Post by: fireweed on March 07, 2012, 02:59:19 PM
The new definition:" Includes all land and land types managed by the Washington State
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), other than aquatic lands, for which
a Discover Pass or day-use permit is required."
The original bill had a discount for hunting/fishing. That went quick.
The DNR will have to spend any $ they get for policing the Discover Pass on EVERY SINGLE ACRE.
:bash:
Just got thrown under the bus again.
Post by: NRA4LIFE on March 07, 2012, 03:02:39 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 07, 2012, 03:05:30 PM
This state is a total bunch of crooks....
Post by: fireweed on March 07, 2012, 03:13:50 PM
Includes all land and land types managed by the Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR), other than aquatic lands, for which a Discover Pass or day-use permit is required.
Exempts possessor of a daily Sno-Park permit from requiring a Discover Pass or day-use permit at designated Sno-Parks.
Modifies the validity of the Discover Pass to begin when the pass has been marked for activation.
Allows for the single purchase of a Discover Pass or Vehicle Access Pass to be valid for two license plate numbers.
Limits any transaction and dealer fee that causes the price of the Discover
Pass or day-use permit to exceed the price in statute to be assessed only for those purchased through the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife's (WDFW) automated licensing system.
*Allows for the Discover Pass and day-use permit to be obtained by retailers.
*Expands the options of where a Discover Pass and day-use permit can be purchased and authorizes the Washington State Parks and Recreation
Commission (State Parks) to utilize unstaffed collection stations.
Redistributes local sales and use tax revenues assessed at the State Parks from local jurisdictions to a dedicated account within the State Parks.
Provides a complimentary Discover Pass to eligible disabled Washington veterans.
Requires free access days at state parks and suggests they be timed with National Park Service free days.
Codifies that the DNR, the WDFW, and the State Parks must designate free 15-minute short-term parking.
Adds exemptions for certain circumstances from requiring the Discover Pass or day-use permit.
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
Requires the agencies to develop proposals for finding consistent state
recreational policies where inconsistencies exist and to report findings to the Legislature.
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on March 07, 2012, 03:16:24 PM
Post by: 400out on March 07, 2012, 03:24:01 PM
Post by: high country on March 07, 2012, 03:38:15 PM
Post by: 400out on March 07, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 07, 2012, 03:50:35 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 07, 2012, 03:52:33 PM
Post by: kirkl on March 07, 2012, 03:59:02 PM
Post by: rtspring on March 07, 2012, 03:59:33 PM
Post by: kirkl on March 07, 2012, 04:01:33 PM
Post by: The Weazle on March 07, 2012, 04:08:33 PM
Sexually deprived for your freedom!
Post by: Machias on March 07, 2012, 04:08:44 PM
10 dollars
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on March 07, 2012, 04:10:36 PM
like replacing rifles the game departments takes from you. lol, sorry i couldnt resist :)
YA STUFF LIKE THAT!!! LMAO
Post by: Bigtine96 on March 07, 2012, 04:17:09 PM
The only thing I have discovered is they are a bunch of crooks and thieves.
Post by: bigtex on March 07, 2012, 04:48:13 PM
Looks like they closed that loophole (and potential lawsuit like the USFS just had) yesterday with bill 2373.
Once again Fireweed the federal lawsuit only applies to federal lands, this is because the court found the USFS was violating the federal lands fee law. The federal lands fee law only applies to federal lands. So when you keep saying that the legislature is doing this to prevent lawsuit, it is a complete lie.
Post by: billythekidrock on March 07, 2012, 05:13:43 PM
Dear Colleagues,
Here’s where we stand on Monday Morning, March 05 with the legislature. I apologize for the rather long report, so if you are uninterested, please feel free to delete.
I expect that most of you are wanting to understand where we are at with legislative issues because the details of the progress of the Discover Pass legislation and budget deliberations are relevant right now to your day-to-day work. The public is asking many of you what is happening to the future of state parks, and legislative actions seems just so consequential to us now.
A. The Discover Pass:
The House passed its version of the major piece of Discover Pass legislation for the session - ESSHB 2373 . Here are its highlights:
1. 2-vehicle transferability for $30 per year. This would take place immediately and retroactively for all folks who have already purchased a pass. No refunds for those who have already purchased to passes would be allowed.
2. Flexibility on when the Discover Pass activation starts (will make gifting easier).
3. Expansion to all of DNR's uplands which would be subject to the pass requirement.
4. Broadening locations and methods of sale.
5. Provides as an option that the agencies may choose to offer a $50 fully transferable pass that is called a “Family Discover Pass.” The word “family” is a misnomer, in that the pass could be used by anyone, inside the same household or not.
6. Provides for wholesaling of the pass at the discretion of State Parks. For example, we could sell the pass to our Friends Groups for $28, and they would sell it for $30 and use the difference to support their program. Alternatively, we could establish an incentive program with Costco, selling them the pass for a discount if they purchase in advance a certain number of passes.
