Hunting Washington Forum
Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: gigharborguyjerry on June 07, 2011, 07:35:09 PM
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Today Cabela's announced they are building a new store on the Tulalip reservation. Read the press release here.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110606006784/en/Cabela%E2%80%99s-Announces-Plans-Store-Tulalip-Wash. (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110606006784/en/Cabela%E2%80%99s-Announces-Plans-Store-Tulalip-Wash.)
I can't believe that in a state where the tribes have screwed the fishermen and hunters that they would make a deal with the devil that we all despise. I have been a Cabela's buyer for years and will never spend a dime with them again. I also plan to write a certified letter to the company to make them aware of the mistake they have made. If you agree with me you should do the same.
Sportco, here I come with my Visa in hand. Hope all of you will join in this boycott.
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Cabelas is too expensive anyhow. I've found better places to spend my money a long time ago.
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I rarely spend any money at Cabelas. The only time I do is when the sale is so good I figure they are almost losing money. Like the $45 shirts I got for $18. And the $400 rifle scope I got for $180. And some $80 rain pants for $20. They do have some really good sales sometimes. But yeah, otherwise, you can almost always find things cheaper elsewhere.
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Today Cabela's announced they are building a new store on the Tulalip reservation. Read the press release here.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110606006784/en/Cabela%E2%80%99s-Announces-Plans-Store-Tulalip-Wash. (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110606006784/en/Cabela%E2%80%99s-Announces-Plans-Store-Tulalip-Wash.)
I can't believe that in a state where the tribes have screwed the fishermen and hunters that they would make a deal with the devil that we all despise. I have been a Cabela's buyer for years and will never spend a dime with them again. I also plan to write a certified letter to the company to make them aware of the mistake they have made. If you agree with me you should do the same.
Sportco, here I come with my Visa in hand. Hope all of you will join in this boycott.
very good point, i spend a lot of money at the formally know as sportsmans warehouse
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Ya i dont shop there unless i get a gift card. it is to exspensive, and over rated
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In the future it will be the wolves and the tribes running the state.
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Cabelas is too expensive anyhow. I've found better places to spend my money a long time ago.
:yeah:
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I'll be purchasing items there regardless. They only setup over there because its the only place within 50 miles that has the foot traffic and infrastructure to support their needs.
Im pumped i dont have to drive to lacey anymore!!
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I have yet to be to the cabela's in Lacey :'( :'( :'( But I have been to the one in Post Fall's :tup:
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"I can't believe that in a state where the tribes have screwed the fishermen and hunters that they would make a deal with the devil that we all despise."
A lot of businesses consider the state government as the devil they despise..."
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In the future it will be the wolves and the tribes running the state.
:yeah:
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Today Cabela's announced they are building a new store on the Tulalip reservation. Read the press release here.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110606006784/en/Cabela%E2%80%99s-Announces-Plans-Store-Tulalip-Wash. (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110606006784/en/Cabela%E2%80%99s-Announces-Plans-Store-Tulalip-Wash.)
I can't believe that in a state where the tribes have screwed the fishermen and hunters that they would make a deal with the devil that we all despise. I have been a Cabela's buyer for years and will never spend a dime with them again. I also plan to write a certified letter to the company to make them aware of the mistake they have made. If you agree with me you should do the same.
Sportco, here I come with my Visa in hand. Hope all of you will join in this boycott.
I like how you say the tribes screwed us...when in reality it was our own government that set forth the treaties with the sovereign nations. :DOH:
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Pretty sure it will provide a bunch of jobs for the local area that I live in. I will have no problem shopping there. Finally somewhere close to me to buy gear, I hate sitting in traffic while trying to drive to Seattle or Fife. Sorry dude, no boycott here.
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"I can't believe that in a state where the tribes have screwed the fishermen and hunters that they would make a deal with the devil that we all despise."
A lot of businesses consider the state government as the devil they despise..."
:yeah: Right you are good sir
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the state likes to have the general hunting community be pissed at the natives...sort of like divide and conquer since the natives contain a huge portion of hunters too.
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As long as they don't have GAMING TABLES ,SLOT MACHINES,SELL SMOKES OR GAS it should all be good Lots of new jobs for the locals :tup:
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We screwed the tribes, now they're screwing us harder.
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maybe i just don't get it , but the tribes brought you the illegal antelope,everybody was rooting for except the WA.state Vet. Hell I'd rather support a tribal casino, than any of the overpriced Cabelas retail stores I have been in. I shop Midway, and mid-south, don't need a stinking Cabelas
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I stayed away from cabelas because of price for several years now, and I will not support the tribes. As for antelope I would have rather seen the money spent on mule deer or sheep.
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I usually don't shop at Cabela's unless there having a good sale on stuff I need or if I have a gift card. To long of a drive for me to go spend that kind of money on stuff I can get for the same price or cheaper at closer stores. However them opening a building on a tribal reservation isn't going to make me stop shopping at cabela's all together.
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Pretty sure it will provide a bunch of jobs for the local area that I live in. I will have no problem shopping there. Finally somewhere close to me to buy gear, I hate sitting in traffic while trying to drive to Seattle or Fife. Sorry dude, no boycott here.
Me too. "Devil we all despise" ?? you don't speak for me. It was our government that made the treaties with the people that were here first, and rarely honored them.
Been a longtime since I bought anything from Cabela's, haven't needed too. But I will at least enjoy wandering the aisles there. Still kinda new to Everett, what are the options?
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Wow iam realy surprised to here all the bashing about cabelas !!! there priceing is not any hire than any one else out there, whole sale sports sucks, sportco is right behind them, and with midway usa there the worse. Midway never has anything in stock and is always on back order. Haveing cabelas opening a store in marysvile is a good thing, JOBS!!!!!!!!! which our state needs more than anything. I will spend my money there always.
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Has any store or business the size of Cabela's ever noticed a Boycott?
And why does this sites Spell Check still identify "Cabela's" as spelled wrong? :chuckle:
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And why does this sites Spell Check still identify "Cabela's" as spelled wrong?
Maybe because there is no apostrophe.
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As long as they don't have GAMING TABLES ,SLOT MACHINES,SELL SMOKES OR GAS it should all be good Lots of new jobs for the locals :tup:
Don't forget to take in effect of all the smaller shops that may go under now. The "Devil we all dispise" is all around. I'll still go but I'll only buy the cheap chit. :chuckle:
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I use the internet for buying stuff, it's a lot cheaper for the samethings Cabelas sells. Plus, no sales tax and free shipping on most items I buy.
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nothing beats being able to try on the things before you buy..Id love to be able to do that at cabelas...then buy it cheaper online :chuckle:
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i wish people would quit saying we screwed the indians over and that they were here first, i dont know anyone still alive that had anything to do with screwing the indians over, how long ago was that? i believe they have been very well taken care of for any miss doings in the past, its not anyones fault on here for what happened in the past, i believe they should do away with all reservations and casinos and make it all part of the state and goverment like anything else, that way everyone pays the same taxes and are treated the same, which is what everyone always harps on, being treated the same, as for cabelas, cant hardly stand the place, sportco and sportsmans warehouse always seem to have what i need to for a better price, hell half the stuff i can make or get at walmart for real cheap.
