, 10:45:17 PM
If you are on the elk first they do belong to you as long as they are in that area. Thats the unwritten rule there. I would always back off and give someone room to do their thing. I would immediatley try to figure out where the elk will retreat to and cut them off far away from where the hunters entered. Do it any other way and you are an A Hole.
Last I checked the elk belong to all of us, not the first guy that is on them. Call me an A hole, cause if I see elk, I am getting on them. Go ahead flame away, but I don't go hunting to pass up an opportunity, no matter what you think your unwritten rule is.
:twocents:
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:46:22 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2010, 10:54:17 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 10:55:58 PM
Post by: 6x6rack on December 07, 2010, 10:58:03 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 07, 2010, 10:58:38 PM
I would love to see some of these guide services who do this regualry, the mossback and tines up stories
Post by: bobcat on December 07, 2010, 11:07:36 PM
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 11:08:25 PM
huntnnw the turn arounds are at the end. so effectively you would end up driving through someones hunt. simple answer is beat them there. if you dont find another spot. take the next rd. dont drive up on someone. nearly all spur rds the length that you described have pullouts for trucks. This may be hard to understand for people who didnt grow up in the woods. but most would park just past the last turn out. if there is no turn out park at the Y. respect that you got beat and move to another spot and alot more people would get along in the woods. Adapt and Overcome. alter your plans. simple as that. or when you get :spank_butt: by someone who is pissed cuz you drove up on them dont come whining on here. You were warned. I take it in stride. but i know how people react, its why i would back out and go somewhere else.
Post by: chester on December 07, 2010, 11:09:58 PM
Post by: Jerome on December 07, 2010, 11:10:44 PM
I think it depends on each particular situation. As I said before, this year it happened to me more than once, where someone was blocking or partially blocking a road that I had planned on driving down, during modern firearm elk season. But I didn't have a problem with it, in fact I appreciated the fact that they parked before the end of the road so that I knew someone was already hunting there. Otherwise, I would have just drove down to the end of the road just to see there was somebody already there, and it doesn't help the hunting any to have vehicles driving right up into an area in which elk may be feeding. If someone is already there, I don't want to be there too. So I just went somewhere else. Or a guy could park next to the other vehicle and walk in and join the other hunters if you really want to hunt that particular spot. But I figured if they got there before me, they could have it.Exactly.
Post by: sakoshooter on December 07, 2010, 11:45:13 PM
That is B.S. :bdid:
Post pics....everyone should know who the a-holes are! Firefighter or not!
I agree, post the pics. Let the cards fall where they may.
Post by: remington300mag on December 08, 2010, 12:02:37 AM
Ok, Chester, let me ask you this....How do you know that truck is on the same elk you see?!?! How do you know if they are hunting right where your trying to get to??? Guess we should just assume huh?!?! Well, like I said, If I see that, I am going to blow by them! Now, if I see someone out making a stalk.... working for a shot....or even glassing something.....I will give them the space they need!
Oh and just so you know Chester, I have recently became a "Road Hunter".....I have a disability that says that is all I can do! Oh and guess what, I wear it like a badge of Honor!!! At least I am still out there!
Post by: chester on December 08, 2010, 12:20:21 AM
Hey IceMan......Just so you know I am going to follow Chester's advice....Next year when you are heading over to the ridge.....you are going to see me parked at the very beginning, sideways in the road....since it is one way in and one way out, I guess it is an ok thing to do!!! I don't want anyone else anywhere near the ridge next year!!! They might blow my hunt!
Ok, Chester, let me ask you this....How do you know that truck is on the same elk you see?!?! How do you know if they are hunting right where your trying to get to??? Guess we should just assume huh?!?! Well, like I said, If I see that, I am going to blow by them! Now, if I see someone out making a stalk.... working for a shot....or even glassing something.....I will give them the space they need!
Oh and just so you know Chester, I have recently became a "Road Hunter".....I have a disability that says that is all I can do! Oh and guess what, I wear it like a badge of Honor!!! At least I am still out there!
I dont. but if your closer im gonna let you have at it. and go find some other elk.Im not trying to go and park next to anyone or hunt on top of them. If I want to get to an area and they are on one road. take the next. Im not going to drive by them. i was taught respect in the woods from a very young age. Flip that around. your glassing or on top of elk and someone blows by you parks and takes a shot. im willing to bet your going to get a little heated over that. it happens. doesnt make it right.
And as for your last little bit there Kudos to you for keeping at it :tup: I almost think you would appreciate that I wouldnt crowd you in a spot. If you cant leave the road wouldnt you rather that others didnt come down right on top of you? I let others hunt where they may be. and i hunt where i try to be by myself.If they beat me to it, ill go somewhere else. If others want to come in. I try to capitalize on the pressure. Id rather not have to worry about someone coming down behind me, possibly shooting over past me. And I'd also like to not have to worry about someone doing something to my truck and having enough respect to leave others belongings alone.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 08, 2010, 04:26:27 AM
Does Weyerhauser approve of you blocking their road? Does the Dept of Wildlife approve of you blocking the road so they cannot patrol the area.... Or do they just figure since it is you hunting, they can F themselves?
Blocking a road is wrong. You could block someone in that you do not know is there. You claim that driving in will mess it up? So the guys in the white yota must not have driven to the end of the road..... How did they know that nobody was ahead of them?
You need a drivers ed refresher course. If I wasn't such a nice guy and some *censored* blocked me like that, I would wrap his yota with a tow strap and barrel roll him out of the way.
I cannot believe the guys on here willing to spout their unwritten rules of the woods which place themselves above everybody else, which take claim to the wildlife, and are the demise of common courtesy that hunters used to have. :bash:
Post by: rasbo on December 08, 2010, 04:56:39 AM
Post by: Bigshooter on December 08, 2010, 05:00:45 AM
If the guy is "blocking the road" and you drive around him, how is he blocking the road?
I will never read or post in this thread again. I feel dumber for having read the whole thing.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 08, 2010, 05:30:42 AM
This has to be the dumbest thread in the history of hunting washington.
If the guy is "blocking the road" and you drive around him, how is he blocking the road?
I will never read or post in this thread again. I feel dumber for having read the whole thing.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: MADMAX on December 08, 2010, 06:44:48 AM
I just read the whole thing
I have hunted the Winston since the Kid valley store used to give out Weyerhauser "heavy browse area maps" , anyone remember them?
This year I went to Williams creek gun hunting and it was 1/10 the amount of BS as the Winston during archery season.
I agree on 3 things
1) Should not have had a weapon pulled on you and yes I would have backed out of there with pistol out on dash, no meats worth that kind of BS
2) The *censored*bag should not have blocked the road, he should have pulled to the side at least.
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
Just my
:twocents:
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on December 08, 2010, 07:08:01 AM
This has to be the dumbest thread in the history of hunting washington.
If the guy is "blocking the road" and you drive around him, how is he blocking the road?
I will never read or post in this thread again. I feel dumber for having read the whole thing.