7. Special Events could, at the discretion of the agency, be exempt from the Discover Pass, if they pay other fees to state parks. For example, a wedding party could pay a flat fee for rental of a portion of a park, and within designated parking areas, wedding guests wouldn’t need to have the Discover Pass. This provision will work well with the policy that is up for C omission consideration at the end of this month.
8. Eliminates requirement to get a Discover Pass if visitor already has a Sno-Park day pass.
9. A number of technical corrections to the law, all of which are helpful.
10. Directs Hotel/Motel Tax receipts from State Parks lodging and camping to go back to State Parks. This is about $300,000 per year.
11. Creates a 3-year temporary $10 RV license surcharge that would net the agency in excess of $2 million per year.
12. Expands the existing Opt-Out vehicle donation program to additional vehicles (like snowmobiles, mopeds, and ¾ ton pick-up trucks.)
13. Contains an emergency clause to have it enforced immediately upon the governor’s signature.
The Senate has taken up ESSHB 2373 and it is now on the floor, having already passed from Ways and Means and Rules Committees without a hearing. Senator Ranker, the prime sponsor of earlier Senate Discover Pass 2-vehcle transferability legislation, is the point person for this bill. He has put in a “striker amendment” for consideration. It has already been pulled off the floor and put back in once, and there is no reason to believe that it wouldn’t get modified again before actual debate begins. But the core provisions of the amendment, changes ESSHB2373 in the following ways:
1. Removes the option for wholesaling, but expands the option for charging vendor fees above the $30 amount to all contracted vendors. It also doesn’t set a limit on those dealer fees.
2. Doesn’t change the requirement to get a Discover Pass for daily Sno-Park pass holders
3. Eliminates RV license surcharge
4. Eliminates Opt-Out expansion
The Senate debate on the Discover Pass was scheduled to proceed on Friday, when a major event transformed the evening. Three Senate Democrats went over to support Senate Republicans on their budget, including support on all procedural issues. So, the Discover Pass, and many other issues were relegated to secondary status. At this point, it is not clear when the bill will be taken back up, but it could be as early as Monday or as late as… well, if the budget deliberations become insurmountable in the next 4 days, our Discover Pass legislation and much else, may be still on the docket if/when a Special Session is called.
Finally, here’s what we don’t know. The Senate may choose to adopt its version near the end of the session and try to pressure the House to simply adopt it or adopt nothing. Or, it could go back and forth a couple of times, or it could go to a conference committee. Everyone I talk with is confident that something will pass. But the brinksmanship is on now.
B. Budget - Revenues
There are still several bills and movements in place to try to get State Parks additional funding. There appears to be broad bi-partisan desire to assist State Parks in some fashion, but of course, the how and how much is where there are differences.
SB6387 has passed both chambers and awaits the Governor’s signature or veto. This bill directs all fines from Discover Pass citations to go into the 3-agency Discover Pass account. This is projected to provide in the range of $1,400,000 per biennium.
Here is what is still in play in the Legislature:
1. Expanding the Parks donation “opt-out” to additional vehicles. It’s in the House Discover Pass bill but not in Senator Ranker’s striker amendment.
2. Adding an RV license surcharge of $10 per vehicle. It’s in the House Discover Pass bill but not in Senator Ranker’s striker amendment.
3. Hotel/Motel tax funds. It’s in the House Discover Pass bill but not in Senator Ranker’s striker amendment.
4. A one-time transfer of $4 million from DNR’s ALEA fund (Aquatic Lands Enhancement Account) to State Parks. These are funds derived from aquatic leasing (like geoduck beds), that normally have gone for water access capital projects. The Senate-passed budget includes these funds. Neither of the House Democratic nor Republican budgets include these funds.
Both chambers and both caucuses appear to be seeking about $4.5 million in additional revenue to help State Parks this biennium. Again, as long as there is not a strange and squished end of the session, it is looking promising that not only will the agency take a zero hit on its existing $17 million General Fund appropriation, but we have a good chance of getting those additional revenues of about $4.5 million.
Both the House and Senate budgets at this point also contain supplemental capital funds for State Parks. The most House Democratic version contains $9,930,000 and the Senate Democratic version contains $8,930,000. The Senate version provides a bit more flexibility for State Parks in how it is spent, and does not contain Certificates of Participation, which are financial instruments that require us to pay back the cost of the capital improvement from our operating funds.
C. Budget – Provisos
Currently, the Senate budget has a proviso that requires State Parks to remove trees that are dead or dying from the fire at Brooks Memorial State Park by September 30, 2012. For several practical reasons, the agency is expressing concern to legislators about this provision, though we do intend to remove trees by next winter. There has also been much discussion about the potential for a budget proviso requiring, directing, or encouraging the agency to transfer Fort Worden State Park to a local Public Development Authority. As of now, no such proviso is included in any budget proposed or passed by either chamber or party.