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Never been too thrilled about Cabelas coming to Tulalip. I might go there once or twice to look at the mounts etc., but won't spend my dime there. Someone is getting a big chuckle about all us non-native sportsmen spending our money on mostly China made stuff anyways. You can bet though the Tulalips will still make a ton of money and use that money for political power against us.
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i wish people would quit saying we screwed the indians over and that they were here first, i dont know anyone still alive that had anything to do with screwing the indians over, how long ago was that? i believe they have been very well taken care of for any miss doings in the past, its not anyones fault on here for what happened in the past, i believe they should do away with all reservations and casinos and make it all part of the state and goverment like anything else, that way everyone pays the same taxes and are treated the same, which is what everyone always harps on, being treated the same, as for cabelas, cant hardly stand the place, sportco and sportsmans warehouse always seem to have what i need to for a better price, hell half the stuff i can make or get at walmart for real cheap.
OK, but why can the tribes pull that card and play it all the time ? They weren't around then either.
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The idea behind USING THE PAST to support the argument is totally valid because we negotiated with the tribes and we cannot just take everything back after the fact, thats not how democracy works. Id be pissed if someone argued the constitution no longer applied because it happened so long ago.. :twocents:
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I don't have any problem with Native people in WA. I'm not sure where you're coming from but I disagree. I'll still shop at Cabela's and on my way to BC, will stop at the Tulalip store on every trip.
There are a lot of Native Washingtonians/Americans who post in here. It's my opinion that anti-Indian posts are no different than anti-Mexican, Asian, or black posts. They're doing only what was agreed to between them and the government under treaty provisions. If you have a problem with the things Natives do, maybe you're angry at the wrong people. It's our government who drew up and ratified the treaties, not the Natives.
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:yeah:
yes yes
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I admire the natives in the area and I am extremely pleased to see the quality of life improving with the revenues generated from the casinos. How is this different tahn any other business. Tobacco mfg. Ford. Microsoft. Beer mfg. Las Vegas Casinos.
Why in the world would someone not be glad for them. Boycott is absurd and for what reason other than racism.
Do you boycott Bass Pro Shops because they are in bed with Silverton Hotel and Casino?
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And why does this sites Spell Check still identify "Cabela's" as spelled wrong?
Maybe because there is no apostrophe.
There is on the Cabela's site.
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I'd bet most people who don't despise the natives (at least their hunting/fishing impacts) don't live or hunt/fish where they do. . . They've devastated a LOT of areas here on the west side, and while I don't know much about the Colockum or that side of the state I know they've had a terrible impact there. . . Honestly if it weren't for what they've done to the fish and wildlife in a lot of areas I wouldn't have a problem with them.
As for Cabelas. . . I generally just go there to try stuff on, handle a rifle or bow, or flat browse around and then go buy it at Wholesale Sports or online.
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i dont see any racism on this thread at all, no one is getting pissed and throwing racial slures out there against the indians, i am saying that everyone wants to be treated the same, am i right? so why not do away with the reservations, indians didnt want to be on reservations anyways if you remember correctly, so get rid of it, and why cant the casinos fall under the same laws and rules as every other company has to do, thats all i am saying there is no reason to start throwing racism into the mix, the cabelas part i could careless about who is in bed with who, all i am saying is cabelas is way over priced and if you want more for your buck in this economy then i would shop somewhere else where my dollar will stretch a little further :twocents:
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No Pianoman9701, Anti-Indain is not the same as Anti-black or asian. There is apsolutly no reason to be anti-black or asian. however Native Americans think the deserve more then the rest of Americans which makes it not equal. I thought Americans were all treated equally? Not Indians though. There will always be anti indains if they have more benifits than the rest of America.
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And why does this sites Spell Check still identify "Cabela's" as spelled wrong?
Maybe because there is no apostrophe.
?? there is an apostrophe in Cabela's on every catalog I get :chuckle:
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i dont see any racism on this thread at all, no one is getting pissed and throwing racial slures out there against the indians, i am saying that everyone wants to be treated the same, am i right? so why not do away with the reservations, indians didnt want to be on reservations anyways if you remember correctly, so get rid of it, and why cant the casinos fall under the same laws and rules as every other company has to do, thats all i am saying there is no reason to start throwing racism into the mix, the cabelas part i could careless about who is in bed with who, all i am saying is cabelas is way over priced and if you want more for your buck in this economy then i would shop somewhere else where my dollar will stretch a little further :twocents:
"I can't believe that in a state where the tribes have screwed the fishermen and hunters that they would make a deal with the devil that we all despise."
Calling the Natives the devil we all despise doesn't sound racist to you? I don't "despise" any whole groups of any people. That is called racism. I tend to take people and judge them on their individual actions.
When you talk about damage they've done to our hunting and fishing, are you speaking of legal acts they've performed under a treaty they've signed (a treaty which has probably been violated by our government several times), or are you talking about the illegal acts of individuals? Again, the treaties are written and ratified by the government. Any illegal actions, or hunting and fishing violations outside of their treaty agreements are committed by individual criminals. Have I missed something here?
How about lumping all loggers into the eco-rape category and hating them, too while we're at it. There are some loggers who perform their jobs illegally and ruin fragile eco systems. Should we paint all loggers this way or should we take each individual for their own actions?
Some hunters are unethical. Some litter in the woods and leave garbage behind where they camp. Should we say then that all hunters are unethical, polluting slobs who don't care about the environment? I wouldn't like that. That's what these comments paint ALL Natives as.
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No Pianoman9701, Anti-Indain is not the same as Anti-black or asian. There is apsolutly no reason to be anti-black or asian. however Native Americans think the deserve more then the rest of Americans which makes it not equal. I thought Americans were all treated equally? Not Indians though. There will always be anti indains if they have more benifits than the rest of America.
Then blame your government for writing it into the treaties, not the Indians. If the government decides you get twice as much money back in taxes as everyone else, will you turn it down? I doubt it, unless you're insane. Yet, others would say you suck for getting the extra money, not the government who decided to give it to you. Is that fair? No, it's not.
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You've got a good head on your shoulders Pianoman9701
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You've got a good head on your shoulders Pianoman9701
Well, it's really big anyway!
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Its really irritating to see how divided hunters get on the native issue. We would have a whole lot more collective bargaining against the wdfw if hunters didnt piss all over the natives for everything and instead worked with the natives
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Never been too thrilled about Cabelas coming to Tulalip. I might go there once or twice to look at the mounts etc., but won't spend my dime there. Someone is getting a big chuckle about all us non-native sportsmen spending our money on mostly China made stuff anyways. You can bet though the Tulalips will still make a ton of money and use that money for political power against us.
Yes they will
Just be happy you don't live near, or need either of those two I-5 exits guys, They already SUCK! As for boycott I don't go to Tulalip Home Depot, Despise Tulalip China Mart (Mama has forced me at times), and will shop off res whenever possible. Now how about Casinos Guys? Not me!
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Its really irritating to see how divided hunters get on the native issue. We would have a whole lot more collective bargaining against the wdfw if hunters didnt piss all over the natives for everything and instead worked with the natives
Yep, all of us hunters need to stand together, Native or not. It adds tens of thousands to our numbers to do so.
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Pionoman9701, I agree that Indians are just taking advantage of the laws they are givin. I would do the same thing. But are you saying that if the government decided to take away the tribes hunting laws to make everone equal you would be okay with it? I dont think so. Indains think they deserve more than me even though we are supposed to be equal.