Awwww morning, my daily laugh, thank you Bigshooter
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on December 08, 2010, 07:13:31 AM
Post by: high country on December 08, 2010, 07:42:42 AM
Post by: poohdog on December 08, 2010, 08:02:52 AM
Post by: BAR C3 on December 08, 2010, 08:43:37 AM
So you guys that claim its BS dont block a dead end road, if you saw elk in a clearcut off a different landing you would drive over to that road and drive out to the end of it. Well where I hunt the elk would be gone by driving out to the end. I do respect people already there. Park next to them or go back to where you saw them from and make a new plan.My point exactly! I believe 95% of this board would do the same with the scenario given. Everyone keeps forgetting the circumstances. It's 4 pm and the elk are not far ahead on a dead end road. Your on a gated road. Most of you are all doing the same. :bash:
I wouldn't blame you for it. Matter of fact, I would probably help you pack it out for a few steaks.
And for the record, I don't think this is a stupid thread, it gives me a good perspective of what people are thinking in the woods. Good thread!
Post by: lokidog on December 08, 2010, 09:12:08 AM
In 1988, I had a friend visiting from back east. We knew there was a herd off the end of a 1/4-1/3 mile spur road so he parked at the entrance to the road. Half way down the road, some guys drove right by my buddy walking to the end. As my buddy got there, they were just leaving having missed the 5 point that was just off the landing, he and the herd moved away from the landing when the guys drove up. :bash: He still didn't draw his bow on them. :dunno:
Still, this was one of the few times something like that happened. Nowadays with the mismanagement and reduction of our elk herds and the increase in hunter numbers (tell me again why we need more hunters?) it is much more challenging to even find elk, let alone get a shot at a legal one. With a reduction in resource availability comes an increase in competition for the remaining resource.
I had a herd with a bugling bull in it move away from the very steep landing I was on this year so I tried to drive around the valley to find a better way to cut them off. When I came to a spur road that I thought might lead me closer to the elk, there were two rigs already parked at the Y, so I kept going even though I did not know if they were even working the same elk I had heard and seen. I came back later, chatted with the guys for a bit and when they left I continued down the road. I mentioned to them that I hadseen them so didn't cut into their space. Hopefully all 8 of them will remember that when they come up to someone else parked off to the side at a spur road., I did end up seeing a cow but coulds not get a shot.
In the end, if you are hunting a dead end, I would suggest parking off to the side and hope someone coming by will have the courtesy to not blow by you and if you come to a vehicle parked on the side of a spur road, don't drive by it unless you have to.
And, DON"T EVER POINT A WEAPON AT ME THAT YOU DO NOT INTEND TO USE!
Post by: Alchase on December 08, 2010, 10:51:14 AM
My only conclusion for those that suggest this might be OK is that you would do the same thing yourself.
As for the pulling the weapon on someone while they are sitting in their vehicle? Well he was a scumbag when he blocked the road in the first place, now he committed a felony. He is very lucky he survived the incident without getting shot.
Two thing about this thread that are very disappointing:
1. This scumbag will probably do the same thing again to someone else unless he is charged.
2. That quite a few of the people on here seem to actually condone this behavior over an elk.
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 08, 2010, 10:53:18 AM
Post by: poohdog on December 08, 2010, 11:02:06 AM
Post by: salmonslayer1 on December 08, 2010, 11:27:18 AM
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 08, 2010, 11:39:44 AM
Post by: h20hunter on December 08, 2010, 01:36:05 PM
1. Blocking a road. Unless you are on private property which is your own I can't see any reason to block a road. I can think of countless reasons somebody could be ahead of you even if they shouldn't be. Still, you don't own the right of way. You don't own the wildlife. You don't own the rights of passage. Yes somebody could bust your hunt if you are hunting that close to the road. Sorry, them's the brakes. If you are blocking a road I'm going around. Sorry, I just don't think you have the right to restrict my movement on public land, for good or bad.
2. Drawing a bow. This is a much bigger issue then the blocking road discussion. I applaud the guy for getting the hell out and being cool headed. Other guy is lucky he didn't get killed for his actions.
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 01:46:48 PM
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 01:47:51 PM
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
:yeah:
Post by: BIGINNER on December 08, 2010, 01:48:13 PM
After killing many brain cells getting this far into the thread I still don't understand how the opinions can be so varied.
1. Blocking a road. Unless you are on private property which is your own I can't see any reason to block a road. I can think of countless reasons somebody could be ahead of you even if they shouldn't be. Still, you don't own the right of way. You don't own the wildlife. You don't own the rights of passage. Yes somebody could bust your hunt if you are hunting that close to the road. Sorry, them's the brakes. If you are blocking a road I'm going around. Sorry, I just don't think you have the right to restrict my movement on public land, for good or bad.
2. Drawing a bow. This is a much bigger issue then the blocking road discussion. I applaud the guy for getting the hell out and being cool headed. Other guy is lucky he didn't get killed for his actions.
:yeah:
I'M HAVING A VERY HARD TIME KEEPING TRACK OF THIS THREAD. 11 PAGES WOW.
Post by: dirty24d on December 08, 2010, 02:01:28 PM
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
:yeah:
:tdown: :tdown: Wrong... Wrong... :tdown: :tdown:
I dont care how you supposedly do at the hancock farms nobody has a right to block a road period.. I'd either push your rig off the road or if i was feeling friendly I'd just lay on my horn for about 5 minutes straight to let you know you messed up. :)
Post by: h20hunter on December 08, 2010, 02:08:20 PM
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:08:40 PM
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
:yeah:
:tdown: :tdown: Wrong... Wrong... :tdown: :tdown:
I dont care how you supposedly do at the hancock farms nobody has a right to block a road period.. I'd either push your rig off the road or if i was feeling friendly I'd just lay on my horn for about 5 minutes straight to let you know you messed up. :)
So you would damage another persons property (malicious mischief) just to drive a loggin road which might not even go another 1/2 mile? Hmm lets see, if an officer was really hard pressed he could write a ticket for blocking the road $124. But your act of malicious mischief would earn you a trip to jail. And depending on the damage it is a felony.
And in all my years of law enforcement I never can remember an officer ticketing someone for blocking a small logging road. But we definitely did take people to jail who pushed those blocking vehicles so they could drive another mile if that.
Post by: dirty24d on December 08, 2010, 02:15:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 08, 2010, 02:16:33 PM
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
:yeah:
:tdown: :tdown: Wrong... Wrong... :tdown: :tdown:
I dont care how you supposedly do at the hancock farms nobody has a right to block a road period.. I'd either push your rig off the road or if i was feeling friendly I'd just lay on my horn for about 5 minutes straight to let you know you messed up. :)
Why would you be so desperate to drive down a road that other hunters have already walked down and are hunting already? Why not find another spot? How much luck will you really have when you're right behind somebody else? And then to drive in so the elk can hear your vehicle? What are the chances of the elk waiting around for you to shoot them? I just don't understand why some people feel it's so important to drive the last 200 yards of a dead end logging road? If the other hunters were able to walk in, you can too. But still I think you'd be better off going elsewhere and finding another spot that isn't already being hunted. :twocents:
Post by: h20hunter on December 08, 2010, 02:18:17 PM
Still, you simply don't have the "right" to block the road. Simple.