I hope you find this report helpful. It is possible that the legislature will complete its work on March 8, the end of the regular session. Or, a special session may be needed. I will be sure to get back to you soon after completion of the legislators work, or in about 2 weeks, whichever comes first.
Take care,
Daniel
Post by: YellowDog on March 07, 2012, 05:18:01 PM
I am not buying sheet ...never have and never will ... they give me a ticket I will be taking it to the Supreme court .....This is BS and we should not be letting these arz holes keep taking our freedom >:( Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :yeah:When you say you will take it to the supreme court i have to wonder if you are an attormey, indepemdently wealthy, and/ or retired?
If not your looking at a lot of time and expense for a $100ticket
Post by: washelkhunter on March 07, 2012, 05:31:27 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on March 07, 2012, 05:42:41 PM
The money grab and BS to hunt public land has me feeling sour. I can buy an out of state deer tag that comes with 2 does for $255 in South Dakota (for example).
What a damn wreck and the real problem is..........................it's not going to get better, only worse.
Post by: high country on March 07, 2012, 05:44:55 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on March 07, 2012, 05:48:25 PM
Quote
The Discover Pass legislation provided that State Parks could designate up to 12 “free days” when the pass would not be required to visit state parks
They give us FREE days to visit STATE PARKS!!!!!!!
:DOH:
Post by: high country on March 07, 2012, 05:49:06 PM
Post by: wraithen on March 07, 2012, 05:51:36 PM
I wish they would just raise the price to $500 so we can get this revolution on its way.
Do you mean because we will all be hunting for free?
Post by: carver52 on March 07, 2012, 05:58:09 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on March 07, 2012, 06:47:04 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 07, 2012, 06:54:41 PM
Hey Gringo. Im thinking of deer hunting out of state as well. SD sounds like a bargain. When is the season in SD?
Yeah, that sounds cheap, figure about $1000 in fuel just in getting there and back.
Plus motels, food, hunting license and tags, time off work, etc. :DOH:
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 07, 2012, 07:04:13 PM
Am I reading this correctly that when my RV tabs come due, there will be a $10 state parks support fee automatically tacked on to my tabs purchase? My RV has never seen a State Park, and probably never will, yet I have to pay some jacked up fee for a renewal and stewardship account that I will never experience said "stewardship" between now and July 2015 (and we know it will get a forever extension, who are they kidding).
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
I find it a bit humorous that this bill only allows tsunami clean up as a method of volunteer hours for a free pass. No freebies here.... :rolleyes:
Post by: The Weazle on March 07, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
Am I reading this correctly that when my RV tabs come due, there will be a $10 state parks support fee automatically tacked on to my tabs purchase? My RV has never seen a State Park, and probably never will, yet I have to pay some jacked up fee for a renewal and stewardship account that I will never experience said "stewardship" between now and July 2015 (and we know it will get a forever extension, who are they kidding).
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
I find it a bit humorous that this bill only allows tsunami clean up as a method of volunteer hours for a free pass. No freebies here.... :rolleyes:
I'm with ya...If I get my renewal notice and that is on there, I am going to start making some phone calls. I might even camp out on the governors lawn in my RV to get my $10 worth. Maybe I will get Jesse. I dont know...but this gives me time to plan!!!
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 07, 2012, 07:28:02 PM
I'll go. Yeah, it's only $10 but it's the damn principal of the matter on this one.Am I reading this correctly that when my RV tabs come due, there will be a $10 state parks support fee automatically tacked on to my tabs purchase? My RV has never seen a State Park, and probably never will, yet I have to pay some jacked up fee for a renewal and stewardship account that I will never experience said "stewardship" between now and July 2015 (and we know it will get a forever extension, who are they kidding).
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
I find it a bit humorous that this bill only allows tsunami clean up as a method of volunteer hours for a free pass. No freebies here.... :rolleyes:
I'm with ya...If I get my renewal notice and that is on there, I am going to start making some phone calls. I might even camp out on the governors lawn in my RV to get my $10 worth. Maybe I will get Jesse. I dont know...but this gives me time to plan!!!
My renewal notice should be here in the mail by the end of the month for early May renewal, I would guess.
I guess it depends on when this takes effect if this will hit me this year or next year.
Post by: The Weazle on March 07, 2012, 07:32:02 PM
Post by: predatorpro on March 07, 2012, 07:36:23 PM
For the first time in my life I am thinking about no longer hunting in this state. I just want to archery hunt mule deer, hunt elk if I'm drawn and love to hunt predators. The only time I've wanted to hunt discover pass areas is to chase predators. I'm thinking that the predators I remove should grant me a deer a year and maybe even the chance to chase an elk.i agree im going to buy a small game license here for coyotes and probly go hunt deer and elk in another state just cuz washington is pissing me off so bad!