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I think Hunters would stand together if we all had the SAME RULES!!
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I don't have any problem with Native people in WA. I'm not sure where you're coming from but I disagree. I'll still shop at Cabela's and on my way to BC, will stop at the Tulalip store on every trip.
There are a lot of Native Washingtonians/Americans who post in here. It's my opinion that anti-Indian posts are no different than anti-Mexican, Asian, or black posts. They're doing only what was agreed to between them and the government under treaty provisions. If you have a problem with the things Natives do, maybe you're angry at the wrong people. It's our government who drew up and ratified the treaties, not the Natives.
+1
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Pionoman9701, I agree that Indians are just taking advantage of the laws they are givin. I would do the same thing. But are you saying that if the government decided to take away the tribes hunting laws to make everone equal you would be okay with it? I dont think so. Indains think they deserve more than me even though we are supposed to be equal.
If the US government took away rights granted under ratified treaties, I'm not sure I would mind, but I wouldn't expect the Natives to sit still and shut up about it.
Indians get only what is in their treaties and within the rights agreed upon within those treaties. The treaties were drawn up based on concessions the Indians made to do with land and water rights when we moved in. We told them that in return for limiting the amount of land they lived on and for the control of the water that moves through their land, we would give them certain privileges. Hunting and fishing privileges were included. That's the deal. Our government made it to give you and me land to live on.
Let's say that your neighbor has a stream running through his property. The water comes onto your land and you use it constantly for irrigation. He decides he wants a swimming hole and he dams it up, leaving you dry. You go to your neighbor and tell him that if he releases the water, you'll allow him to hunt on your property forever. A few years later, you decide that he's killing too much game on your property and you want him to stop, but you want the water to keep flowing. What do you think his response is going to be? It's going to be "BS pal". You made an agreement and you're going to have to abide by it. That's the way it is. You don't like it? Go to your federal government and tell them they made a mistake and they should rescind the treaty. It's their agreement and our Congress ratified it. You and I have to live with it. Don't blame the Indians.
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I think Hunters would stand together if we all had the SAME RULES!!
I think you're right, hunters wouldnt be jealous of the longer seasons if the natives were forced to hunt when we do... BUT I believe hunters misunderstand why we have different rules and the finger always gets pointed at the natives being the culprit. This is not right
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I don't have any problem with Native people in WA. I'm not sure where you're coming from but I disagree. I'll still shop at Cabela's and on my way to BC, will stop at the Tulalip store on every trip.
There are a lot of Native Washingtonians/Americans who post in here. It's my opinion that anti-Indian posts are no different than anti-Mexican, Asian, or black posts. They're doing only what was agreed to between them and the government under treaty provisions. If you have a problem with the things Natives do, maybe you're angry at the wrong people. It's our government who drew up and ratified the treaties, not the Natives.
+1
+2 and I will not particiapte in this racism! Life is not fair and everyone is not treated equal nor would I ever wish so. It takes a big mind to understand this.
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Pionoman9701, I agree that Indians are just taking advantage of the laws they are givin. I would do the same thing. But are you saying that if the government decided to take away the tribes hunting laws to make everone equal you would be okay with it? I dont think so. Indains think they deserve more than me even though we are supposed to be equal.
Let's say that your neighbor has a stream running through his property. The water comes onto your land and you use it constantly for irrigation. He decides he wants a swimming hole and he dams it up, leaving you dry. You go to your neighbor and tell him that if he releases the water, you'll allow him to hunt on your property forever. A few years later, you decide that he's killing too much game on your property and you want him to stop, but you want the water to keep flowing. What do you think his response is going to be? It's going to be "BS pal". You made an agreement and you're going to have to abide by it. That's the way it is. You don't like it? Go to your federal government and tell them they made a mistake and they should rescind the treaty. It's their agreement and our Congress ratified it. You and I have to live with it. Don't blame the Indians.
This is a perfect example of why the indians are not to blame
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+2 and I will not particiapte in this racism! Life is not fair and everyone is not treated equal nor would I wever wish so. It takes a big mind to understand this.
:o
I remember in one of my business classes at UI one of the professors talking about how open ended contracts in which the terms and conditions of it are no longer valid or later used for far from the original intentions can have a term date set after the fact on which it can be made void or amended through some sort of arbitration. I know a treaty may be treated differently than a contract, but if this were the case it should definitely be amended. There is no way the ancestors of both sides today knew where society and technology would be today and wrote the treaties to apply to today's world.
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+2 and I will not particiapte in this racism! Life is not fair and everyone is not treated equal nor would I wever wish so. It takes a big mind to understand this.
:o
I remember in one of my business classes at UI one of the professors talking about how open ended contracts in which the terms and conditions of it are no longer valid or later used for far from the original intentions can have a term date set after the fact on which it can be made void or amended through some sort of arbitration. I know a treaty may be treated differently than a contract, but if this were the case it should definitely be amended. There is no way the ancestors of both sides today knew where society and technology would be today and wrote the treaties to apply to today's world.
I cannot agree more. The treaties today do not work and are causing a great deal of harm. I am not confusing that at all. But I do not look at it like, well they can and I cannot, that is the way a child perceives things.
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I agree if this all happened to one generation. but this happened years and years and years ago. which has nothing to do with you or me. You are not any better than i am and i am not any better than you. I would understand that "my neighbor" example you gave if the neighbors were the same people as today. but Indians are benifitting from something no Indian is even alive to remember. And i am being descriminated against for something that i had nothing to do with.
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"I know a treaty may be treated differently than a contract, but if this were the case it should definitely be amended. There is no way the ancestors of both sides today knew where society and technology would be today and wrote the treaties to apply to today's world"
you do have a good point. The forefathers wrote the consistution and bill of rights using vague language too be amended as society changes.
If the majority of society knew what we as hunters know about the violations that a few native individuals commit, maybe there would be amendments made. There has to be more accountability on the native's behalf as to game managment infractions but I dont see anything happending until there is a real scientific study that proves the natives are to blame for anything,, I dont believe they are
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I agree if this all happened to one generation. but this happened years and years and years ago. which has nothing to do with you or me. You are not any better than i am and i am not any better than you. I would understand that "my neighbor" example you gave if the neighbors were the same people as today. but Indians are benifitting from something no Indian is even alive to remember. And i am being descriminated against for something that i had nothing to do with.
Of course it had nothing to do with us at the time, but we still have to abide by what our government does until an overwhelming majority of people change it.. That being said, when they wrote the treaties the INTENTIONS had everything to do with us
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NOt all are as open minded as you Armadillo.
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The Intentions did have to do with us. But they did not predict the future correctly.
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+2 and I will not particiapte in this racism! Life is not fair and everyone is not treated equal nor would I wever wish so. It takes a big mind to understand this.
:o
I remember in one of my business classes at UI one of the professors talking about how open ended contracts in which the terms and conditions of it are no longer valid or later used for far from the original intentions can have a term date set after the fact on which it can be made void or amended through some sort of arbitration. I know a treaty may be treated differently than a contract, but if this were the case it should definitely be amended. There is no way the ancestors of both sides today knew where society and technology would be today and wrote the treaties to apply to today's world.
I cannot agree more. The treaties today do not work and are causing a great deal of harm. I am not confusing that at all. But I do not look at it like, well they can and I cannot, that is the way a child perceives things.