Post by: dirty24d on December 08, 2010, 02:20:26 PM
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
:yeah:
:tdown: :tdown: Wrong... Wrong... :tdown: :tdown:
I dont care how you supposedly do at the hancock farms nobody has a right to block a road period.. I'd either push your rig off the road or if i was feeling friendly I'd just lay on my horn for about 5 minutes straight to let you know you messed up. :)
Why would you be so desperate to drive down a road that other hunters have already walked down and are hunting already? Why not find another spot? How much luck will you really have when you're right behind somebody else? And then to drive in so the elk can hear your vehicle? What are the chances of the elk waiting around for you to shoot them? I just don't understand why some people feel it's so important to drive the last 200 yards of a dead end logging road? If the other hunters were able to walk in, you can too. But still I think you'd be better off going elsewhere and finding another spot that isn't already being hunted. :twocents:
I agree bobcat .. The topic just frustrates me...
Post by: Bob33 on December 08, 2010, 02:20:59 PM
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:22:14 PM
:'( :'( :'( Like I said depending on the circumstance I might just lay on the horn for awhile to ensure you know your efforts have been noticed. I've never had an issue with it, nor is there an area I need to drive into that badly, but but given the situation I'd make sure you knew what you did was wrong.. :)
And by laying on your horn you put yourself in jeopardy of two other crimes. 1- Most counties have laws in regards to excessive noise, in which long use of vehicle horns is included. 2-Obstructing the taking of wildlife which is essentially harassing or disturbing wildlife with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof or harasses, intimidates, or interferes with an individual engaged in the lawful taking of wildlife with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof.
There have been cases where people layed on their horns for long period of time and were successfully prosecuted under both crimes. #2 is punishable by up to $5,000 and a year in jail.
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:23:31 PM
3) You should not have driven around him to get to the end of dead end spur
:yeah:
:tdown: :tdown: Wrong... Wrong... :tdown: :tdown:
I dont care how you supposedly do at the hancock farms nobody has a right to block a road period.. I'd either push your rig off the road or if i was feeling friendly I'd just lay on my horn for about 5 minutes straight to let you know you messed up. :)
Why would you be so desperate to drive down a road that other hunters have already walked down and are hunting already? Why not find another spot? How much luck will you really have when you're right behind somebody else? And then to drive in so the elk can hear your vehicle? What are the chances of the elk waiting around for you to shoot them? I just don't understand why some people feel it's so important to drive the last 200 yards of a dead end logging road? If the other hunters were able to walk in, you can too. But still I think you'd be better off going elsewhere and finding another spot that isn't already being hunted. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: h20hunter on December 08, 2010, 02:24:27 PM
Still......why does somebody have the "right" to block the road.
At least everyone agrees you shouldn't draw and point your bow at anybody.
Post by: TheHunt on December 08, 2010, 02:34:48 PM
Where I hunt (one of the Hancock Farms) people block roads all the time. Nobody complains about it because kind of the accepted way on the farm. If you want a good spot then wake your ass up at 4AM and get to your spot before dark, and block the road. It's amazing how many people get to the place they want to hunt right at daylight and get pissed because somebody is already there. These roads that people block are usually near the end of a logging road in a clear cut, not some main road. Blocking logging roads to secure your hunting area is the way we do it on this Hancock Farm at least. And guess what, it's usually the guys who get to their spot 1 - 1.5 hour before daylight who get their animal, not the guy who is just coming thru the gate as the sun is rising and racing to "their spot".
BigTex... I only saw one person blocking a road on Kapowsin tree farm this year. I turned him in of course. If I see that I will be calling Clyde. I would bet Clyde does not patrol the tree fram you hunt. But you really do not have to worry too much as most people drive roads in the tree farm in the first place.
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:35:52 PM
Where I hunt (one of the Hancock Farms) people block roads all the time. Nobody complains about it because kind of the accepted way on the farm. If you want a good spot then wake your ass up at 4AM and get to your spot before dark, and block the road. It's amazing how many people get to the place they want to hunt right at daylight and get pissed because somebody is already there. These roads that people block are usually near the end of a logging road in a clear cut, not some main road. Blocking logging roads to secure your hunting area is the way we do it on this Hancock Farm at least. And guess what, it's usually the guys who get to their spot 1 - 1.5 hour before daylight who get their animal, not the guy who is just coming thru the gate as the sun is rising and racing to "their spot".
BigTex... I only saw one person blocking a road on Kapowsin tree farm this year. I turned him in of course. If I see that I will be calling Clyde. I would bet Clyde does not patrol the tree fram you hunt. But you really do not have to worry too much as most people drive roads in the tree farm in the first place
Not Kapowsin. And no Clyde does not patrol this particular farm.
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:42:55 PM
I wonder what someone who blocked a vehicle in on a road thus preventing a sick or injured person from obtaining help could be charged with. Could they be prosecuted under depraved indifference? The intent is there to restrict access. Serious question, what is the max that an ambitious prosecutor go likely get?
I had a feeling this would come up. Well the crime the individual would most likely be charged with is trespassing. A violation of a landowners rule can be prosecuted under the trespass law. Most timber companies have regulations that state you cannot block roads. The individual would probably have a more severe sentence then someone just simply on someone elses property. I know of one case where this actually happened and this is how it was dealt with.
Post by: rasbo on December 08, 2010, 02:48:45 PM
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:54:47 PM
Some of the cases I was thinking of involved things such as people blocking easements between buildings. It seemed fine at the time until there was a fire and the fire truck couldn't get in between the buildings (which the building code said was to allow X-number of feet between structures). Make a long story short the fire truck couldn't get there and the hydrant was obscured.....buildings burned and people died. Or they guy that chained his fire exit shut due to thieves sneaking in, and his employees burned. I think there was a school shooting in which students couldn't get out because an exit was blocked to prevent truancy.
I think a big difference in the fire case you listed and a logging road incident is that there was no way a fire truck can get in there. Whereas a fire truck/ambulance could easily push/tow a vehicle blocking a logging road in order to get to a patient.
Post by: Curly on December 08, 2010, 02:57:42 PM
Why would you be so desperate to drive down a road that other hunters have already walked down and are hunting already? Why not find another spot? How much luck will you really have when you're right behind somebody else? And then to drive in so the elk can hear your vehicle? What are the chances of the elk waiting around for you to shoot them? I just don't understand why some people feel it's so important to drive the last 200 yards of a dead end logging road? If the other hunters were able to walk in, you can too. But still I think you'd be better off going elsewhere and finding another spot that isn't already being hunted. :twocents:
:yeah:
And another thing........the guys that drew the bow back at the OP apparently did not block the road anyway because the OP drove around their truck. :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 02:57:52 PM
there has to be some law on blocking access and egress on roads,just like blocking an intersection...but that's not here or there is it...common courtesy don't block roads and don't step on somebodies hunt,know the road system
Most timber companies do have rules against blocking roads. It can enforced under the trepass law. But if your a WDFW officer patrolling what is a better use of your time, making sure people tag their animals, don't have loaded guns, shoot from trucks, responding to other poaching calls, etc. Or some guy blocking a logging road that only goes a mile farther? Especially considering most prosecutors don't give any importance to trespassing, let alone a trespassing case that is simply a guy blocking a road.