The money grab and BS to hunt public land has me feeling sour. I can buy an out of state deer tag that comes with 2 does for $255 in South Dakota (for example).
What a damn wreck and the real problem is..........................it's not going to get better, only worse.
Post by: washelkhunter on March 07, 2012, 07:41:35 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on March 07, 2012, 07:55:52 PM
Same here...Its gonna be cheaper to camp on her lawn and go to jail than it is to use our public lands. I've never camped in a state park, and dont plan on it. How is it even legal for them to charge us for something like that. I bet most people won't even know they are getting charged for it, kind of like the donation you are already charged for state parks now on vehicle registration that you have to deduct when you pay the tabs...I paid it a few times not knowing, and when I showed my wife, she really got pissed!!!
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: washelkhunter on March 07, 2012, 08:04:55 PM
Post by: Cap.Silver on March 07, 2012, 08:15:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 07, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
After reading all posts I really think Washelkhunters idea is the only solution on how to let the people in Olympia know our opinion .....
Or just don't buy a Discover pass. I'm not. I have lots of places to hunt, including state land, where I don't need a Discover pass. It wouldn't be so bad if the money actually went to DNR, but 84% goes to Parks, 8% goes to the WDFW, and 8% goes to DNR.
Post by: DoubleJ on March 07, 2012, 08:45:35 PM
Brief Summary of Engrossed Second Substitute Bill and all it does:
Includes all land and land types managed by the Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR), other than aquatic lands, for which a Discover Pass or day-use permit is required.
Exempts possessor of a daily Sno-Park permit from requiring a Discover Pass or day-use permit at designated Sno-Parks.
Modifies the validity of the Discover Pass to begin when the pass has been marked for activation.
Allows for the single purchase of a Discover Pass or Vehicle Access Pass to be valid for two license plate numbers.
Limits any transaction and dealer fee that causes the price of the Discover
Pass or day-use permit to exceed the price in statute to be assessed only for those purchased through the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife's (WDFW) automated licensing system.
*Allows for the Discover Pass and day-use permit to be obtained by retailers.
*Expands the options of where a Discover Pass and day-use permit can be purchased and authorizes the Washington State Parks and Recreation
Commission (State Parks) to utilize unstaffed collection stations.
Redistributes local sales and use tax revenues assessed at the State Parks from local jurisdictions to a dedicated account within the State Parks.
Provides a complimentary Discover Pass to eligible disabled Washington veterans.
Requires free access days at state parks and suggests they be timed with National Park Service free days.
Codifies that the DNR, the WDFW, and the State Parks must designate free 15-minute short-term parking.
Adds exemptions for certain circumstances from requiring the Discover Pass or day-use permit.
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
Requires the agencies to develop proposals for finding consistent state
recreational policies where inconsistencies exist and to report findings to the Legislature.
Where/how does one qualify and acquire under this exemption?
Post by: washelkhunter on March 07, 2012, 08:53:50 PM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on March 07, 2012, 09:10:39 PM
Am I reading this correctly that when my RV tabs come due, there will be a $10 state parks support fee automatically tacked on to my tabs purchase? My RV has never seen a State Park, and probably never will, yet I have to pay some jacked up fee for a renewal and stewardship account that I will never experience said "stewardship" between now and July 2015 (and we know it will get a forever extension, who are they kidding).
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
I find it a bit humorous that this bill only allows tsunami clean up as a method of volunteer hours for a free pass. No freebies here.... :rolleyes:
Not just $10 but $13. There is $10 to support state parks that have rv sites and $3 towards construction and maintenance of rv dump sites.
Double J I think it is the same requirement as qualifying for the disabled veterans hunting license. Which is 30 or 40% VA rating.
Post by: Klyne3 on March 07, 2012, 09:45:57 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on March 08, 2012, 07:11:46 AM
Am I reading this correctly that when my RV tabs come due, there will be a $10 state parks support fee automatically tacked on to my tabs purchase? My RV has never seen a State Park, and probably never will, yet I have to pay some jacked up fee for a renewal and stewardship account that I will never experience said "stewardship" between now and July 2015 (and we know it will get a forever extension, who are they kidding).
Adds to the types of vehicles for which the owners are given the opportunity to donate to state parks upon vehicle registration.
Creates a $10 state parks support fee on recreational vehicle registrations until
July 1, 2015, for deposit into the Parks Renewal and Stewardship Account,
with funds directed towards the operation and maintenance at the State Parks
that accommodate recreational vehicles.Creates an up to $50 Family Discover Pass that is transferable among any vehicle.
Allows tsunami cleanup to count as volunteer hours towards a free Discover Pass.
I find it a bit humorous that this bill only allows tsunami clean up as a method of volunteer hours for a free pass. No freebies here.... :rolleyes:
Not just $10 but $13. There is $10 to support state parks that have rv sites and $3 towards construction and maintenance of rv dump sites.