These are all valid points. I'm glad to see that the emphasis is changing from one of blaming the Indians to one of seeing that the treaty we ratified was short-sighted and may need amending. Apparently, our white guys who wrote it up didn't have much foresight. Were I Native, I'd certainly be using all of my rights under it.
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It boils down to doing what's 'right' really. In the majority of people's eyes it's NOT right for one person to take a half dozen mature bulls and bucks each year in the heat of the rut in areas 99% of the hunters in the state can only hope to draw one or two tags there in their lifetime, or netting the *censored* out of our 'sacred' salmon rivers to sell it on the side of the road and just go dump what doesn't sell in the woods at the end of the day. . . I understand they can do it under the treaty, but it doesn't make it right. What if the treaty read that they could shoot and kill any white man woman or child that crossed on to the reservation? That certainly wouldn't be right, though it might technically be legal in a treaty.
They need amended so that the terms are both fair and 'right' for both sides. Right now it's being abused.
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NOt all are as open minded as you Armadillo.
I know, I get in trouble a lot with the girlfriend on that one :chuckle:
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It boils down to doing what's 'right' really. In the majority of people's eyes it's NOT right for one person to take a half dozen mature bulls and bucks each year in the heat of the rut in areas 99% of the hunters in the state can only hope to draw one or two tags there in their lifetime, or netting the *censored* out of our 'sacred' salmon rivers to sell it on the side of the road and just go dump what doesn't sell in the woods at the end of the day. . . I understand they can do it under the treaty, but it doesn't make it right. What if the treaty read that they could shoot and kill any white man woman or child that crossed on to the reservation? That certainly wouldn't be right, though it might technically be legal in a treaty.
They need amended so that the terms are both fair and 'right' for both sides. Right now it's being abused.
Maybe it is time for a change to limit our native friends in order to restore or sustain our dwindling big game and fish populations. It probably wont happen until it can be scientifically proven that it is the privileged natives that are the root cause.
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It boils down to doing what's 'right' really. In the majority of people's eyes it's NOT right for one person to take a half dozen mature bulls and bucks each year in the heat of the rut in areas 99% of the hunters in the state can only hope to draw one or two tags there in their lifetime, or netting the *censored* out of our 'sacred' salmon rivers to sell it on the side of the road and just go dump what doesn't sell in the woods at the end of the day. . . I understand they can do it under the treaty, but it doesn't make it right. What if the treaty read that they could shoot and kill any white man woman or child that crossed on to the reservation? That certainly wouldn't be right, though it might technically be legal in a treaty.
They need amended so that the terms are both fair and 'right' for both sides. Right now it's being abused.
very well said, thats exactly whats going on
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How did this go from a store opening thread to a hunting rights thread? Appears the thread has been jacked. Instead of the new line of discussion how about talking about jobs? They can't be staffing the entire store with tribal members only. This has to include some job ops for folks looking for work. What about tourism dollars for off the res lodging/eating/entertainment? There is some good here, you just have to look at the greater picture.
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It boils down to doing what's 'right' really. In the majority of people's eyes it's NOT right for one person to take a half dozen mature bulls and bucks each year in the heat of the rut in areas 99% of the hunters in the state can only hope to draw one or two tags there in their lifetime, or netting the *censored* out of our 'sacred' salmon rivers to sell it on the side of the road and just go dump what doesn't sell in the woods at the end of the day. . . I understand they can do it under the treaty, but it doesn't make it right. What if the treaty read that they could shoot and kill any white man woman or child that crossed on to the reservation? That certainly wouldn't be right, though it might technically be legal in a treaty.
They need amended so that the terms are both fair and 'right' for both sides. Right now it's being abused.
very well said, thats exactly whats going on
Sorry Alan, but do you refuse any rights you have because they're not right? I doubt it. If you do, you're in the vast minority of people. Most people take what's available to them. Our government did that.
And, as far as "our sacred salmon rivers", those have been Native sacred salmon fishing grounds for many centuries, far longer than we've been here. The salmon stocks didn't go down from Native fishing. They went down after white men built dams and started using pesticides that run into those "sacred rivers". To include yours, all of the "anti" arguments I've read in this thread point back to the white man's failed ecological practices and to short-sighted agreements that our government pushed to get Indians off of their land so we could move in. You're blaming the wrong people.
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he isnt blaming any one specific person or culture, he is saying that we all need to get it figured out before its to late, and you cant say the puyallup river run is the whitemans fault and the stuck river that dumps into the puyallup is supposed to be an endangered run well those salmon have to come up the puyallup to get to the stuck and it aint whitemans nets in the river, and of course no one is gonna pass up money or land or anything else of great value if given to them, but if you can honestly say that some native americans dont abuse the systemm then thats pretty naive
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I agree 100% ALAN K. pianoman9701 even if it is the white mans fault for the treaties they came up with why doesnt the Tribes take the bull by the horns and change there own laws sense it would be better for all people (except Indians) and game?
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When I mentioned the word sacred I wasn't talking about them being sacred to me personally, or even the white man really. I can see now that is the way it came across though. I was talking about how they claim the salmon and the rivers are so sacred to their people, but they have no problem netting 90% of the river every 100 feet and dumping what they don't sell on the side of the road at the end of the day. . . Regardless of how the populations declined, you can't say that their netting practices are helping anything. Imagine how the numbers would be bouncing back if they didn't net like this, or heck, just cut back on the spacing between nets, and the percentage of the width their nets span.
I'm not saying what the white man has done in the past is right, or didn't hurt anything. What I'm saying is that their reckless netting isn't helping the populations of what they claim to be so sacred to them.
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And our laws and rights, which I abide by and use, are based off of what is 'right'. I honestly can't think of any rights or anything that I take advantage of that the vast majority of people would say isn't 'right'. :dunno:
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And our laws and rights, which I abide by and use, are based off of what is 'right'. I honestly can't think of any rights or anything that I take advantage of that the vast majority of people would say isn't 'right'. :dunno:
If these rights are way out of line and you truly want to do something to change them, I would imagine appealing to Natives' sense of fair play and care for their natural environment, and enlisting them to your point of view is the way to go. If you're perceived by someone as adversarial or painting all of them with a broad stroke, the chances they'll see your point of view are slim to none. People always respond better when treated with respect. I would suggest approaching a tribal council and you might be surprised with the results. Honey works better than vinegar. Boycotting Cabela's will have no effect whatsoever on over-hunting and fishing. Otherwise, write to your congressman/woman about amending the treaties. Just dissing the Indians isn't going to get you anywhere positive.
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When I mentioned the word sacred I wasn't talking about them being sacred to me personally, or even the white man really. I can see now that is the way it came across though. I was talking about how they claim the salmon and the rivers are so sacred to their people, but they have no problem netting 90% of the river every 100 feet and dumping what they don't sell on the side of the road at the end of the day. . . Regardless of how the populations declined, you can't say that their netting practices are helping anything. Imagine how the numbers would be bouncing back if they didn't net like this, or heck, just cut back on the spacing between nets, and the percentage of the width their nets span.
I'm not saying what the white man has done in the past is right, or didn't hurt anything. What I'm saying is that their reckless netting isn't helping the populations of what they claim to be so sacred to them.
