Post by: kirkl on November 30, 2011, 01:51:48 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2011/wsr_11-23-179.pdf
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 01:56:17 PM
They have draft regs our for Multi season. they are bumping up deer from 4000 to 8500
:yike: Wow, that's a lot. They just increased it from 2000 to 4000 last year! :dunno:
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2011, 02:00:33 PM
Post by: jrebel on November 30, 2011, 03:32:00 PM
Post by: bullcanyon on November 30, 2011, 04:50:15 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 30, 2011, 05:11:15 PM
Post by: JKEEN33 on November 30, 2011, 05:27:27 PM
Post by: Deep Forks on November 30, 2011, 05:47:32 PM
Just because they up the number, doesn't mean they are going to be selling that number. I was surprised at the number of people that put in, drew the multi season and then didn't buy the tag. I think about 2 out of 10 guys I asked actually bought the tag after being drawn (Deer). Me being one of them.I also know of several people who drew the tag but didn't purchase it...
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 07:05:29 PM
I personally think this is awsome. Just because you draw the multi season tag doesn't mean you can kill more than one deer....it just gives you a longer season. I have drawn it 3 years now and killed two does and one buck with it. I hunt hard and for many days a year and this just allowed me more time to look for the big buck. I too agree they should just make it an over the counter purchase.
This has been discussed many times on here, but again, more multi-season tags mean more animals killed. The fact that you are still only allowed one animal is irrelevant. If a person can hunt all the seasons, they are more likely to be successful in taking an animal. Average success rates are about 20% for deer and 5% for elk. People with the multi-season tags could easily double or triple those success rates because they have more time to hunt.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 30, 2011, 07:09:21 PM
Post by: jager on November 30, 2011, 07:10:02 PM
We need to clean house!!!
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 30, 2011, 07:13:11 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 07:17:08 PM
But at the same time, more time to hunt isn't necessarily more time hunting the same animal. My archery, modern, muzzy units aren't the same either by choice or by regulation. So when one ends it's not like come back next week with a different weapon.
True, but also not relevant. Success rates will go up, and more animals will be killed, period.
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 07:18:45 PM
I don't necessarily buy into this. I can get a deer any day of the archery season where I hunt. The multi season tag this year let me hold out for a larger animal than I would have taken during the archery season which I would have hunted if I was not drawn for the multi tag.
So you're basically of the opinion that season length doesn't make a difference in harvest rates? If that was the case, they wouldn't need seasons at all. They could just open it up statewide from September 1st to December 31st, any weapon.
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 07:21:42 PM
I don't necessarily buy into this. I can get a deer any day of the archery season where I hunt. The multi season tag this year let me hold out for a larger animal than I would have taken during the archery season which I would have hunted if I was not drawn for the multi tag.
Sorry but they stats dont lie. Multi season tags have double the harvest success rate of general tags on deer and way over double on elk. This has everything to do with more money and nothing to do with an excess of animals. This is bad management IMO.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi406.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp150%2FNaithankain%2F2010deerharvestreport.png&hash=9f379bc173c7a99a0513f29b93302384fb0b8404)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi406.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp150%2FNaithankain%2F2010ElkHarvestReport.png&hash=7b2107b7ee260c7ece5768a688221dcb3ea7966f)
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 07:27:55 PM
I don't necessarily buy into this. I can get a deer any day of the archery season where I hunt. The multi season tag this year let me hold out for a larger animal than I would have taken during the archery season which I would have hunted if I was not drawn for the multi tag.
So you're basically of the opinion that season length doesn't make a difference in harvest rates? If that was the case, they wouldn't need seasons at all. They could just open it up statewide from September 1st to December 31st, any weapon.
No I am saying that not everyone buying the multi season tag is increasing the harvest. I was taking a deer to go in the freezer be it a trophy or a meet doe. 1=1 in my books.
But not everyone is successful in harvesting a deer every year. Only 1 in 5 people kill a deer each year.