Double J I think it is the same requirement as qualifying for the disabled veterans hunting license. Which is 30 or 40% VA rating.
30% here :wave: Get my disabled hunting/fishing licenses. Where do I go to pick up my free Discover Pass?
Post by: Special T on March 08, 2012, 07:59:22 AM
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on March 08, 2012, 08:16:44 AM
Soooo, on top of the $3 you already had to pay you now have to pay $10 until 2015 to support State Parks that have overnite accomodations for RV's.
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 08, 2012, 08:24:14 AM
There is already a fee attached to you RV tags so is this in addition to the other fee? Or is this just the total $3?Not on my 2011 registration.
I wonder if this $3 did not include slide-in campers?
Or maybe they just forgot me. :chuckle:
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 08, 2012, 08:30:58 AM
I went back and reread the bill for the 43rd time. There was already $3 towards dump stations. They changed the name, reworded, and restructured the paragraph so I got confused. :sry:Not being a State Park inhabitant, the $3 is a joke.
Soooo, on top of the $3 you already had to pay you now have to pay $10 until 2015 to support State Parks that have overnite accomodations for RV's.
I dump turds at whichever is the most convenient to me and where I'm coming from:
a) Elk Heights or Smokey Point rest areas
b) Cook Road Shell
c) The sewer clean out in my driveway on it's way to my septic tank, which I put in specifically for this purpose
90% of the time it's c) with the a) or b) utilized the other 10% for the purpose of running a bunch of water into the tanks and sorta "rinsing" on my way home before it gets stored for the winter.
Post by: Dick in the Dirt on March 08, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Post by: The Weazle on March 08, 2012, 10:58:30 AM
All this talk about the Discover Pass,never have I seen anything on rising park rates for people that use the parks.Rates should be set at what it takes to maintain the parks.Years ago parks were the cheapest place to go with your Rv. KOA don't give away there spots and there still making money.
KOA is a business, if they didnt make money, they wouldnt be here anymore. State parks is a government run program...I cant explain it any better than that. My wifes Grandma is 96 and she has lived on the west side her whole life. She told me that the ferry's used to be private companies, and always made a profit. Then they were bought by the DOT and have lost money ever since...Wierd! She says you could give the state a whore house, and all the whores, and they would lose money in the first year!!!
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 27, 2012, 12:36:52 PM
KOA is a business, if they didnt make money, they wouldnt be here anymore. State parks is a government run program...I cant explain it any better than that. My wifes Grandma is 96 and she has lived on the west side her whole life. She told me that the ferry's used to be private companies, and always made a profit. Then they were bought by the DOT and have lost money ever since...Wierd! She says you could give the state a whore house, and all the whores, and they would lose money in the first year!!!
Now your grandmother is a lady I'd like to meet. Straight talkin'!
Post by: hirshey on March 27, 2012, 12:51:47 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on March 27, 2012, 01:21:59 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 27, 2012, 01:24:41 PM
The Chelan Butte has required a Discover Pass for the last year... I have never seen a "developed" site on that property. Odd.
If we are talking about the same area, Chelan Butte is a WDFW Wildlife Area and has always required the WDFW Pass and now either the WDFW Pass or Discover Pass is required.
Here is the map of the Chelan Butte unit of the Chelan Wildlfie Area.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/webmaps/gohunt/wildlife_area_pdf/wlau_chelan_butte.pdf
Post by: hirshey on March 27, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 27, 2012, 01:39:13 PM
I know exactly where it is.. :) The signs say specifically "Discover Pass" required, I'm pretty sure. :dunno:
All of the signs on DNR, WDFW, and Park lands say "Discover Pass" and are all the same signs. However, the signs at WDFW areas have some small writing which basically says you can use the WDFW pass as well.
Here is what the signs on WDFW areas look like: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=85084.0;attach=161937
And this is what they look like on DNR and Park lands: http://media.thenewstribune.com/smedia/2011/11/12/20/39/1dDhNR.St.5.JPG?height=400&width=600
Post by: hirshey on March 27, 2012, 01:42:29 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 27, 2012, 01:43:44 PM
Ooh tricksy. :) They fooled me; although I just used my WDFW pass and hiked anyways. :dunno:
Yup you would have been 100% legal then since it's a WDFW area.
Post by: uplandhunter870 on March 27, 2012, 01:58:17 PM
I know exactly where it is.. :) The signs say specifically "Discover Pass" required, I'm pretty sure. :dunno:
All of the signs on DNR, WDFW, and Park lands say "Discover Pass" and are all the same signs. However, the signs at WDFW areas have some small writing which basically says you can use the WDFW pass as well.