:yeah:
Alan you are right on and I completely understand your logic, native Americans are so hypocritical, it's as if sustenance and profit mean the same thing to them. There is no need for them to have a commercial fishery anyways, they make enough money with casinos and developing their land.
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I have to firmly believe they are going after the Canadian dollars that are being spent in the area rather than making it more convenient for Washington state residents to shop.
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This subject certainly got side tracked I must admit myself.
Why don't we all start over with a group hug :chuckle: and talk about how crappy you think Cabelas is ?
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Interesting point regarding the Canadian dollars. I'm sure they will get a good amount of business from north of the border.
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This subject certainly got side tracked I must admit myself.
Why don't we all start over with a group hug :chuckle: and talk about how crappy you think Cabelas is ?
I like 'em. They send me Christmas cards and big thick books for free.
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Interesting point regarding the Canadian dollars. I'm sure they will get a good amount of business from north of the border.
Which is good for other local businesses - gas, food, lodging, other goods while they're here.
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It is. I hope the fact that this is good for the local economy as well as the tribe will not be lost on people.
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cant stand cabelas i would rather they use the land for a hockey arena or better yet a race track so we could get dale earnhart jr and the other pro racers here, now that would create some cash or use the land to make a hatchery to put more fish in are rivers, :twocents:
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I used to get the fat catalogs too. I told them to stop. I shouldn't have though. It keeps the loggers employed along with truck drivers, pulp and paper mills, printing companies, ink suppliers, timber companies, CAT etc. Hmmmmmmmm......talk about Cabelas creating jobs.
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There is no need for them to have a commercial fishery anyways, they make enough money with casinos and developing their land.
How much money should the tribe be allowed to make? Why should this be regulated?
Gentleman this debate has turned into something it shouldnt. Why is cabelas such a bad thing when it brings business to an growing community struggling to be free from generations of poverty? How does this relate to the tribal hunting regulations?
Are we opposed to the native rights because we, as sportsman are jealous of what they have and what we want?
Or are we against the native rights because you know for a fact that they actually threaten natural resource sustainability?
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cant stand cabelas i would rather they use the land for a hockey arena or better yet a race track so we could get dale earnhart jr and the other pro racers here, now that would create some cash or use the land to make a hatchery to put more fish in are rivers, :twocents:
Really, your kidding right....
There is a Hockey arena in everett at the events center, and it does not add to the local economy as a store like cabelas will, a race track seriously how would that add alot to the local economy? The lot is not big enough for a track and is not a good location for a hatchery, besides who in ther right mind would not use prime I-5 frontage real estate located between the biggest city in washington state and one of the busiest border crossings from canada to build a location to take advantage of that. The tribes will benefit from the longterm lease they get cabelas to sign, along with the increase in people coming to buy and hitting the outlet mall, casino etc. My only hope is that Cabelas did not have to or did not make any hiring concessions with the tribe, ie: Preference given to tribal members over non tribal when appling for jobs..
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Yawn !!!!!
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Wake up mister :hello:
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Sorry, I fell asleep watching a boring hunting show on private land.
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well a great big shopping mall would bring more cash than a cabelas and i doubt that anyone that isnt a native american will get first crack at any jobs, oh wait aminute yes they will cause native americans get paid whether they work or not........
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We need a "going downhill" icon I see.
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cant stand cabelas i would rather they use the land for a hockey arena or better yet a race track so we could get dale earnhart jr and the other pro racers here, now that would create some cash or use the land to make a hatchery to put more fish in are rivers, :twocents:
I had thought that since seattle and washington politicians won't touch the Arena thing that it was a tribe that could do it. That site was one I thought would be a good one. The 6000 seat arena in Everett will not support an NHL or NBA team.
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I had thought that since seattle and washington politicians won't touch the Arena thing that it was a tribe that could do it. That site was one I thought would be a good one. The 6000 seat arena in Everett will not support an NHL or NBA team.
[/quote]
It's not the venue that will not support an NHL or NBA team.......you could build a 60k seat arena and it would be empty just the same..
:jacked:
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You've got a good head on your shoulders Pianoman9701
X2.
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Are we opposed to the native rights because we, as sportsman are jealous of what they have and what we want?
Or are we against the native rights because you know for a fact that they actually threaten natural resource sustainability?
I'm opposed to all these ridiculous native rights because they are winning twice. They get the best of their 'nation' rights, as well as those that the rest of us have. I am for equality for everyone in the U.S., but having these small sects that get the special treatment because their ancestors several generations back were wronged is just asenine. Their disregard for the state's management of fish and wildlife undermines everything that our biologists do. I don't want to take a half dozen mature bulls and bucks in trophy areas every year. I don't want anyone to take anything more than what is fair and managed for.
I don't have the means or knowledge alone to do anything about it, so I choose to bitch about it on here. Believe me if there were an organization out there pushing for amending the treaties so that they still get some kickback (but within reason!) I'd be right there backing them up.
Heck, I'd probably sign up for Washington for Wildlife if they took a hard stance against the ridiculous hunting/fishing rights of the Tribes. :tup:
Oh, and the reason nothing ever gets done about is it that the tribes simply have too much money (generated through exclusive rights in the treaty!). They keep the public misinformed with zillions of advertizing/marketing dollars, the government on their side through generous campaign donations, and practically a blank check for attorneys to defend the treaty as though it was literally written with today's world in mind.
Good luck fighting that, in the mean time I'll bitch about it on forums and to family and friends.
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ALAN K for president, ya got my vote sir i can promise you that......
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I agree ALAN K for pres.!,but he'll never make it, he's way too logical and honest.
We really do need more people tho with the same common sense to help chip away at this bass ackwards system.
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Amen. ALAN K.
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The common sense should point the finger at our own government though, not the natives. The government is the acting body the natives merely plunder what they are allowed.
Alan K if you were up for president, so help me, you would get my vote too.
Im not arguing that its right that the natives overharvest game or have the better seasons. Folks just ought to know that our government screws us over by enabling this to happen
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Like I said before. We know our government isnt going to do anything. Why cant they Tribes take the bull by the horns and change their own ways that they are running their game management?
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My problem isn't with the indians either, it's with our government, for letting them get away with all that they do. The treaties say they have the right to hunt "in common" with us, on open and unclaimed lands. Well, I don't see them doing anything in common with us. They don't follow our seasons, they don't follow our limits, they don't buy hunting licenses and tags like we do. To me, what they are doing is nothing more than poaching. But I don't blame them. They do it because the government lets them.
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My problemisn't with the indians either, it's with our government, for letting them get away with all that they do. The treaties say they have the right to hunt "in common" with us, on open and unclaimed lands. Well, I don't see them doing anything in common with us. They don't follow our seasons, they don't follow our limits, they don't buy hunting licenses and tags like we do. To me, what they are doing is nothing more than poaching. But I don't blame them. They do it because the government lets them.
Well said!
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My problem isn't with the indians either, it's with our government, for letting them get away with all that they do. The treaties say they have the right to hunt "in common" with us, on open and unclaimed lands. Well, I don't see them doing anything in common with us. They don't follow our seasons, they don't follow our limits, they don't buy hunting licenses and tags like we do. To me, what they are doing is nothing more than poaching. But I don't blame them. They do it because the government lets them.
Exactly!