Post by: royalbull on November 30, 2011, 07:31:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 07:32:43 PM
cost too much, should be free if drawn
If it was free, almost everyone would apply, and odds of drawing would be terrible. I do think $180 is a little high, but I wouldn't want it to be free either.
Post by: Maverick on November 30, 2011, 07:33:03 PM
I've had it with WDFW...what a bunch of money grubbing *censored*s...No consideration for the "game "populations whatsoever!I couldn't agree with you more!
We need to clean house!!!
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
I've had it with WDFW...what a bunch of money grubbing *censored*s...No consideration for the "game "populations whatsoever!I couldn't agree with you more!
We need to clean house!!!
Yep its like they all went to the "Pimps and Whores School of Game Management". Maybe they should read that "Predator Death Spiral" article.
Post by: royalbull on November 30, 2011, 07:38:46 PM
cost too much, should be free if drawn
If it was free, almost everyone would apply, and odds of drawing would be terrible. I do think $180 is a little high, but I wouldn't want it to be free either.
game dept. would make more of what they like and if drawn it would mean more, like winning the lotto
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 07:43:19 PM
I'm not saying this pertains to everyone. In my case, I can take a legal deer in archery season on a regular basis. The multi tag lets me take a better deer. Just because you buy multi tag does not meen more deer are killed. I would agree with maybe more mature deer are killed. If you factor that number in to how many of the multi tag guys are killing deer I don't think your increase in total kills is going to be as big as you think.
Using the harvest report stats above:
If a hundred guys have over the counter general season tags the harvest rate is 24% (24 deer)
If that same hundred guys draw multiseason permits their harvest rate goes up to 42% (42 deer)
So yes more deer will be killed.
Post by: jrebel on November 30, 2011, 07:43:50 PM
I personally like it because it give me more time affield looking for a trophy. I go very few years without harvesting a deer this just allows me the opportunity to look longer for a larger buck. It drives money not only to WDFW but also to all the local businesses, state and other vendors that benefit from my dollar while affield.
So if we are going to flash numbers folks lets remember that numbers are just that....numbers. They don't tell the whole story and can be used to make a case for both sides.
Post by: jager on November 30, 2011, 07:47:26 PM
I'm not saying this pertains to everyone. In my case, I can take a legal deer in archery season on a regular basis. The multi tag lets me take a better deer. Just because you buy multi tag does not meen more deer are killed. I would agree with maybe more mature deer are killed. If you factor that number in to how many of the multi tag guys are killing deer I don't think your increase in total kills is going to be as big as you think.
Why do you say that?
Maybe that is the case for you or I, that are targeting mature animals but I would suspect many are not. Some folks can only get out a couple of weekends then with the longer "season" maybe they get out five or six weekends.
If I can hunt early, general and late archery season, General and late modern, and early and general muzzy I would think Average joe's odds will be going up as far as success rates go.
Doubling the number of multi season tags is just plain irresponsible!
I don't think the eastside deer population will be able to sustain that kind of harvest.
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 07:52:01 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 30, 2011, 07:58:45 PM
IF there is enough deer available for more permits like these they could just add a day or two back onto each general season. I hope you all remeber this when they take another day or two from your general season. I for one cannot afford to put in for or buy these permits so it might be great for some of you but it is taking from the rest of us.I agree with this. If they feel they need to increase harvest, why not give an extra day or two or whatever the hunter days/harvest says. I have M/S this year, but won't put in for deer again. Elk on the other hand.....like crack.
Post by: jrebel on November 30, 2011, 08:02:57 PM
Your true argument comes out with your last statement. I couldn't more disgusted with it by the way. I have done nothing to you and your season. Don't blame the people that take advantage of opportunity that is presented to them. Our deer problem is not caused by any one person (or group of people) on this site. It is a result of your WDFW not managing appropriately. So you can't afford the tag....that by your own statement means I shouldn't buy it. Shame on you for making that statement. I can't afford the govenors tag so the person who can is taking an opportunity away from me??? :dunno: Come on think about your statements before you make them. This is nothing personal just simple logic.