Here is what the signs on WDFW areas look like: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=85084.0;attach=161937
And this is what they look like on DNR and Park lands: http://media.thenewstribune.com/smedia/2011/11/12/20/39/1dDhNR.St.5.JPG?height=400&width=600
and watch in another month or so when all the hang gliders and para sailers start showing up and jumping off the top of the butte i bet you could go up there and do a real quick survey and not half of them will have any of the accepted passes to "use" the land and yet none will be ticketed, so really whats the point
Post by: hirshey on March 27, 2012, 02:16:57 PM
:yeah:I know exactly where it is.. :) The signs say specifically "Discover Pass" required, I'm pretty sure. :dunno:
All of the signs on DNR, WDFW, and Park lands say "Discover Pass" and are all the same signs. However, the signs at WDFW areas have some small writing which basically says you can use the WDFW pass as well.
Here is what the signs on WDFW areas look like: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=85084.0;attach=161937
And this is what they look like on DNR and Park lands: http://media.thenewstribune.com/smedia/2011/11/12/20/39/1dDhNR.St.5.JPG?height=400&width=600
and watch in another month or so when all the hang gliders and para sailers start showing up and jumping off the top of the butte i bet you could go up there and do a real quick survey and not half of them will have any of the accepted passes to "use" the land and yet none will be ticketed, so really whats the point
Post by: danderson on March 31, 2012, 10:32:49 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 31, 2012, 10:58:15 PM
I wasn't planning on purchasing one until I spoke to the local game warden, looks like just about everywhere I want to go its required, and I would rather pay 30.00 dollars, than a fine of 99.00, just my :twocents:
And don't forget, the fine is $200 if you're cited while driving without the pass. :bash:
Post by: danderson on April 01, 2012, 08:34:03 AM
Post by: bigtex on April 01, 2012, 09:25:07 AM
I dont quite understand how they can enforce the driving through a DNR area because most of kittitas county is included in the DNR protected zone, heck I live in a protected zone ?
If you are referring to a DNR protected zone as a fire response area you are confused in regards to the areas requiring the pass.
There is a lot of DNR land in Kittitas County, however USFS is the leading govt landowner in the county. There are also 5 very large WDFW Wildlife Areas. Prior to the recent change of all DNR land requiring the pass there were only three areas in Kittitas County under DNR jurisidiction which required the pass; Naneum Ridge State Forest, Indian Camp Campground and the Manastash Winter Rec Area.
Post by: danderson on April 01, 2012, 01:53:43 PM
If you are referring to a DNR protected zone as a fire response area you are confused in regards to the areas requiring the pass.
There is a lot of DNR land in Kittitas County, however USFS is the leading govt landowner in the county. There are also 5 very large WDFW Wildlife Areas. Prior to the recent change of all DNR land requiring the pass there were only three areas in Kittitas County under DNR jurisidiction which required the pass; Naneum Ridge State Forest, Indian Camp Campground and the Manastash Winter Rec Area.
I am confused, it would be nice to have the DNR clarify just exactly were the pass will be required, most of the lands in my community are in joint jurisdiction with a local rural fire protection district and DNR, we all pay an assessment on our property taxes already, for coverage to the DNR, and the fire district, very Little forest service land in the I-90 corridor, surrounding the communities from Easton to Elk height, mostly private and DNR, its way to vague to just say all DNR land?
Post by: bigtex on April 01, 2012, 02:16:43 PM
I am confused, it would be nice to have the DNR clarify just exactly were the pass will be required, most of the lands in my community are in joint jurisdiction with a local rural fire protection district and DNR, we all pay an assessment on our property taxes already, for coverage to the DNR, and the fire district, very Little forest service land in the I-90 corridor, surrounding the communities from Easton to Elk height, mostly private and DNR, its way to vague to just say all DNR land?
This has nothing at all to do with fire protection districts. It simply has to do with DNR OWNED lands.
If someone other then DNR owns the lands then the pass is not required.
Post by: stoegerhunter on April 01, 2012, 02:39:55 PM
I am confused, it would be nice to have the DNR clarify just exactly were the pass will be required, most of the lands in my community are in joint jurisdiction with a local rural fire protection district and DNR, we all pay an assessment on our property taxes already, for coverage to the DNR, and the fire district, very Little forest service land in the I-90 corridor, surrounding the communities from Easton to Elk height, mostly private and DNR, its way to vague to just say all DNR land?
This has nothing at all to do with fire protection districts. It simply has to do with DNR OWNED lands.
If someone other then DNR owns the lands then the pass is not required.
I see the signs posted on rayonier land as well. I'm guessing because there is state land in the back end but the road belongs to rayonier. So does this mean the state is basically taking my right away to drive down the road without a discover pass. So I'm basically limited to stay on the highway unless I have a pass. If this is true I think I deserve some of my tax dollars back that are paying for road repair and state land use. I mean if we can't use state land without a pass shouldn't the pass support the tax.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 01, 2012, 02:46:33 PM
You can ride a bike all you want.