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I have a hard time believing that anyone who has seen the heaps of rotting salmon that was netted and didn't sell same day sits there and thinks about how much they hate our government for letting them do it. I sit there with my blood boiling thinking about the scumbag who dumped those who felt so entitled and 'right' in wasting them like that. I understand that our own government is to blame for letting them get away with it, but I've still got some serious hate for the guys doing it whether they can or not legally by the treaty.
And the same goes for the elk they just take the heads and back straps of etc. Pisses my off just thinking about it. :bash:
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Alan, you're right. I DO blame the indians also, for all the poaching they do.
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I have a hard time believing that anyone who has seen the heaps of rotting salmon that was netted and didn't sell same day sits there and thinks about how much they hate our government for letting them do it. I sit there with my blood boiling thinking about the scumbag who dumped those who felt so entitled and 'right' in wasting them like that. I understand that our own government is to blame for letting them get away with it, but I've still got some serious hate for the guys doing it whether they can or not legally by the treaty.
And the same goes for the elk they just take the heads and back straps of etc. Pisses my off just thinking about it. :bash:
Me too :bash:
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Is this a warm up thread in anticipation of the upcoming tribal hunting seasons?...I desperately wanted to comment, so remember this thread was already jacked...plus in my defense the OP was more anti Indian than anti Cabelas. :)
I'll leave the fishing issue alone, as it's already been litigated, but some of the posts about tribes being a threat to wildlife resources seemed to be a little far fetched...at least from my perspective. If I was looking at this issue from an outsiders perspective (in determining the limiting factors on big game population sustainability in Washington) I would have a hard time viewing the Tribes "5-10%" of the total harvest as the problem...unless I was a comanager that ignored it, or didn't acknowledge the tribes right to it. (if you don't have confidence in tribal reporting, then be conservative and use a 30% non reporting...still minimal).
If I was uninformed...I would probably scrutinize the states westside unlimited branch bull tag sales...unlimited tags, limited resource. At a glance it seems like poor management, but I can only imagine there is a lot of strategizing that goes into developing a system that maximizes tag sales, but not opportunity. I get the impression on this forum that most think herd health and hunter success are synonymous...they're not, and both are heavily influenced by the political powers that decided how a resource is going to be utilized. I think when you say "we are doing it right", you have to understand that an agency might say "we are managing based on science", but remember western science is heavily influenced by politics and those conducting the research can use western science to lead to a pre determined conclusion. So, if right means "sustainability and managing based wholey on science", I'd say nobody's really doing it right.
Of course I would say this...but I think the treaties are doing what they were intended to do. The treaty signers weren't trying to "right a wrong" as much as they were trying to protect their reserved rights for future generations. It's already been hinted at, but to emphasize...the argument that is being used about treaties being outdated and misinterpreted is the same one that is being used to attack your 2nd Amendment. As for those of you who think NW Indians didn't hunt for recreation or seek out rutting bulls by mimicking there calls should probably do some research.
I would only agree that in some areas of the states tribal hunting decreases the amount of opportunity for trophy animals for state hunters...or if you're on the west side "legal bulls". I think you'd have a hard time linking that to "Indians are a threat to wildlife populations" if you were in court. That's why I have mixed feelings about litigation...right now I don't personally think tribes "need" 50% of the elk and deer in this state...we would never come close to filling that quota, although game populations would probably explode as a result.
Oops...I just saw a few more posts....geeeeshhh...sorry for being blunt, but you guys are getting a little one sided with your broad statements, generalizations, and complete disregard for the faults of some of your fellow non natives.
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could i ask a honest question coastal? how do you honestly feel about natives that take way more salmon than what they are gonna use and just discard them where ever thay see fit? if it was a non native then they would be ticketed and lose there fishn rights for a little while. or how do you honestly feel about a native shootn up a heard of elk and only taken the ones they could find and letn the rest lay to rott? because if you feel the way we feel then you would want to fix it, because if you read other threads that have something to do with a non native poaching or taking more than their share then you see that we would be more than happy to hang their butts high...... if your wondering where i came up with my examples then i just want you to know that i have seen it, i am not just making stuff up, the salmon i seen in sumner after a day on the puyallup, and the elk happened in the green river water shed and also up in enumclaw
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Lets blame our own state government for making a piss poor deal. Other states have figured it out. If the state came to you and offered you hunting or fishing rights would you turn it down? Why blame the natives for it? There are poachers of every race and color. Poaching is poaching and it isn't good no matter who does it. Lets focus our angst where it belongs, on the state. The syphoning of money out of the WDFW into the general fund is far more damaging than anything the tribes are doing. :twocents:
I agree totally and it's a point that falls on deaf ears. The only thing I would disagree with is that these treaties are mainly federal and ratified by Congress. I'm not sure the state has a lot of options here.
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If the state came to you and offered you hunting or fishing rights would you turn it down? Why blame the natives for it?
No, but if I was a native American leader and proclaimed to be a steward of mother earth I would make sure the laws of the land were enforced with the tribe. Any selling or wasting of wild game would have severe penalties.
I guess it's the hypocritical Indian that gets under my skin and blame the most.
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If the state came to you and offered you hunting or fishing rights would you turn it down? Why blame the natives for it?
No, but if I was a native American leader and proclaimed to be a steward of mother earth I would make sure the laws of the land were enforced with the tribe. Any selling or wasting of wild game would have severe penalties.
I guess it's the hypocritical Indian that gets under my skin and blame the most.
A lot of very good comments and replies. I wish I had seen this topic sooner but, since I'm stuck in an airport in indianapolis coming back from a business trip I'll offer what info. I can while I wait for my delayed flight. As I have stated before I'm not here to bash, name call or threaten anybody so please be civil and do the same. I first looked at this and thought it was targeting cabelas and as I sat here reading post after post I realized this was not directed at cabelas it was just a mask covering its true intent. I believe the issue should probably have its own category? I.e. Native Issues? And somebody with an open and unbiased mind can moderate it. That way we can keep topics on course and uninterrupted. I've debated the issues regarding everything that has been said and I can do it again but remember if you're trying to do anything uncivil then don't bother asking. I have offered assistance with topics related to Tribes and I've gotten some good questions and its obvious if there was a permanent discussion thread like those listed near the top of the "general discussion" there can be questions and answers provided. Thank you Pianoman for your post the story you used sounded very familiar.
I'm making a firm request to the moderators/site managers to create the permanent thread and I would like to put my name in the hat as one of the persons selected to be a point of contact for and questions. I believe this would free up a lot of space for more interesting topics hunting related.
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No, but if I was a native American leader and proclaimed to be a steward of mother earth I would make sure the laws of the land were enforced with the tribe. Any selling or wasting of wild game would have severe penalties.
I guess it's the hypocritical Indian that gets under my skin and blame the most.
If I was a Native American leader and proclaimed to be a steward of mother earth I wouldn't change a thing, why would I?
Have you not been following the 'Wolf" thread? Have you not been following whats going on in our country? There are few people left that have any faith at all in our government, Native Americans are no different. Why would they trust ANYTHING our government says, they have already been duped once and its painfully obvious that our government is proficient at lying to our faces while stabbing us in the back.
I don't condone the waist of fish and game, nor do I agree with the tribal hunting practices but if we are honest here, you wouldn't give up those rights either if you had them.