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 08:07:17 PM
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 08:18:31 PM
Kain....
Your true argument comes out with your last statement. I couldn't more disgusted with it by the way. I have done nothing to you and your season. Don't blame the people that take advantage of opportunity that is presented to them. Our deer problem is not caused by any one person (or group of people) on this site. It is a result of your WDFW not managing appropriately. So you can't afford the tag....that by your own statement means I shouldn't buy it. Shame on you for making that statement. I can't afford the govenors tag so the person who can is taking an opportunity away from me??? :dunno: Come on think about your statements before you make them. This is nothing personal just simple logic.
I am not saying any one person or group is doing this to me. I am saying that instead of restoring a general season that has been eroding for decades they are switching to a "pay more to play" system. The cost of our tags have gone up and up but the quality and length of the general seasons has gone to crap. Unless you want to, and can, pay more. If thats what people are happy with then so be it.
If the deer number can handle additional pressure (which I dont feel they can) then why not restore what has been taken? The answer is money. I am not interested in archery vs rifle vs multi season in-fighting. We hunters need to be on the same side and protect what we have. If everyone is happy loosing more general season for a shot at a multi season tag every few years I will just have to live with it. But wouldnt it be nice if they were managing the game so that the quality and odds for the general season hunters was better?
They come to us and say:
"Man, the deer numbers are really suffering we need to shorten the season-but leave the cost the same of course".
Then a few years later they come back and say:
"Well the deer are doing well now we are going to start charging more to hunt those deer".
Just doenst seem right to me. But hey there is always hunters that will be happy with less guys in the woods. :tup:
Post by: grundy53 on November 30, 2011, 08:53:09 PM
I'm not saying this pertains to everyone. In my case, I can take a legal deer in archery season on a regular basis. The multi tag lets me take a better deer. Just because you buy multi tag does not meen more deer are killed. I would agree with maybe more mature deer are killed. If you factor that number in to how many of the multi tag guys are killing deer I don't think your increase in total kills is going to be as big as you think.
Using the harvest report stats above:
If a hundred guys have over the counter general season tags the harvest rate is 24% (24 deer)
If that same hundred guys draw multiseason permits their harvest rate goes up to 42% (42 deer)
So yes more deer will be killed.
If you were arguing for the other side you could counter that by saying that if someone was going to pay that much for the multi season tag, then they probably are more likely to be a dedicated hunter and not one of those guys that buys their lisence and a box of shells the day before season. Therefore they were probably more likely to be successful, whether they had the MS tag or not. Which could explain the higher success rate....
Post by: Hunterman on November 30, 2011, 08:54:25 PM
I still for the life of me cannot understand why people think this multi-season permit is such a great idea..For the amount of money this state NOW charges for something that was taken away from us for a hell of a lot less..The most that I ever paid for a PERMITT (over the counter) so that I could hunt with a muzzle loader, or a bow, or both along with a rifle was $5.00.. That was back before this great state MADE us choose what weapon we wanted to hunt with, and were did you want to hunt elk..Hey they gave us 5 thats right 5 choices for elk :IBCOOL: that was damn nice of them..Take my state wide elk tag away from me, and have me pick were I wanted to hunt elk :tup: And then cut the time to hunt them,and then let me have a chance to hunt them in t-shirts...Damn nice of them.. Oh yeah it was all in the name of reducing the pressure on our elk herds...
Lets add all this GREAT stuff up and see just what the cost is for this GREAT opportunity:
Deer and Elk = 82.50 (plus agents fees 2.00)
multi-season application fee : 6.60 each =13.20 (plus agents fees 2.00 each)
Drawing multi season permits: 181.50 each (congrats you drew both :tup:) 363.00
for a grand total of= $462.70 ( subtract 181.50 if you only drew one for $ 281.20)
Damn what a deal for just ONE deer, or elk..What a deal.. :bs
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 09:08:34 PM
If you were arguing for the other side you could counter that by saying that if someone was going to pay that much for the multi season tag, then they probably are more likely to be a dedicated hunter and not one of those guys that buys their lisence and a box of shells the day before season. Therefore they were probably more likely to be successful, whether they had the MS tag or not. Which could explain the higher success rate....