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2012, 03:27:06 PM
I am confused, it would be nice to have the DNR clarify just exactly were the pass will be required, most of the lands in my community are in joint jurisdiction with a local rural fire protection district and DNR, we all pay an assessment on our property taxes already, for coverage to the DNR, and the fire district, very Little forest service land in the I-90 corridor, surrounding the communities from Easton to Elk height, mostly private and DNR, its way to vague to just say all DNR land?
There really isn't anywhere I can think around there that would require it. There is the LT Murray Wildlife Area, but for that you should be ok with your WDFW vehicle access pass.
Post by: danderson on April 01, 2012, 06:53:08 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 01, 2012, 07:06:36 PM
I was up to Joe watt the other day and the signs are up, discover pass required, same with colman canyon, I am assuming that means the LT Murray, way to many folks in these parts don't have any idea were it will be required, the state gets F for failing to properly implement the entire program, its becoming clear to me were our states problems have originated, from the top down.
Those are WDFW areas. You need to read the sign slowly. The signs for DNR/Parks are different then WDFW areas. On the WDFW signs there is some small writing that basically says WDFW vehicle access pass can also be used. However they look the same.
As of right now the only areas in Kittitas County with the DNR Discover Pass signs are the three areas I listed
Post by: Hunting7mm on April 01, 2012, 10:08:31 PM
Post by: wence5 on April 04, 2012, 02:07:09 PM
Maybe when they start the state income tax they will drop the discover pass....yeah right. They even say if they can pass the state income tax they could lower property and sales tax.......lower????
This state is a total bunch of crooks....
And I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale too. ;)
Post by: sidexside on April 05, 2012, 04:08:14 PM
Post by: mossy8352 on April 05, 2012, 04:29:26 PM
Maybe when they start the state income tax they will drop the discover pass....yeah right. They even say if they can pass the state income tax they could lower property and sales tax.......lower????
This state is a total bunch of crooks....
And I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale too. ;)
In Calif. they have state income tax, high sales tax property tax user fees and they still over spend. We need to take the credit card away with our votes and not allow the state income tax as it will not do one thing for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:
Post by: Special T on April 05, 2012, 10:28:02 PM
Write your legislators. User fees are the way that the state is moving. Think of the poor *censored*s that have to drive across the 520 bridge over Lake Washington every day. They pay more than $30 in a week. Once the leg decided to de-fund State Parks, they increased the fee that WDFW and DNR were proposing. I hate user fees, I'd rather just pay taxes, but that's the way things are going. Other states charge a lot more. California's access pass is a couple hundred bucks.
I want to be REAL clear about something. USER FEES ARE GOOD! the reason why this pass is so bad is because it is not a REAL user fee. Some years ago this state tried to institute a parking fee @ parks. Attendance dropped like a lead brick so they had to do away with it to justify parks. the DP is about making 1 group pay for an-others usage. IF you use state parks you should buy one and be happy to support it. I don't use parks and see this as a way for the state to make me pay for something i don't use. TRUE pay to play is fair because it puts the burden on those who use the resource. IF there was an equal distribution of $ between 3 agencies I would buy one in a heart beat. I plan on cutting back what i do to make a point. The state increased my fees on my hunting shack (trailer) and wants hunters and fishermen to pay for parks they don't use by offering up 2 LP numbers for the pass. F-U. I'm parking it for a year and won't travel on state lands. I'm even thinking i'm just gona only duck hunt instead of the full boat of lic this year.
Post by: predatorpro on April 05, 2012, 11:06:29 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 05, 2012, 11:16:22 PM
We as hunters, in general, do not use DNR's developed sites. If I did, that would be fine and I wouldn't mind paying a fee for that use. But I don't.
Even then I wouldn't mind so much if the Discover pass could be used on all four of my family's vehicles. As it is, if I bought it for hunting on DNR lands, I would have to pick whether to use if on my truck, or my Bronco II. Because the other vehicle it would go on is my wife's car so she could take the kids to the local state park. I don't want to decide between my two hunting vehicles. I should be albe to use whichever one I want at no additional cost.
Like I said before, State Parks needs to have their own individual pass, and DNR should have their own. The WDFW already had one and that's fine because we hunters get it for free, as we should.
Post by: Special T on April 05, 2012, 11:48:27 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 06, 2012, 08:23:39 AM
I think user fees are fine too, they just need to set it up differently so that the people using the parks are paying for the parks, and the people using DNR "DEVELOPED RECREATIONAL AREAS" are paying for them.
We as hunters, in general, do not use DNR's developed sites. If I did, that would be fine and I wouldn't mind paying a fee for that use. But I don't.
Remember, the "developed recreation areas" are no more. The Discover Pass is now going to be required on all DNR lands. Bigger impact to hunters
Post by: bobcat on April 06, 2012, 09:33:45 AM
I think user fees are fine too, they just need to set it up differently so that the people using the parks are paying for the parks, and the people using DNR "DEVELOPED RECREATIONAL AREAS" are paying for them.