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But to exercise those "treaty rights" to the extent of it being out of charactor with their ancient traditional beliefs is just plain wrong and hypocritical. Claiming to follow the spiritual ways but not practice them?? They should know the treaty should be changed or eliminated for their own good and everyone's good so we can all finally come together and work on equal rights and realistic wildlife management for many generations to come. That's what I'm talking about here..
And No I haven't been following the Wolf thread
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If the state came to you and offered you hunting or fishing rights would you turn it down? Why blame the natives for it?
No, but if I was a native American leader and proclaimed to be a steward of mother earth I would make sure the laws of the land were enforced with the tribe. Any selling or wasting of wild game would have severe penalties.
I guess it's the hypocritical Indian that gets under my skin and blame the most.
A lot of very good comments and replies. I wish I had seen this topic sooner but, since I'm stuck in an airport in indianapolis coming back from a business trip I'll offer what info. I can while I wait for my delayed flight. As I have stated before I'm not here to bash, name call or threaten anybody so please be civil and do the same. I first looked at this and thought it was targeting cabelas and as I sat here reading post after post I realized this was not directed at cabelas it was just a mask covering its true intent. I believe the issue should probably have its own category? I.e. Native Issues? And somebody with an open and unbiased mind can moderate it. That way we can keep topics on course and uninterrupted. I've debated the issues regarding everything that has been said and I can do it again but remember if you're trying to do anything uncivil then don't bother asking. I have offered assistance with topics related to Tribes and I've gotten some good questions and its obvious if there was a permanent discussion thread like those listed near the top of the "general discussion" there can be questions and answers provided. Thank you Pianoman for your post the story you used sounded very familiar.
I'm making a firm request to the moderators/site managers to create the permanent thread and I would like to put my name in the hat as one of the persons selected to be a point of contact for and questions. I believe this would free up a lot of space for more interesting topics hunting related.
I think this is a great idea. There are many misunderstandings that exist through lack of accurate information that could be dispelled. You've got my vote.
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Nothing will change if we continue to give the tribes and business that deal with them our money. When they start to suffer they will go back to the state to make a new compact. Until such time the tribes will get more powerful and buy more democrats in Olympia.
Yes, this is Judge Bolt's fault and the fact that the Gov. took money from the tribes so they don't have to pay tax is also wrong. They will not every make a new compact as long as they make billions from US!!!
Boycott the tribes, their businesses and those that deal with them.
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I like 'em. I'll be stopping in Tulalip on my way up to Vancouver each time.
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Boycott the tribes, their businesses and those that deal with them.
So are you saying boycott the actual business that is on tribal land, or buycott any business that does business on tribal land regardless of the location.
ie: you would be ok with going to the lacey cabelas, but not the tulalip cabelas, or your gonna boycott all cabelas and the online department also?
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Boycott the tribes, their businesses and those that deal with them.
So are you saying boycott the actual business that is on tribal land, or buycott any business that does business on tribal land regardless of the location.
ie: you would be ok with going to the lacey cabelas, but not the tulalip cabelas, or your gonna boycott all cabelas and the online department also?
Exactly what I was thinking Buckmark. If your going to boycott Cabelas because they made a deal to work on Res land would you also Boycott Levis, Mcdonalds, all the companys at the outlet mall? I do not go to that mall myself but it is only because of the crowds. I mean seriously, look around if your going to start boycotting, they are not the only company that deals with the tribes. Heck, my 17 year old daughter works over at the mall. I will go to Cabelas and probably buy a few things as well. I know at times a person can get a good deal.
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Boycott the tribes, their businesses and those that deal with them.
So are you saying boycott the actual business that is on tribal land, or buycott any business that does business on tribal land regardless of the location.
ie: you would be ok with going to the lacey cabelas, but not the tulalip cabelas, or your gonna boycott all cabelas and the online department also?
Exactly what I was thinking Buckmark. If your going to boycott Cabelas because they made a deal to work on Res land would you also Boycott Levis, Mcdonalds, all the companys at the outlet mall? I do not go to that mall myself but it is only because of the crowds. I mean seriously, look around if your going to start boycotting, they are not the only company that deals with the tribes. Heck, my 17 year old daughter works over at the mall. I will go to Cabelas and probably buy a few things as well. I know at times a person can get a good deal.
Who do you think you're going to hurt with a boycott here, Gig? The tribes hire non-tribal locals in their businesses. They attract tourists from all over and from our neighbor to the north, who bring with them money to spend in hotels, restaurants, gas stations, mini-marts, and scores of other non-tribe businesses. Boycott the tribes and the non-tribal people will get hit first. I guarantee the tribes aren't going to suffer. Even without considering all of the Native people who belong to this site, I would encourage you to reconsider your continued anti-Native rhetoric. If you want to pick an entire group of people to get mad at, that's what the stupid news channel website forums are for; people with a chip on their shoulder.
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If the state came to you and offered you hunting or fishing rights would you turn it down? Why blame the natives for it?
No, but if I was a native American leader and proclaimed to be a steward of mother earth I would make sure the laws of the land were enforced with the tribe. Any selling or wasting of wild game would have severe penalties.
I guess it's the hypocritical Indian that gets under my skin and blame the most.
A lot of very good comments and replies. I wish I had seen this topic sooner but, since I'm stuck in an airport in indianapolis coming back from a business trip I'll offer what info. I can while I wait for my delayed flight. As I have stated before I'm not here to bash, name call or threaten anybody so please be civil and do the same. I first looked at this and thought it was targeting cabelas and as I sat here reading post after post I realized this was not directed at cabelas it was just a mask covering its true intent. I believe the issue should probably have its own category? I.e. Native Issues? And somebody with an open and unbiased mind can moderate it. That way we can keep topics on course and uninterrupted. I've debated the issues regarding everything that has been said and I can do it again but remember if you're trying to do anything uncivil then don't bother asking. I have offered assistance with topics related to Tribes and I've gotten some good questions and its obvious if there was a permanent discussion thread like those listed near the top of the "general discussion" there can be questions and answers provided. Thank you Pianoman for your post the story you used sounded very familiar.
I'm making a firm request to the moderators/site managers to create the permanent thread and I would like to put my name in the hat as one of the persons selected to be a point of contact for and questions. I believe this would free up a lot of space for more interesting topics hunting related.
PlateauNDN,
I really hope the mods take note of your post and consider this. I haven't taken a stance on the issue of native hunting and fishing rights simply because I haven't heard both sides of the issue. With this forum being sponsored by Washington for Wildlife I would think they would jump at the idea of having a place where these issues could be discussed in an unbiased and intelligent way.
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So, do you think if the Government takes away our gun rights the Natives will be able to keep there guns to hunt with?
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So, do you think if the Government takes away our gun rights the Natives will be able to keep there guns to hunt with?
:dunno: I do think there is a lot of gun owners that wouldn't let that happen.
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Ya just gotta know, If it was legal for me to do something that everyone else could not do ,then by god I will still do it, get over it folks,and really you all need to get over the "tribal thing" possibly spend more time on " Illegal alien actions " these are truly something that could be changed, not something that was enacted by a treaty document 100+ years old and still a legal binding contract. Bash Welfare ,complain about something you can CHANGE , but get a life. Jeeezze
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Looking at things a little more optimistically then maybe the Tulalips will use a large portion of their profits on more fish for us to catch and better big game management for more critters to hunt..