So only dedicated hunters apply for multi season tags? :chuckle: :dunno: I guess we will never know whether the guys that draw and buy multi season tags are a different caliber of hunter than the general public. Maybe they have better than average harvest rates and kill a deer every other year without the multi tag. The argument could be the other way and that these guys want to increase their odds with a multiseason permit because they are less than average. :dunno:
The only thing we know for certain is that harvest success rate goes up for those that buy these tags. Which is the whole point of the tags after all.
Post by: grundy53 on November 30, 2011, 09:24:05 PM
If you were arguing for the other side you could counter that by saying that if someone was going to pay that much for the multi season tag, then they probably are more likely to be a dedicated hunter and not one of those guys that buys their lisence and a box of shells the day before season. Therefore they were probably more likely to be successful, whether they had the MS tag or not. Which could explain the higher success rate....
So only dedicated hunters apply for multi season tags? :chuckle: :dunno: I guess we will never know whether the guys that draw and buy multi season tags are a different caliber of hunter than the general public. Maybe they have better than average harvest rates and kill a deer every other year without the multi tag. The argument could be the other way and that these guys want to increase their odds with a multiseason permit because they are less than average. :dunno:
The only thing we know for certain is that harvest success rate goes up for those that buy these tags. Which is the whole point of the tags after all.
I'm not talking about the people that apply. I'm talking about the people that actually pay the $180.00 dollars for the tag (not to mention buy/ borrow a rifle, bow and/or muzzleloader. Plus ammo/arrows). For most people that's quite a bit of money to spend on one in state tag. Stands to reason that if you were not very dedicated then you wuldn't spend that much money when you could just by a normal tag for a fraction of the price. This is just another one of those devisive issues. If you have your mind set one way then your probably not going to be swayed the other way. Personally I could care less if they have a MS tag or not. I'm just making an argument to refute WDFW's irrifutable statistics...
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 09:27:17 PM
Now with elk, I think harvest rates would definitely be higher for those with the multi-season tag, because most people will kill the first legal elk they see. At least that's how I am. I would want the multi-season elk tag for a better chance of bringing home an elk- any elk. I would want the multi-season deer just for the chance to hunt more often, and with friends and/or family who I otherwise may not have had a chance to hunt with.
Either way I still believe multi-season tags for both deer and elk are bound to increase the harvest of animals. Whether that's a significant amount or not, who knows. I do feel that 8500 deer tags is way too many. However in a selfish way I like knowing that my odds of drawing just went up.
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 09:36:11 PM
I'm not talking about the people that apply. I'm talking about the people that actually pay the $180.00 dollars for the tag (not to mention buy/ borrow a rifle, bow and/or muzzleloader. Plus ammo/arrows). For most people that's quite a bit of money to spend on one in state tag. Stands to reason that if you were not very dedicated then you wuldn't spend that much money when you could just by a normal tag for a fraction of the price. This is just another one of those devisive issues. If you have your mind set one way then your probably not going to be swayed the other way. Personally I could care less if they have a MS tag or not. I'm just making an argument to refute WDFW's irrifutable statistics...
I hear ya. Of course the guy that pays the extra cash is gonna put in a lot of effort so it doesnt go to waste. Hell I feel that way about my general season tag. It is probably an average cross section of the general hunters that buys the tags though. The percentage of does to bucks taken is almost exactly the same as the general season.
They may pass up some animals waiting for a bigger one. Maybe they will be less likely to eat the tag than a general season hunter. We just dont know.
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 09:44:15 PM
I see the only reason given for the increase in tags is that it "expands opportunity for deer and elk hunters". Boy you'd think they'd come up with something a little more convincing than that. :dunno:
:chuckle: Yes its all for the hunters.