We as hunters, in general, do not use DNR's developed sites. If I did, that would be fine and I wouldn't mind paying a fee for that use. But I don't.
Remember, the "developed recreation areas" are no more. The Discover Pass is now going to be required on all DNR lands. Bigger impact to hunters
I know that, and I'm not happy at all about that change. That's where the title of this thread came from: "New Discover Pass law is WORSE for Hunters."
Post by: bobcat on April 06, 2012, 09:35:42 AM
The DP ISN'T about simplifying the numbers of passes. Its about making 1 user group pay for another's bill! By saying i'd buy one IF... just confuses the reasoning. There is 1 reason to buy the current pass. Support state parks. :twocents:
No, there's another reason, and that is if you want to hunt on DNR land, without taking a chance on receiving a $99 or $200 ticket.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm sure a lot of hunters are being forced into buying it if they don't want to give up hunting the areas they're already familiar with.
Post by: MADMAX on April 06, 2012, 09:45:15 AM
Its a matter of simple logistics
99 dollar ticket or day in court vs 30 bucks for a pass
I bought one for me and one for the wife so she could do her beachcombing
Post by: Special T on April 06, 2012, 10:24:37 AM
Post by: seansfire on April 06, 2012, 10:33:20 AM
perhaps a couple years of alot of people refusing to buy theses extra passes will get them to figure it out.
Post by: JohnVH on April 06, 2012, 10:46:45 AM
. The state hasn't even balanced the budget in the last 2 years! :pee:
I doubt they ever have, they clearly dont stay within it
Post by: Hunting7mm on April 06, 2012, 09:21:14 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 07, 2012, 06:53:18 AM
. The state hasn't even balanced the budget in the last 2 years! :pee:
I doubt they ever have, they clearly dont stay within it
And the majority party in Oly is MORE interested in BS social issues to even give the budget a serious thought in 3, 4, will it soon be 5 special sessions and a regular session a chance to be worked out. Maybe they should be charged immensely for using their offices.
Post by: fireweed on April 07, 2012, 10:13:27 AM
How do they justify expanding the DP to all DNR land?? They call it "simplifying". :yike: Talk about spin-doctoring!
We all need to contact anyone who voted for these changes, AND the WDFW who didn't stand firm for hunters who already pay, pay, pay. Just bought my license yesterday about $200 for both combo hunt and fish-- thats before DP, before NW forest pass, before all the WDFW extras. All that goes to the state for me to hunt in this state: the DP to hunt on undeveloped land NEEDS TO GO!
Post by: Hunting7mm on April 07, 2012, 10:25:51 AM
Check out the DNR recreatio newsletter http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/amp_rec_newsletter_031512.pdfI think we all agree with you and wish it was that easy but common sense no longer exists in this state!!!!!!!!
How do they justify expanding the DP to all DNR land?? They call it "simplifying". :yike: Talk about spin-doctoring!
We all need to contact anyone who voted for these changes, AND the WDFW who didn't stand firm for hunters who already pay, pay, pay. Just bought my license yesterday about $200 for both combo hunt and fish-- thats before DP, before NW forest pass, before all the WDFW extras. All that goes to the state for me to hunt in this state: the DP to hunt on undeveloped land NEEDS TO GO!
Post by: follow maggie on April 07, 2012, 08:55:18 PM
Post by: Greg30-06 on April 07, 2012, 11:13:17 PM
Post by: Salmo on April 08, 2012, 06:06:46 AM
Post by: JJD on April 15, 2012, 07:45:35 PM
It’s all about the $$. When times are tough, we have to tighten our belts. The state depts.? Norfolk N’ Way!!!! They just find a new tax or fee to make up the difference. Doing with less is not in the realm of possibility.
They squander most of what they get anyway. Like fake guns for hunter ed classes, what a freakin waste. Don’t care what tax supplied the dollars, it’s still an unwarranted waste.
We are like the frog in the pot of water, if you turn up the heat slowly you can cook it to death before it even knows it’s happened. We as tax payers are in the same pot of water and our legislator have a firm grip on the heat control. Probably gonna happen anyway, WA is just a northern division of Calif. If I was 20 yrs younger, I'd get out of this forsaken state.
Post by: The Weazle on April 15, 2012, 09:36:24 PM
We as tax payers are in the same pot of water and our legislator have a firm grip on the heat control. Probably gonna happen anyway, WA is just a northern division of Calif. If I was 20 yrs younger, I'd get out of this forsaken state.
JJD, Have you ever lived in California? or any other state?
I have, and I can tell you that its few and far between that elk and deer tags are OTC, and are this cheap...unless you live East of the Mississippi river, Washington is one of the cheapest states to hunt in. Do I like the discover pass?, no, but it is still optional!