Post by: dirty24d on December 08, 2010, 02:59:30 PM
Who's going to be the material witness that testifies i was laying on my horn? :dunno: Mr. Chipmunk ?? The first thing that comes to mind for me when i see a vehicle blocking a road is that there is illegal activities taking place further past the road block. You can flex your you cant do this, you cant do that or you'll get this penalty muscles all you want it doesnt make blocking the road acceptable to me at all.
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 03:01:46 PM
Thanks bigtex,
I was curious, because I've had to talk people out of pulling a blocking vehicle or cutting down a tree behind their car or whatever. These were some of the things that I was thinking of. So best course of action I guess is getting a picture with a license plate?
Yup. Picture with license plates work the best, maybe even a couple different angles of the vehicle and the situation.
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 03:03:42 PM
:bs:
Who's going to be the material witness that testifies i was laying on my horn? :dunno: Mr. Chipmunk ?? The first thing that comes to mind for me when i see a vehicle blocking a road is that there is illegal activities taking place further past the road block. You can flex your you cant do this, you cant do that or you'll get this penalty muscles all you want it doesnt make blocking the road acceptable to me at all.
I was just simply telling you the laws. If you have a problem with them then contact your legislator. And nowhere did I say that blocking the road is acceptable, I said your actions in response to a blocked road are far more criminal and carry stiffer penalties then simply blocking a road.
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 08, 2010, 03:05:02 PM
If you are driving down a road and see that its blocked and you drive around that road block, you have already made a conscience decision there could be conflict upon reaching those who blocked the road. You arrive at the location and contront the offending individual/s. This case two of them one of you. Heated discussion takes place, one of the two draw down on you----you leave hastily! From a legal perspective you dont stand a chance in court. First off, its two against one. Who drew first will be the key to who is guilty of what. Second, by drving around the vehicle you made a conscience decision to confront those offending individual/s. Freedom of speech allows this to happen but when you throw in weapon play its a whole new ball game. If Sportsman reacted in self defense the legal rangle of his actions would probably bankrupt him for life and he would probably still end up in jail.
The best course of action, walk away or run when you can. If you shoot, stabilize the situation as quick as possible and get a LEO on scene ASAP!
I carry when I hunt and yes its for self protection. I wouldnt hesitate a second to use it if necessary, hesitation will get you killed. Just the same, I dont go looking for trouble with someone who is already carrying a weapon.
Sportsman did the right thing in walking away, he did the wrong thing confronting the two offending individuals on their turf. :twocents:
I dont agree with blocking roads just the same I wont drive around someone who is blocking the road. Ill hunt elseware and live to eat by tag soup chased with scotch!
Post by: dirty24d on December 08, 2010, 03:05:45 PM
Post by: h20hunter on December 08, 2010, 03:12:26 PM
Post by: chester on December 08, 2010, 04:03:43 PM
Chester....
Does Weyerhauser approve of you blocking their road? Does the Dept of Wildlife approve of you blocking the road so they cannot patrol the area.... Or do they just figure since it is you hunting, they can F themselves?
Blocking a road is wrong. You could block someone in that you do not know is there. You claim that driving in will mess it up? So the guys in the white yota must not have driven to the end of the road..... How did they know that nobody was ahead of them?
You need a drivers ed refresher course. If I wasn't such a nice guy and some *censored* blocked me like that, I would wrap his yota with a tow strap and barrel roll him out of the way.
I cannot believe the guys on here willing to spout their unwritten rules of the woods which place themselves above everybody else, which take claim to the wildlife, and are the demise of common courtesy that hunters used to have. :bash:
Wow Ice. Did I get on your bad side? :chuckle: Where did i state that I block roads? I dont. if there isnt a turnout ill do the half on, half off thing. (one side pulled into the ditch) No i dont outright block them. I leave enough room for anyone to get around incase of emergency, someone is already down the road, or i happen to tag out and i call a buddy to come help me without me walking back to the truck.No complaints from weyco or the wdfw about my parking yet. so dont know what to tell ya?
the guys in the yota? well according to the OP he and them were the only ones in there at the time. maybe they took an educated guess?
So you would respond to the crime of trespassing by destroying someones vehicle? you might just be heated. im hoping thats not the case. im gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Ice you know i try to help people and give advice yourself included. my advice is dont make a big deal out of something so minor. its a big area. there are other animals. instead of making a mountain out of a mole hill and making a confrontation. why not focus on finding some animals so you can fill your tag.instead of trying to make sure someone else doesnt fill theres.
why are people getting so butthurt over being late to the party? seriously if it frustrates you that much GET UP AND GET THERE FIRST. Its a really simple solution.
those unwritten rules are called manners. common courtesy would be to not try in drive in on someones hunt. how is that such a hard concept? I dont block roads. but if my truck is there it should be apparent that im in there hunting. and to drive in on me is complete bs. if you want the spot get your ass out of bed and get there before me and i will leave you to it. So know we are supposed to write a manual on common sense? is that the only way some people will understand it? If its not in print it doesnt apply?
as far a people placing themselves above others? well id put a guy who would be happy for someone elses success and let them have a shot at it way above someone who is out for themselves and needs to be a dick just because it isnt outlawed yet. :bash:
Post by: 44 Flattop on December 08, 2010, 06:36:02 PM
This particular year I have picked up more TRASH in the hills behind my house (which butts up to timberlands), no roads or trails, just cross country than any time since I've lived here. This is just what I've been able to run across when hiking/hunting in the woods, and I bet it isn't 10% of what is there, I've picked up nearly a full garbage bag of candy wrappers, pop cans, sandwhich bags, etc. This is just what hunters decide to throw down after they've sat down and had a snack and didn't have the decency to put it back in their pack or pockets. A lot of the pop cans are stuck on limbs or brush as I guess it looks cute to sissy (insert much nastier word to understand my anger) hunters. >:(
As far as I'm concerned if the trash tossing doesn't stop you can all stay home. :dunno:
Or go somewhere else. That'll solve all the problems brought up as far as I'm concerned.
44
Post by: DBake on December 08, 2010, 06:36:16 PM
...i personally turn around if i see guys walking a dead end road.or if theres a rig parked at a road that ends.they were there first let em have it.theres plenty of area to look at......:yeah:
Post by: DBake on December 08, 2010, 06:44:47 PM
This type of thing is why permit-only elk hunting would be a good idea in this state.