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 10:10:19 PM
Seasons have been shortened over the years because of too much pressure on the animals. I would like to see them managing the game to keep or increase the general seasons. Instead they are only looking for ways to make more money and I dont trust that the game can handle more pressure. If it can then why not restore some of the season we have lost? The answer is because they wont make any additional money from that. What are you going to get for that extra money? Nothing it is only to maintain the departement we already have.
Once they take something it is gone and you will have to pay to get it back. Thats great if you can afford it. Kind of sucks if you cant or wont.
Post by: nwhunter on November 30, 2011, 10:26:11 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2011, 10:46:18 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 30, 2011, 10:49:18 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 30, 2011, 11:07:22 PM
Post by: Kain on November 30, 2011, 11:41:31 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/
Post by: sakoshooter on December 01, 2011, 12:07:31 AM
Post by: bullcanyon on December 01, 2011, 06:23:06 AM
Post by: ing on December 01, 2011, 07:34:45 AM
Post by: CedarPants on December 01, 2011, 07:40:44 AM
Post by: bobcat on December 01, 2011, 07:55:04 AM
Quote
I personaly don't see why someone would spend the 6.00 to enter the draw then not buy the tag.
Well, I can think of several reasons for that. First is that they didn't even know they had to pay for the tag if drawn. I know many people in the past have had the mistaken impression that the only cost was the $6 application fee. Either that or they just didn't realize it cost as much as it does ($180).
Or it could be that someone might draw both deer and elk and only wanted to spend the money on one of them, not both.
Also, another scenario is that some people, including me, might want to wait until after the special hunt permit results are available in May before purchasing the multi-season tag they drew. If I were to draw, say a modern firearm late mule deer hunt, I would not want to waste the $180 on the multi-season tag, because I would only want to hunt the late hunt I drew.
Post by: kirkl on December 01, 2011, 08:03:55 AM
a late buck tag last year.
Post by: bullcanyon on December 01, 2011, 08:09:22 AM
Post by: colockumelk on December 01, 2011, 09:08:37 AM
But at the same time, more time to hunt isn't necessarily more time hunting the same animal. My archery, modern, muzzy units aren't the same either by choice or by regulation. So when one ends it's not like come back next week with a different weapon.
True, but also not relevant. Success rates will go up, and more animals will be killed, period.
Yep on average across WA state deer success percentage for a general season tag holder is 24%. The success percentage for multi-season tag holders was 47%. Almost doubled.
Post by: ing on December 01, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
If you buy it before the permit deadline then you can put in for all three weapons if you want....QuoteI personaly don't see why someone would spend the 6.00 to enter the draw then not buy the tag.
Well, I can think of several reasons for that. First is that they didn't even know they had to pay for the tag if drawn. I know many people in the past have had the mistaken impression that the only cost was the $6 application fee. Either that or they just didn't realize it cost as much as it does ($180).
Or it could be that someone might draw both deer and elk and only wanted to spend the money on one of them, not both.
Also, another scenario is that some people, including me, might want to wait until after the special hunt permit results are available in May before purchasing the multi-season tag they drew. If I were to draw, say a modern firearm late mule deer hunt, I would not want to waste the $180 on the multi-season tag, because I would only want to hunt the late hunt I drew.
Post by: blacktailcrzy on January 02, 2012, 06:52:38 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 02, 2012, 07:07:05 PM
The stat I would like to see for this year is the number of applications sold. If they drew 4000 last year and only 1500 bought the tag, increasing to 8000 is not necessarily going to increas the number of tags sold by much.
Going back to the kill. If 10% of the general season hunters are succesful versus the 20% with a multi tag, that means 10% of the multi tag hunters were going to get a deer anyway. You have to remove that number from your total increased dear kill numbers.
The numbers of deer killed due to a multi season tag is pretty small in my opinion. If you want to complain about increased deer kills lets attack the second deer tag. I had that this year allso and was able to fill that too.
That is basically the exact conversation I had with F&W a couple of years ago and I was told nearly verbatim what you have stated.