:yeah:
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If I were to BOYCOTT everything I didn't agree with I wouldn't have a damn thing..... I understand your thought process but it is what it is.......
its not the indians fault, Blame OBAMA... ha ha ha
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Cabellas moving onto tribal land is no different than walmart or homedepot. it is a LAND and ZONING issue. State regulations are so convoluted that it is hard to put in any large establishment. Cabellas is going to tribal land because it is an expedited process. They can build in months instead of years. Hell, after the Walmart went in for a few years the community finally settled down and allowed one to be built in Smokey Point, where they originally wanted to. I'm guessing the draw of tax $ and the impact was already there so they finally ok'ed the deal.
You will find MANY business moving tward tribal locations and partnerships. Does this make the business people or tribes evil? The reality is there are limited choices for business in this state. We can either move, go out of business, or think out of the box.... And that is what is happening with the tribal land... Much of the red tape causes this and you cannot point to any one thing.
I see much misplaced frustration regarding Native issues. Many are the symptoms of the problem not the cause... OUR crappy politicians are one cause, and i believe the other is the ability of the tribes to give political donations to state and local leaders... I believe that is a conflict of interest and should be addressed. I had a conversation with a local politician that explained how much money was spread around by tribes on the local scene... If you don't like DNR keys or baiting on public ground for tribal members only, you should find out how and why this is happening...
As Usually CN gives good sound input and we should all feel lucky to articulate insight on this issue. :twocents:
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Cabellas moving onto tribal land is no different than walmart or homedepot. it is a LAND and ZONING issue. State regulations are so convoluted that it is hard to put in any large establishment. Cabellas is going to tribal land because it is an expedited process. They can build in months instead of years. Hell, after the Walmart went in for a few years the community finally settled down and allowed one to be built in Smokey Point, where they originally wanted to. I'm guessing the draw of tax $ and the impact was already there so they finally ok'ed the deal.
You will find MANY business moving tward tribal locations and partnerships. Does this make the business people or tribes evil? The reality is there are limited choices for business in this state. We can either move, go out of business, or think out of the box.... And that is what is happening with the tribal land... Much of the red tape causes this and you cannot point to any one thing.
I see much misplaced frustration regarding Native issues. Many are the symptoms of the problem not the cause... OUR crappy politicians are one cause, and i believe the other is the ability of the tribes to give political donations to state and local leaders... I believe that is a conflict of interest and should be addressed. I had a conversation with a local politician that explained how much money was spread around by tribes on the local scene... If you don't like DNR keys or baiting on public ground for tribal members only, you should find out how and why this is happening...
As Usually CN gives good sound input and we should all feel lucky to articulate insight on this issue. :twocents:
:yeah:
At this point and junction I would rather give my hunting and fishing revenue to the Tribes. I have more in common with them and their outlook than the Government that supposedly serves me. I hope not one tax dollar goes to Gregoire.
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Cabellas moving onto tribal land is no different than walmart or homedepot. it is a LAND and ZONING issue. State regulations are so convoluted that it is hard to put in any large establishment. Cabellas is going to tribal land because it is an expedited process. They can build in months instead of years. Hell, after the Walmart went in for a few years the community finally settled down and allowed one to be built in Smokey Point, where they originally wanted to. I'm guessing the draw of tax $ and the impact was already there so they finally ok'ed the deal.
You will find MANY business moving tward tribal locations and partnerships. Does this make the business people or tribes evil? The reality is there are limited choices for business in this state. We can either move, go out of business, or think out of the box.... And that is what is happening with the tribal land... Much of the red tape causes this and you cannot point to any one thing.
I see much misplaced frustration regarding Native issues. Many are the symptoms of the problem not the cause... OUR crappy politicians are one cause, and i believe the other is the ability of the tribes to give political donations to state and local leaders... I believe that is a conflict of interest and should be addressed. I had a conversation with a local politician that explained how much money was spread around by tribes on the local scene... If you don't like DNR keys or baiting on public ground for tribal members only, you should find out how and why this is happening...
As Usually CN gives good sound input and we should all feel lucky to articulate insight on this issue. :twocents:
:yeah:
At this point and junction I would rather give my hunting and fishing revenue to the Tribes. I have more in common with them and their outlook than the Government that supposedly serves me. I hope not one tax dollar goes to Gregoire.
The lovely gregoire wont be here next year :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:
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At least the Indians got the casino business figured out - I went to go trade in my chips the other day, and they gave me three bushels of corn and a beaver pelt.... :o
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The lovely gregoire wont be here next year :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:
Well, her term goes right through the end of 2012 and into the first week of 2013. It's a technicality though. Hopefully the next governor is able to clean up after her.
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At least the Indians got the casino business figured out - I went to go trade in my chips the other day, and they gave me three bushels of corn and a beaver pelt.... :o
Nice! And which casino was that? The last "Indian" Resort and Casino I was at was more luxurious and cheaper to stay at then the supposedly fancy luxury JW Marriot of Indianapolis or some of the other upscale hotels I've been to over the last year. I travel quite a bit for work and by experience I can tell you now the "Indian" Resorts and Casinos are by far a better experience then the upscale hotels such as the JW, Hyatt, Westin, Hilton and Renaissance I've stayed at and come at a cheaper rate. So I'm sorry your experience was not what you expected but mine have been and will continue to be.
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At least the Indians got the casino business figured out - I went to go trade in my chips the other day, and they gave me three bushels of corn and a beaver pelt.... :o
Nice! And which casino was that? The last "Indian" Resort and Casino I was at was more luxurious and cheaper to stay at then the supposedly fancy luxury JW Marriot of Indianapolis or some of the other upscale hotels I've been to over the last year. I travel quite a bit for work and by experience I can tell you now the "Indian" Resorts and Casinos are by far a better experience then the upscale hotels such as the JW, Hyatt, Westin, Hilton and Renaissance I've stayed at and come at a cheaper rate. So I'm sorry your experience was not what you expected but mine have been and will continue to be.
I'm pretty sure he was attempting humor, Plateau.
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Plateau, Your example is perfect example of the difference between the tribal form of government and the states. 2 competing products very similar in many ways. The tribal hotel provides a better experince fot the same or less money. I would bet my paycheck that it is becasue of less red tape that the tribe has to go through compared to the sate and municipalities anywhere off the Rez.
A little while back I ALMOST rented a hotel room in seattle after a ball game... was thinking about riding the train down, waching a game and spending the night. The price seem high but tollerable, untill i asked about all the taxes that wern't included... We decided to go with some people on a chartered bus instead...
I don't particually care for casinos, and i don't smoke... I do however like the occasional cigar, and apparently so do many other people. We GAVE away our right to smoke in Private bars and resturants... and Guess who didn't?
I do not think the tribes are a clean as the wind driven snow. They gave plenty of money to influence the state to adopt laws banning smoking in public places. I think it is wrong, should not be allowed, and should be looked upon the same way when forgin countries give donations to politicains in this country... All of the Hate i hear for indians are symptoms or this core problem... But in order to change it we have to fire politicains in mass and good people that are not career politicains need to leave thier lives to change our great state...
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havn't you guys figured it out yet. its never in the best interest of the majority. its always in the best interest of the minority and those who can afford to line the pockets of the state representatives. the tribes are wealthy and are doing just that.