Make it all permit.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 08, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
None of us really know what the other guys are ever up to. A vehicle blocking could be broken down. It sounded like the white Toyota was driving in, found game, and decided to keep them to themselves. I bet they didn't even know if anyone else was further in the road. When they decided to claim the elk, they had no idea that others may have already been pursing the herd, possibly after a wounded animal. They assumed everything it sounds like.
I only hope that guys who do this behavior understand that it is they who are violating the norm. A civil society would have looked a lot different that day. They would have parked to the side, then pursued their game. If another hunter came along, the original guys would not have threatened him. They may have had a word with him, but no threats, no weapons. This land is my land, this land is your land... This is America last time I checked.
Post by: gasman on December 08, 2010, 07:04:17 PM
Post by: LittleJohn on December 08, 2010, 07:06:10 PM
I did not realise how many A$$hats are on this site :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike:
WELL SAID :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on December 08, 2010, 07:11:45 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: ICEMAN on December 08, 2010, 07:12:20 PM
Post by: gasman on December 08, 2010, 07:25:32 PM
I think this thread is done :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: elksnout on December 08, 2010, 07:28:36 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on December 08, 2010, 07:30:39 PM
Well, I live up Winston Creek. Here is my :twocents:
This particular year I have picked up more TRASH in the hills behind my house (which butts up to timberlands), no roads or trails, just cross country than any time since I've lived here. This is just what I've been able to run across when hiking/hunting in the woods, and I bet it isn't 10% of what is there, I've picked up nearly a full garbage bag of candy wrappers, pop cans, sandwhich bags, etc. This is just what hunters decide to throw down after they've sat down and had a snack and didn't have the decency to put it back in their pack or pockets. A lot of the pop cans are stuck on limbs or brush as I guess it looks cute to sissy (insert much nastier word to understand my anger) hunters. >:(
As far as I'm concerned if the trash tossing doesn't stop you can all stay home. :dunno:
Or go somewhere else. That'll solve all the problems brought up as far as I'm concerned.
44
I doubt much of it was hunters. More likely brush pickers. They like to use bottles and cans like we use surveyors ribbon.
Post by: gasman on December 08, 2010, 07:32:05 PM
With all the crap posted on here about the Winston unit I do not understand why anyone bothers to hunt there. Might be just me, but ain't no elk worth all that crap. Geez guys......
Now we know why it's F"ed up :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Post by: bobcat on December 08, 2010, 07:33:39 PM
With all the crap posted on here about the Winston unit I do not understand why anyone bothers to hunt there. Might be just me, but ain't no elk worth all that crap. Geez guys......
Now we know why it's F"ed up :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Why is it ???
Post by: gasman on December 08, 2010, 07:54:57 PM
With all the crap posted on here about the Winston unit I do not understand why anyone bothers to hunt there. Might be just me, but ain't no elk worth all that crap. Geez guys......
Now we know why it's F"ed up :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Why is it ???
Lack of respect for others hunters, there hunt, there property, the "I was right you are wrong", threatening others, confronting others with intent to ruen there hunt, blocking roads so others are not allowed to hunt cause you were there first. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Did I miss any thing :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on December 08, 2010, 08:05:15 PM
I didn't see anybody totally blocking roads where I was hunting. What I did see was vehicles parked back a ways from the end of spur roads that ended on landings in clearcuts. Normally the vehicle would be parked at least halfway off the road, so that if a person really wanted to get around, you could. And I see nothing wrong with that. These are roads that would only go another 1/4 mile or so. There's no point in driving right out on top of the elk. This was an area where there really isn't anywhere you can walk without walking on a road. So it's not like you can park somewhere and walk two miles to get away from the roads and all the other hunters. The roads were everywhere, but so were the elk.
Post by: remington300mag on December 08, 2010, 08:07:46 PM
Post by: ELKHOG on December 08, 2010, 08:08:37 PM
Someone commented that you should get there early - there was no "early" because this happened at 4:00 p.m. in the day - the roads were closed and we waited for "wood security" to open the roads. That was the most horrible sound to hear on a radio that someone was taking aim at your son - and all for a hunt that no one should have been in on at that time. We were the first ones in - only to find out that these guys had already been in there for more than 2 hours prior.
And further more - it's not like they blocked a small road - it was a "major road" with many turn outs on it that did eventually dead end. When did it become okay to block a road - any road? And we know the road systems up there, we've hunted up there for more than 30+ years - our preference is to have the gates locked so that we can walk or bike in but that's out of our control and only up to Weyerhauser - we also heard that many gates were torn out and that only comes back to hurt everyone. If everybody would just abide by the rules we may get to continue to hunt up there but it's people like this that hurts the honest hunter. We knew on that day how far we could drive in without spooking the elk - obviously these guys didn't know anything about their surroundings and just took it upon themselves to block a road.
It's disappointing that archery season has almost become a replica of modern rifle season with a bunch of a-holes and on this incident these were guys that never had hunted in this area before. It's one thing to argue over something but it's entirely different when somebody draws a weapon - obviously they have no boundaries or morales - they just took it to a different level!!
I am proud of my son for having the forethought and courage to back out of a dangerous situation that could have proven deadly - he could have easily drawn a bigger weapon on them but chose to back out and drive away, as a good sportsmen would do. I only hope that these guys have learned an important lesson! Our family puts up a big camp each year and now I only hope that my son hasn't become so discouraged by these jerks that he will continue to hunt with us again.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 08, 2010, 08:13:35 PM
Post by: Lightning_Rider on December 08, 2010, 08:14:58 PM
Post by: 44 Flattop on December 08, 2010, 08:31:19 PM
I doubt much of it was hunters. More likely brush pickers. They like to use bottles and cans like we use surveyors ribbon.Nope, no one is back there with the exception of me for about 275 days of the year. 90 days later when season is closed, garbage is everywhere. Those 275 days per year find me back in the woods hiking almost every day. 3 years ago I saw a State guy doing some surveying, other than that, just me.
44
Post by: bigtex on December 08, 2010, 08:53:35 PM
I doubt much of it was hunters. More likely brush pickers. They like to use bottles and cans like we use surveyors ribbon.Nope, no one is back there with the exception of me for about 275 days of the year. 90 days later when season is closed, garbage is everywhere. Those 275 days per year find me back in the woods hiking almost every day. 3 years ago I saw a State guy doing some surveying, other than that, just me.
44
I think its common for people to think it is not their user group that trash an area. Fishermen don't think fishermen trash fishing areas, hunters don't think hunters trash hunting areas. Brush pickers, partiers, and youth are often the ones who take the blunt of the blame. But in reality all user groups have their bad apples.
For example in 2007 I talked to a legendary WDFW Officer on Port Blakely land in Lewis County. Port Blakely doesn't allow fires and ATV's. This officer said he could work the entire hunting season and only enforce the no fires and ATV's and write 2-4 times the amount of tickets that he would if he was simply working hunting regulation enforcement. Do all hunters do this type of damage (litter, fires, atv's)? No, but the ones who do ruin it all for the res of us.