They told me that the typical purchaser of the multi-season permit was someone who is a serious, successful hunter who will harvest an animal with or without the multi anyway so the harvest numbers won't really change.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 02, 2012, 07:17:20 PM
But at the same time, more time to hunt isn't necessarily more time hunting the same animal. My archery, modern, muzzy units aren't the same either by choice or by regulation. So when one ends it's not like come back next week with a different weapon.
True, but also not relevant. Success rates will go up, and more animals will be killed, period.
Not always.
I had the multi I could have killed a couple does and spike during early archery season, but I didn't because I wanted to hunt modern late buck. Passed on two spikes during general modern. Passed on two spikes (twice) during muzzy wanting to hold out for at least a 2pt and when I was able to get out during late archery I only saw one doe.
Tag soup for me...even with the multi. BUT if I didn't have the multi I would have shot what ever was legal for my method.
Post by: NoBark on January 02, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 02, 2012, 07:37:37 PM
But at the same time, more time to hunt isn't necessarily more time hunting the same animal. My archery, modern, muzzy units aren't the same either by choice or by regulation. So when one ends it's not like come back next week with a different weapon.
True, but also not relevant. Success rates will go up, and more animals will be killed, period.
Not always.
I had the multi I could have killed a couple does and spike during early archery season, but I didn't because I wanted to hunt modern late buck. Passed on two spikes during general modern. Passed on two spikes (twice) during muzzy wanting to hold out for at least a 2pt and when I was able to get out during late archery I only saw one doe.
Tag soup for me...even with the multi. BUT if I didn't have the multi I would have shot what ever was legal for my method.
Yes that's definitely something that could happen to a lot of the multi-season tag holders. I guess I should retract the statement that I made, that you quoted. I know for me having the multi-season tag could very well DECREASE the odds of me killing a deer. Because I would do just what you did and hold out for something big all the way up to the end, just mainly due to the fact that I paid an extra $180 for the tag. I wouldn't want to shoot something early and then feel like I wasted my money. So I guess if everybody thinks the same way the overall success rate for the multi tag holders could be lower than for everyone else.
Post by: Bob33 on January 02, 2012, 07:38:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 02, 2012, 07:50:26 PM
The data indicates that multi-season permit holders have higher harvest rates overall. Your mileage may vary.
Right, and that's what I was going by in my previous post.
Post by: Turner89 on January 02, 2012, 08:32:49 PM
Same here. The only time I didnt tag out in the last eight years was two years ago when I had the multi tag. I will buy it every year if I am drawn.But at the same time, more time to hunt isn't necessarily more time hunting the same animal. My archery, modern, muzzy units aren't the same either by choice or by regulation. So when one ends it's not like come back next week with a different weapon.
True, but also not relevant. Success rates will go up, and more animals will be killed, period.
Not always.
I had the multi I could have killed a couple does and spike during early archery season, but I didn't because I wanted to hunt modern late buck. Passed on two spikes during general modern. Passed on two spikes (twice) during muzzy wanting to hold out for at least a 2pt and when I was able to get out during late archery I only saw one doe.
Tag soup for me...even with the multi. BUT if I didn't have the multi I would have shot what ever was legal for my method.
Post by: huntnnw on January 03, 2012, 12:15:16 AM
Post by: buckfvr on January 03, 2012, 10:48:51 AM
Post by: muzbuster on January 03, 2012, 11:01:04 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 04, 2012, 05:32:38 AM
The data indicates that multi-season permit holders have higher harvest rates overall. Your mileage may vary.
And according to WDFW it is the type of hunter purchasing the multi that makes the difference.
Post by: 400out on January 04, 2012, 07:06:03 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 18, 2012, 11:41:00 AM
If it is all about money they should want to sell them all and an over the counter thing would ensure they sold more I would think.
