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Author Topic: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”  (Read 208971 times)

Offline Special T

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #585 on: May 01, 2017, 10:21:44 AM »
"Nevada Republican Sen. Dean Heller wants to rewrite the Endangered Species Act to ban any new listings without specific approval from Congress and the governors of states where the fish or wildlife live.

The measure he and Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky reintroduced in the Senate this week also would automatically remove a species from the protected list after five years unless Congress voted to keep it there. In cases where a listed species is found only in one state, that governor would be in charge of implementing any protections."

How is this a good thing?
It's a good thing because the beurocracy  is in control. Part of this is because Congress has delegated too much authority, and part of this is because  agencies have adjendas that don't line up with the citizenry. This is an attempt to reign in some control.

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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #586 on: May 01, 2017, 10:25:11 AM »
To give the control to politicians is the advantage?  That sounds like the exact wrong thing to do if we actually care whether or not a species/population recovers. 


Offline Special T

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #587 on: May 01, 2017, 11:14:42 AM »
If we look at the discussion of several species you will find that once on the ESA it is near impossible to get them off. When actually done because they are not in danger of disappearing control measures  are fought at every step. If Congress takes action. Then there are not as many legal issues.  Cornmerants, sea lions, and wolves have zero possibility of disappearing. They have recovered and are in need of management that the beurocracy apparently cannot provide.

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Offline Curly

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #588 on: May 01, 2017, 11:18:25 AM »
If that would help get the stupid pocket gopher off of the list, then I'm all for the proposal.  (I don't know what effect it would have on the pocket gopher).  They're damn moles anyway.
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Offline Special T

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #589 on: May 01, 2017, 11:28:29 AM »
Many people forget our history. Why Congress should not lend it's authority to the beurocracy,  and why our constitution and bill of rights discouraged it.

In large part it is in responce to the English Beurocracy  interpreting the Kings law, and in order to seek relief you had to petition the king.

Having Congress reaffirm their believe that a species should be protected every 5 years isn't a bad thing. I think it makes people prove a better case to infringe upon personal property rights. Like the spotted owl issue or the gophers.

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Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #590 on: May 18, 2017, 07:57:38 AM »
To give the control to politicians is the advantage?  That sounds like the exact wrong thing to do if we actually care whether or not a species/population recovers.

The ESA isn't being used for species/population recovery,  it is used as a tool to take private property rights away, shut down jobs, and close public lands.

The ESA needs a law like this one, either that or gutted entirely.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #591 on: May 18, 2017, 02:45:29 PM »
To give the control to politicians is the advantage?  That sounds like the exact wrong thing to do if we actually care whether or not a species/population recovers.

The ESA isn't being used for species/population recovery,  it is used as a tool to take private property rights away, shut down jobs, and close public lands.

The ESA needs a law like this one, either that or gutted entirely.

The ESA is absolutely being used to recover populations (eagles, peregrine falcon....) .  It's also being misused by the environmentalists, but that can be fixed without screwing the ESA and what it stands for.  If you actually care about wildlife species, you would recognize the value of the ESA despite its shortcomings. 

Offline bigtex

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #592 on: May 18, 2017, 03:06:50 PM »
"Nevada Republican Sen. Dean Heller wants to rewrite the Endangered Species Act to ban any new listings without specific approval from Congress and the governors of states where the fish or wildlife live.

The measure he and Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky reintroduced in the Senate this week also would automatically remove a species from the protected list after five years unless Congress voted to keep it there. In cases where a listed species is found only in one state, that governor would be in charge of implementing any protections."

How is this a good thing?
It's not. Last time I checked Congressmen aren't biologists.

Hey how about we have the WA Legislature set our hunting and fishing seasons, I'm sure that wont hunters or fisherman at all!  :bash:

Offline bigtex

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #593 on: May 18, 2017, 03:17:59 PM »
If that would help get the stupid pocket gopher off of the list, then I'm all for the proposal.  (I don't know what effect it would have on the pocket gopher).  They're damn moles anyway.
Even if they're removed under the ESA they still have the highest level of protection under state law.

Offline Curly

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #594 on: May 18, 2017, 03:50:03 PM »
If that would help get the stupid pocket gopher off of the list, then I'm all for the proposal.  (I don't know what effect it would have on the pocket gopher).  They're damn moles anyway.
Even if they're removed under the ESA they still have the highest level of protection under state law.

Yes, but if they were removed from Federal protection would it not be easier to convince the State to lessen the protection?  :dunno:  (BTW- did I mention that I hate the damned moles?)
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Offline bigtex

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #595 on: May 18, 2017, 04:10:16 PM »
If that would help get the stupid pocket gopher off of the list, then I'm all for the proposal.  (I don't know what effect it would have on the pocket gopher).  They're damn moles anyway.
Even if they're removed under the ESA they still have the highest level of protection under state law.
Yes, but if they were removed from Federal protection would it not be easier to convince the State to lessen the protection?  :dunno:  (BTW- did I mention that I hate the damned moles?)
In order for the state to lessen their protection the rebound would have to be extremely significant. There are several species which are protected at the highest level under state law but aren't protected by the ESA federally.

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #596 on: May 18, 2017, 04:16:34 PM »
To give the control to politicians is the advantage?  That sounds like the exact wrong thing to do if we actually care whether or not a species/population recovers.

The ESA isn't being used for species/population recovery,  it is used as a tool to take private property rights away, shut down jobs, and close public lands.

The ESA needs a law like this one, either that or gutted entirely.

The ESA is absolutely being used to recover populations (eagles, peregrine falcon....) .  It's also being misused by the environmentalists, but that can be fixed without screwing the ESA and what it stands for.  If you actually care about wildlife species, you would recognize the value of the ESA despite its shortcomings.

“A law intended to conserve species and habitat has brought about the recovery of only a fraction—less than 2%–of the approximately 2,100 species listed as endangered or threatened since 1973.

Meanwhile, the law has endangered the economic health of many communities—which creating a cottage industry of litigation that does more to enrich environmental activist groups than benefit the environment.

“One reason the Endangered Species Act has spun out of control is that the federal agencies that decide whether to list a species—the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service—no longer based decisions on what the law calls for: data. Instead they invent squishy standards like ‘best professional judgment.”

http://blog.heartland.org/2014/03/the-green-scam-of-endangered-species/


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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #597 on: May 19, 2017, 06:25:47 AM »
What do you suppose "best professional judgement" would be based on??  DATA.  It's really clear that you have absolutely no actual experience with anything ESA, other than reading and adhering to blogs and websites that spin the story. 

If you want to learn a little about it get involved in a more meaningful way.

Offline Special T

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #598 on: May 19, 2017, 10:08:42 AM »
The ESA has a horrible track record for "saving" species something like 3% of those listed.

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Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #599 on: May 19, 2017, 10:39:35 AM »
What do you suppose "best professional judgement" would be based on??  DATA.  It's really clear that you have absolutely no actual experience with anything ESA, other than reading and adhering to blogs and websites that spin the story. 

If you want to learn a little about it get involved in a more meaningful way.

Look at the illegal wolf introduction as an example of the ESA, look at the fraud and corruption which is still going on in every state wolves are released in. State after state doing their own studies of the same study done time and time again, as if wolves change when they are hauled across state lines.

What's clear is you are defending a corrupt system, or did you forget the title to this thread?


 


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