Oh ya, the land this officer was on, is now closed for all vehicle access because of the fire, atv, and littering issue.
Post by: Basket Rack on December 08, 2010, 08:57:54 PM
Post by: rasbo on December 08, 2010, 08:59:00 PM
yes they do make a mess..But has anyone seen how blue creek,the carbon river looks during a fish run?The ass wipe left all over the roads by hunters...Its an individual thing some people are just pigs
Post by: 44 Flattop on December 08, 2010, 09:18:12 PM
Boy this thread has amazed me at what people will do to kill an elk. Blocking roads, verbal threats, pulling weapons on other hunters this is absolutely ridiculous. It seems that some people will do just about anything to get an elkI've always said there is something 'wrong' about elk hunters. Not to get anyones panties in a bunch however, I'm an elk hunter also. But something gets 'switched' inside elk hunters heads somehow, sometimes. I once was hiking into Snowgrass Flats during elk season with my brother who was home from cutting timber in Alaska. It just turned out to be elk season when he could be here. As we are hiking up the trail there was a burst of gunfire followed by sporatic shooting. When we got around the trail we find a fellow in the trail shooting at least 1000 yards up the hill at a herd of elk, offhand. We needed to get around him to go where we were headed and all the sudden he notices us coming toward him and swings his rifle around and points it at us, butt against his shoulder, finger on the trigger. He starts screaming at us "those elk are mine, those elk are mine, you get the h*ll out of here or I'll kill you." He didn't even seem to notice that we didn't even have a rifle with us. You want to see something frightening? Just look into the eyes of someone who is out of their mind with what I call 'elk sickness'. They just ain't right upstairs. We turned around and got the heck outta there, though we went down the hill and went around the guy and back up to the trail to get to where we were going. I've never forgotten that guy and a few others in later years similiar that started me putting elk hunters into their own catagory in my mind.
44
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on December 08, 2010, 09:21:47 PM
Post by: 44 Flattop on December 08, 2010, 09:28:13 PM
By the sounds of the way he was shooting, the safest thing you could of done was stand still and present the biggest target. :chuckle: :chuckle::chuckle: :chuckle: Now that is FUNNY! Somehow even after all these years, that thought just somehow never struck me..... :o
44
Post by: funkster on December 08, 2010, 11:26:31 PM
With that said every gate was open,even the gates that are usually never open. I know the 1108 very well and it is a dead end road,with how many rigs where down there and how many guys where trolling every road, even overgrown old grassy spurs, I see nothing wrong with parking in a manor that lets another hunter know you are trying to "walk in hunt" down that dead end road. There are so many lazy hunter's that ruin hunts for the guys that like to put miles on their boots instead of their trucks. This actually gives you a chance at hunting the elk instead of scaring the elk with your diesel truck that you can hear from 2 miles away. The funny thing is they always ask you "did you see those elk" as the elk run away.
I have said it 1000 times and will say it again, CLOSE ALL THE GATES like in early season and most of thees problems end. The hunting is so much better and the elk are a lot lest stressed. They could easily make a rule that all red arrow roads are walk in only hunting if they have to open the gates but most guys wouldn't follow it anyways :twocents:
Post by: GHETTO GUIDE on December 09, 2010, 12:16:45 AM
Welcome to the ENTITLEMENT GENERATION OF PEOPLE. They feel its their right to drive to the end of the ( dead end) road even if you are already parked back a bit and stalking in. When did this become accepted ?? If you know the elk / animals are there and want to hunt here, then park your truck and walk in too. Nothing worse than having some one drive up your back, when you parked back a bit, trying not to scare animals away, and they follow you down the road in their truck ..... because its "their right",. Yes I understand its public land but where did this "its my right" attitude come from? Yes if its a main line then you should have not blocked it
I dont do much road hunting so not much of an issue to me.
I guess we (my hunting community) were raised different. Hunting with morals and ethics and a code of conduct in the woods.
Common people we arent F-ING starving . This is suppose to be fun.
Post by: Band on December 09, 2010, 08:50:54 AM
Nope, no one is back there with the exception of me for about 275 days of the year. 90 days later when season is closed, garbage is everywhere. Those 275 days per year find me back in the woods hiking almost every day. 3 years ago I saw a State guy doing some surveying, other than that, just me.I detest litter and a lot of people continue to do it, including hunters. For my own sanity I had to back out of a group of hunter friends a few years ago because they refused to stop littering and it ended friendships. For the life of me I can't figure out why someone would be so callous as to throw their garbage on the ground rather than pack it out of the woods and put it in the trash can where it belongs. And don't get me started on people who throw cigarette butts out the window of their car and the additional fire hazard that poses! Have some respect and common sense! :bash:
44
I'm not a private land owner but if I were and I allowed access to the public I would close it down immediately and permanently if someone threw their litter on my property. I'm amazed that private timber companies and the like put up with that BS all the time and still allow access to the public.
Flattop, if you ever decide to make a garbage run out in the woods let me know and I would be happy to bring a bag and help out for a day.
Post by: howlow on December 09, 2010, 09:13:12 AM
Oh I see. Honestly I really don't believe it's all that bad out there. Other than the fact that there ARE too many hunters for the number of elk available to hunt. But going to permit only would solve that problem.
I didn't see anybody totally blocking roads where I was hunting. What I did see was vehicles parked back a ways from the end of spur roads that ended on landings in clearcuts. Normally the vehicle would be parked at least halfway off the road, so that if a person really wanted to get around, you could. And I see nothing wrong with that. These are roads that would only go another 1/4 mile or so. There's no point in driving right out on top of the elk. This was an area where there really isn't anywhere you can walk without walking on a road. So it's not like you can park somewhere and walk two miles to get away from the roads and all the other hunters. The roads were everywhere, but so were the elk.
This state will never go to permit only. This state is for money for them. They sell more license than permits. I propose the up the permit price to cover the loss of tag sales!!!
Post by: GEARHEAD on December 09, 2010, 10:10:36 AM
Post by: Angus on December 09, 2010, 12:04:53 PM
A buddy of mine had a rifle put in his face and was told to get lost while gutting HIS elk in the Manastash about 15 years ago. Another buddy, hunting near Forks came back to his rig with 4 slashed tires, no idea why, anti's? maybe, or maybe he beat another hunter/A-hole to "his" spot?
Fishing is the same thing, I never considered packing until about the last 5 years or so, now I don't leave home without "my little friend".
Sad that things have come to this, but thats hunting/fishing in an over-crowded state. :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on December 09, 2010, 12:07:24 PM
Anyone who thinks this kind of crap only happens in the Winston unit are fools, happens everywhere.
A buddy of mine had a rifle put in his face and was told to get lost while gutting HIS elk in the Manastash about 15 years ago. Another buddy, hunting near Forks came back to his rig with 4 slashed tires, no idea why, anti's? maybe, or maybe he beat another hunter/A-hole to "his" spot?