Post by: Eli346 on January 18, 2012, 12:38:54 PM
I see your point about season length and harvest rates or percentages and I agree in a sense. I think that a lot of the people that put in for the multi-season just love to be out in the woods like I do. If that buck of a lifetime happens to come along then I have the option of tagging it if possible. I'm out there scouting and setting up trail cams anyway so I may as well take advantage of it.
I've drawn the deer 3 times and the elk only once and during those times I've taken only one deer during those tags. I find myself being so selective that I end up eating tag soup without any regrets. What I like about it is that you get the adrenalin flow going any time you're out in the woods but it increases when you're actually hunting.
I think that with the cost staying high it will keep most of the less dedicated 'hunters' out of the mix leaving only the hardcore guys out there actually chasing them around. I've been out there for the duration for decades now and the pressure is getting more intense but I really do believe that the multi-season is only a very small part of that. Hunting seems to be getting more popular although I'm not sure if tag and license sales indicate that. I know that as access decreases, pressure increases and it will only get worse in the years to come. Rifle season for elk or deer is a zoo anymore so my being able to get out during the bow and muzzle loading season with a tag is a bonus I'm willing to spend the extra money on. I hope they keep the price of the tags high to filter out the 'wannabes'.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 18, 2012, 12:46:21 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 18, 2012, 01:10:25 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 18, 2012, 01:11:30 PM
Sort of takes the State's argument away that dividing us up by weapon takes pressure off the deer and elk. I guess pressure is OK as long as the State gets their money. What this will eventually do is shorten the season for everybody who doesn't draw one of these tags as it's been shown that any season hunters have a higher success rate than one season hunters. The more successful they are, the less animals left for the regular season.
People complain that the seasons are to crowded. People complain the do not want to loose the general over the counter tag season. People complain they have to choose a weapon. People complain they don't have an option to hunt more than one season. People complain that there is an expensive option to hunt all general seasons but still harvest one animal.
There was a total harvest of 33,778 deer harvested in 2009. There were 136,859 thousand deer hunters.
2000 multi-season tag permits were sold. Half harvested a deer. If you were to take those people and replace them with standard general season statisitcs then you would half the half to 500 deer. That would change the harvest by .0148%. It's a voluntary system, don't like it don't buy it.
They offer 2 pole multi season and other incentive voluntary participation and we complain. They raise general prices and we complain. The lower tags and we complain. They raise the number of tags and options and we complain. :bash:
Maybe ignoring us makes sense.
Post by: bobcat on January 18, 2012, 01:14:01 PM
Quote
Maybe ignoring us makes sense.
Well said! :chuckle:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 18, 2012, 04:38:32 PM
Heck, if they need the money that bad, why not just do away with the games and have an over the counter any season tag that anyone can buy? Just leave it up to the hunter if they want to pay the money so they can have a longer season. Some will, some won't.
Post by: wsmnut on January 18, 2012, 05:04:23 PM
Once they figure out what folks will pay, then we might see a change we really don't like.
In other words there maybe more to this than just short term cash flow.
Wsmnut
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 18, 2012, 08:11:00 PM
Not complaining. Just trying to see where this is going. As they need more money are they going to keep upping the quota of any season tags? What next 16,000 any season deer tags? Then 32,000? They seem to like doubling what the current rate is.
Heck, if they need the money that bad, why not just do away with the games and have an over the counter any season tag that anyone can buy? Just leave it up to the hunter if they want to pay the money so they can have a longer season. Some will, some won't.
Well, Idaho has a program like you are talking about. Until wolves they were able to handle it. I don't want to see harvest double or triple. That would lead to a closing of a general season and it would go permit. But even if the number of sold multi season doubled and all other factors stayed the same that would be a harvest increase of .03%. I hardly think that is a sky is falling situation. If it is then how can you be such a strong advocate for wolves? Not a highjack here, an example. It is a choice, don't like it don't participate. If it violates your ethics don't participate. If others do participate it is a difference of .0148% to a potential of .03% in the total harvest. Not a big deal. We have bigger issues to deal with IMO. Also, pretty much for deer if you put in you will probably draw so what you say exists. :o