:yeah:
People blocking roads happens in every unit in this state.
Post by: Bob33 on December 09, 2010, 12:19:19 PM
• Everyone on this site is either stupid, an A hole, or both.
• Blocking roads is acceptable sometimes, but in other instances it is not.
• Elk hunters are inconsiderate slobs that litter and shoot up gates and signs.
• Interfering in another hunter’s stalk is cause for drawing a deadly weapon.
It’s a good thing that we have such a large percentage of our state’s population that hunts, otherwise one might consider hunting a threatened activity.
Post by: 44 Flattop on December 09, 2010, 02:35:31 PM
Flattop, if you ever decide to make a garbage run out in the woods let me know and I would be happy to bring a bag and help out for a day.Sonuvagun, Band :o :o That is an awfully nice offer. I'm very VERY glad to see someone else feels the same way about litter that I do. I sometimes get thinking that me and my son are the last ones, at times.
I usually take my backpack along with a garbage bag in it when I am taking a few guns for a walk...er...trying to get some exercise. Over a period of time I eventually get the handle on it.
If it looks like I am unable to get 'er all cleaned up, be forewarned, I WILL let you know! Thanks again :)
44
Post by: halflife65 on December 09, 2010, 03:42:49 PM
Here’s what someone reading this thread might conclude:
• Everyone on this site is either stupid, an A hole, or both.
• Blocking roads is acceptable sometimes, but in other instances it is not.
• Elk hunters are inconsiderate slobs that litter and shoot up gates and signs.
• Interfering in another hunter’s stalk is cause for drawing a deadly weapon.
It’s a good thing that we have such a large percentage of our state’s population that hunts, otherwise one might consider hunting a threatened activity.
Great observation.
Post by: billythekidrock on December 09, 2010, 05:44:37 PM
I doubt much of it was hunters. More likely brush pickers. They like to use bottles and cans like we use surveyors ribbon.Nope, no one is back there with the exception of me for about 275 days of the year. 90 days later when season is closed, garbage is everywhere. Those 275 days per year find me back in the woods hiking almost every day. 3 years ago I saw a State guy doing some surveying, other than that, just me.
44
If I had a dollar for everytime I thought I was the only one using an area.
Post by: h2ofowlr on December 09, 2010, 08:41:49 PM
Post by: Thenewguy on December 09, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
With all the crap posted on here about the Winston unit I do not understand why anyone bothers to hunt there. Might be just me, but ain't no elk worth all that crap. Geez guys......
nothing close to roads is much better
Post by: wonder on December 10, 2010, 09:15:05 AM
I will be vey curious to see what happens next. 2 on 1 with no witnesses for the victim. Smoke and mirrors please
Post by: GHETTO GUIDE on December 10, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
Update please?
Post by: bobcat on December 10, 2010, 12:18:16 PM
Post by: Glockster on December 10, 2010, 01:04:01 PM
~ Elk and Goose hunting seems to make people loose their common sense and makes those who are tempted cut corners to make kills. Gotta kill so I can post it on the internet. :IBCOOL:
~ Since archery seasons have been whittled down to relatively few units and shorter time frames the crowding makes for some 'interesting' situations.
~ Generation ME in action: competitive , rude, confrontational, inconsiderate, and dangerous.
Post by: chester on December 10, 2010, 01:36:15 PM
What ever happened to duking it out like in the good ol days ?
He wouldnt get out of the truck.
Post by: salmonslayer1 on December 10, 2010, 04:30:33 PM
:yeah: :beatdeadhorse: :boxin:What ever happened to duking it out like in the good ol days ?
He wouldnt get out of the truck.
Post by: Chesapeake on December 10, 2010, 05:56:48 PM
Seems to me both parties took things too far, and showed thier bad sides.
Yeah, its bad to block roads, but in this case I believe it was fairly obvious the intent of the hunters was to prevent thier stalk from being ruined. To say that if they would have parked off the side you would have respected that and not driven in, yet the vehicle across the road gave the same signal and you drove around.
Two wrongs dont make a right. Its not like guys carry around signs that say "I'm actively stalking elk, please dont drive out to the landing and ruin my stalk" in thier trucks to place in the road.
Yes I'm fully against habitual road blocking, or blocking a road just to keep others out while you go hunt, ect....... But I would understand a guy doing a short term road block just to facilitate an active stalk on spotted animals. As well as I would respect a guy standing in a road asking the same of me while his budies actively stalked animals.
The part of them drawing down on you is also BS to a much larger degree. Thier lucky you are some what cool headed. I cant say a threat on my life would go unanswered like the one on your life did.
Post by: bobcat on December 10, 2010, 06:04:38 PM
Post by: seth30 on December 10, 2010, 06:08:16 PM
Post by: stlhdr1 on December 10, 2010, 06:49:40 PM
Keith
Post by: ELKHOG on December 10, 2010, 08:40:51 PM
People like that only make a bad name for sportsmen.
I stand by what I said earlier - I am proud of him and he was smart to just back out and drive away - that was the smarter person. Why should they get the respect of the hunt when they broke the rules? What gives them the right to go around a closed area - the signs were clear. They deserved to get their hunt ruined. In fact they deserved a lot more but at least they didn't get an elk. 8)
Post by: chester on December 10, 2010, 08:50:50 PM
In reply to the guy who said "to get out of the truck" or the guy who said something about duking it out - obviously these guys hunt the same way as those who blocked the road. And duking it out probably wouldn't have been a good idea unless they wanted to be met with a 40 SW in hand. The bottom line is that you don't block a road! People like this don't play fair - they're cheaters, they're guys who don't obey the rules of the woods, they're disrespectful a-holes. :bdid:
People like that only make a bad name for sportsmen.
I stand by what I said earlier - I am proud of him and he was smart to just back out and drive away - that was the smarter person. Why should they get the respect of the hunt when they broke the rules? What gives them the right to go around a closed area - the signs were clear. They deserved to get their hunt ruined. In fact they deserved a lot more but at least they didn't get an elk. 8)
Your trying to say others make a bad name? you would be the guy to blow someones stalk then go up and talk crap. when they got pissed you would probably hide behind your gun. looking for a way to make it worse eh? If they are breaking the rules. its not your job to go confront them. going up with the intention of a confrontation. then resorting to a weapon. you kinda sound like a punk. dont talk it if you cant back it up. your no better then the guys who drew the bow in that case. big diff between a fist fight and assault w/ a deadly weapon. If it were me rifle hunting. and some guy came up there would be words. if you continued i would very clearly lay my rifle down on a stump and ask you to step out if you have that attitude. then what? you gonna pull your .40 on an unarmed man? your attitude sucks.
Post by: Tony 270 on December 10, 2010, 09:12:14 PM
..when they got pissed you would probably hide behind your gun. looking for a way to make it worse eh? If they are breaking the rules. its not your job to go confront them. going up with the intention of a confrontation. then resorting to a weapon. you kinda sound like a punk. dont talk it if you cant back it up. your no better then the guys who drew the bow in that case. big diff between a fist fight and assault w/ a deadly weapon. If it were me rifle hunting. and some guy came up there would be words. if you continued i would very clearly lay my rifle down on a stump and ask you to step out if you have that attitude. then what? you gonna pull your .40 on an unarmed man? your attitude sucks.
When they get pissed you hide behind your gun? Difference between getting pissed and someone threatening injury/death with a weapon. In that case I sure as hell would have pulled my gun just in case.
They resorted to the weapon, not the OP.
A punk is someone who gets a weapon pulled on them? Ummm... whatever.
I'm sure we've all had someone drive up on us, behind open or locked gates. Do you threaten everyone every time? And this other guy is the punk?
And is a bad idea to get into a fight whether or not the person puts their weapon down. Known too many who either have friends jump in once they start getting their ass whooped or would resort to grabbing a weapon once they started getting their ass whooped. Either way, not a good idea.
This thread is stupid. People who block roads are selfish pricks. If there is the chance of getting something, leave one person back behind to explain it to anyone who happens to be coming, don't block the road for anyone and everyone with your vehicle (unless the road is about to end very shortly and doesn't go on for miles or have intersections). Don't pull weapons on anyone, ever, unless your life is on the line and you are defending yourself and not your *censored* hunting grounds.
As for the OP, he should have stopped and left the area as soon as he saw the guys going after the elk rather than continuing and driving right up to them.
Post by: chester on December 10, 2010, 09:24:32 PM
Post by: GlennGTR on December 10, 2010, 09:31:12 PM
Post by: Tony 270 on December 10, 2010, 09:32:25 PM
But to say they deserved to get their hunt blown is messed up. I'd be pissed, but wouldn't draw my weapon over it.
Like I said, this thread is stupid ;) (just my :twocents:)
Post by: ashersdad on December 10, 2010, 09:40:06 PM
Post by: Tony 270 on December 10, 2010, 09:47:14 PM
Welcome to the site. And not all of our threads are like this one :chuckle:
Post by: ashersdad on December 10, 2010, 09:51:52 PM
Post by: chester on December 10, 2010, 09:54:35 PM
Post by: bak2huntn on December 10, 2010, 10:02:02 PM
Post by: markts on December 11, 2010, 06:11:13 AM
Post by: BallisticsNut on December 11, 2010, 09:20:54 AM
:lol4:
Post by: sportsman002001 on December 11, 2010, 10:24:40 AM
There have been some good input here and some not so good. Yes, I know two wrongs don't make a right. Yes dick move on my part of driving around but after walking in all week and seeing people driving around and not obeying the signs it gets old. With that said, had I drove in and not seen their vehicle and seen two guys walking I would have not went any futher knowing that they had probably walked all day to be in there for the evening hunt. And that has happend to myself before I figured out weyco typically would allow people in around that last hour on Fridays. Would be walking in late for an evening hunt and have someone drive in but they would turn around.
Some people here said, "what happend to just getting out and duking it out." Well I don't believe fighting is the answer and that certainly would not have solved anything. I went into the situation knowing some words would be exchanged but a weapon the last thing I thought. And again fighting would not be the answer or nothing would be solved. Some brought up 4 flat tires to their truck. Vandalism would not have been the answer either. There are a few more but I think enough has been said here.
Some wonder why I have not committed for awhile. The thread got pretty disappointing towards the end and I was just wainting here to put up my final say and move on. I am sure I will here from the Sherriffs department but that is between us. I have had alot of time to think about this and I am sure the other 2 parties have had time to think about it too. I know this could of been handled differently but it is what it is. It is the past and we can all move on.
Thank you for all you gave their :twocents: and I do enjoy this site because you can get so many different views on stuff. Good hunting to all and we have to wait till next year.
Post by: guardian on December 11, 2010, 01:23:21 PM
Post by: LittleJohn on December 11, 2010, 01:59:45 PM
Post by: blackmouther on December 11, 2010, 08:58:53 PM
Post by: DTOM on December 12, 2010, 04:11:57 PM
Post by: charlesbearden1 on December 13, 2010, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: Yelm hunter on December 13, 2010, 01:54:29 AM
He was the FIRST one there get the hell out of there and find a different herd or just watch them. If you see a legal bull shoot it. SPOT AND STOCK... GET OUT OF YOUR TRUCK!! YOU CAN'T SHOOT INSIDE YOUR TRUCK ANYWAYS!!
WE ARE IN WASHINGTON....IT RAINS HERE... YOU HUNT HERE AND KNOW THAT IT RAINS...SO GO GET SOME RAIN GEAR AND GET OUT OF YOUR TRUCK AND TRY WALKING LIKE I DO AND ALOT OF OTHER HUNTERS!!
Post by: halflife65 on December 13, 2010, 06:01:36 AM
Post by: mack2255 on December 15, 2010, 09:08:23 PM
Post by: rasbo on December 16, 2010, 03:25:14 AM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on December 16, 2010, 05:39:59 AM
Post by: chester on December 16, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
wow its still going
:yeah: :dunno:
Post by: PolarBear on December 19, 2010, 05:15:45 AM
Post by: Tony 270 on December 19, 2010, 11:01:14 AM
Post by: mjbskwim on December 19, 2010, 11:13:37 AM
:yike: That is not a good thing. They are lucky they didnt get shot after pulling a weapon on you.
I'm pretty late to the party,but he would have had 45 holes thru him.
He threatened your life.Federal offense for pointing a deadly weapon at you.
Post by: salmonslayer1 on December 19, 2010, 12:47:23 PM
Anyone hear of the guy who drove up to some guys and had a bow drawn on him? Wonder what all that was about :chuckle::peep:
Post by: steen on December 19, 2010, 01:45:49 PM
Post by: BlackRidge on December 19, 2010, 02:22:35 PM
"Parked or standing vehicles may not block or impede traffic at gates or on roadways"
I have to assume they're using something similar, because that's just common sense. It being private property, who cares what these guys thought when they tried to block access to the area. I would have popped their tires on my way out...probably the only scenario where I ever would :twocents:
Post by: GHETTO GUIDE on December 19, 2010, 04:39:46 PM
Anyone hear of the guy who drove up to some guys and had a bow drawn on him? Wonder what all that was about :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :fishin: :fishin: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :stirthepot:
Post by: markts on December 19, 2010, 05:31:46 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 19, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Post by: mjbskwim on December 19, 2010, 08:13:00 PM
I'm not sure if this Weyerhauser property has the same rules as the Hancock folks do for the Snoqualmie TF, but according to their regs;
"Parked or standing vehicles may not block or impede traffic at gates or on roadways"
I have to assume they're using something similar, because that's just common sense. It being private property, who cares what these guys thought when they tried to block access to the area. I would have popped their tires on my way out...probably the only scenario where I ever would :twocents:
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:
Well,if a log truck would have come by,it would have been 1 honk and in the ditch for the little truck :guns: :guns: :guns: