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Author Topic: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594  (Read 42935 times)

Offline woodswalker

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 10:03:31 AM »
The limited LE is much like the secretary in the PD is in LE....its mostly a legal definition...we are part of the Enforcement division...therefore.  I dont like it and the roundabouts we will have to do.

Waiting for this insidious law to be overturned.

Pianoman, It will be posted today.

Ghosthunter, we use both the inert guns AND live firearms...  Live is on the range, field course and handling are the inert ones.

yes I'm an instructor...since 1996.
A Smith & Wesson Beats Four Aces.

Whatta ya mean I can't have one of each?

what we have here is...Washington Department of NO Fish and WATCHABLE Wildlife.
 
WDFW is going farther and farther backwards....we need FISH AND GAME back!

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2014, 10:20:47 AM »
The limited LE is much like the secretary in the PD is in LE....its mostly a legal definition...we are part of the Enforcement division...therefore.  I dont like it and the roundabouts we will have to do.

Waiting for this insidious law to be overturned.

Pianoman, It will be posted today.

Ghosthunter, we use both the inert guns AND live firearms...  Live is on the range, field course and handling are the inert ones.

yes I'm an instructor...since 1996.

Thanks, and thanks (also to Bob33 and others) for volunteering for such an important part continuing our heritage. 


That said, I understand how limited grants of authority and the I-594 exemption operates. 

What I don't understand is whether this is new policy solely necessitated by the overbroad, ill-conceived, and problematic wording of I-594 concerning "transfers." 

Has it ever been stated before that HEP Instructors enjoy limited LE exemption/authority FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE as a volunteer for "WDFW and acting within the scope of their [WDFW's] authority for purposes of the Hunter Education Program."?

Offline Bob33

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2014, 10:34:18 AM »
Did you receive that by mail, Bob? It's not on the instructor's website.
Yes, I did. If you didn't get it, they may not have a valid email address for you. It is on the Instructor website now.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2014, 10:37:29 AM »
The limited LE is much like the secretary in the PD is in LE....its mostly a legal definition...we are part of the Enforcement division...therefore.  I dont like it and the roundabouts we will have to do.

Waiting for this insidious law to be overturned.

Pianoman, It will be posted today.

Ghosthunter, we use both the inert guns AND live firearms...  Live is on the range, field course and handling are the inert ones.

yes I'm an instructor...since 1996.

Thanks, and thanks (also to Bob33 and others) for volunteering for such an important part continuing our heritage. 


That said, I understand how limited grants of authority and the I-594 exemption operates. 

What I don't understand is whether this is new policy solely necessitated by the overbroad, ill-conceived, and problematic wording of I-594 concerning "transfers." 

Has it ever been stated before that HEP Instructors enjoy limited LE exemption/authority FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE as a volunteer for "WDFW and acting within the scope of their [WDFW's] authority for purposes of the Hunter Education Program."?
This probably doesn't answer the question but it may help.

 My sense is that the attorneys used this approach to avoid 594 complications, and this issue has never been explored fully.

Instructors Are Volunteer WDFW Employees
Policy: A WDFW certified Hunter Education Instructor is a volunteer employee of the Hunter Education Division of the WDFW Enforcement Program.
A volunteer employee acts as an official representative of WDFW and the State of Washington and is required and trusted to work within the law. Instructors are expected to maintain the dignity and integrity of WDFW with the public during Hunter Education classes.

A volunteer is a person or group of persons, other than an emergency services worker as described in chapter 38.52 RCW, who, of his or her own free choice, performs any authorized duties for WDFW. A volunteer receives no wages, is registered with WDFW Volunteer Services and is authorized as a volunteer by WDFW for the purpose of engaging in volunteer service. A volunteer may be granted reimbursement for actual expenses necessarily incurred in performing his or her authorized duties. Members of advisory boards or groups established by WDFW are considered volunteers if they are not paid wages by the advisory board or group for their participation. See WDFW Policy 4018-Utilizing Volunteers in the appendix.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2014, 10:41:45 AM »
Thanks, Bob33.  I think that answers my question.  It is not so much a paradigm shift as a necessary slight nudge in direction, using the most convenient tools available. Although it still does somewhat render the specific I-594 exemptions superfluous. 

Good for your guys!

Offline Hi-Liter

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2014, 11:11:12 AM »
This law is so vague I can't believe that it will become law.

A transfer of a firearm between an adult student and the instructor violates WA law tomorrow. How are students suppose to handle a firearm properly for training purpose, an air/pellet gun-Really. Its almost a joke because the law is so construed that one class of people are exempt but another class isn't.

 





Offline Bob33

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2014, 11:26:31 AM »
A transfer of a firearm between an adult student and the instructor violates WA law tomorrow. How are students suppose to handle a firearm properly for training purpose, an air/pellet gun-Really.
Did you not read the memo, or do you not agree with their attorneys?

" Transfers of firearms between Hunter Education Instructors and Hunter Education students are also exempt from the background check/transfer requirements of I-594, when the Hunter Education Instructors are in formal volunteer status for WDFW and acting within the scope of their authority for purposes of the Hunter Education Program.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Online bobcat

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2014, 11:29:47 AM »
The only "transfer" that would be illegal would be between an adult student and another student.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2014, 11:38:10 AM »
The only "transfer" that would be illegal would be between an adult student and another student.

So, then passing a firearm between adults to cross an obstacle would be a violation.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline woodswalker

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2014, 11:44:44 AM »
The limited LE is much like the secretary in the PD is in LE....its mostly a legal definition...we are part of the Enforcement division...therefore.  I dont like it and the roundabouts we will have to do.

Waiting for this insidious law to be overturned.

Pianoman, It will be posted today.

Ghosthunter, we use both the inert guns AND live firearms...  Live is on the range, field course and handling are the inert ones.

yes I'm an instructor...since 1996.

Thanks, and thanks (also to Bob33 and others) for volunteering for such an important part continuing our heritage. 


That said, I understand how limited grants of authority and the I-594 exemption operates. 

What I don't understand is whether this is new policy solely necessitated by the overbroad, ill-conceived, and problematic wording of I-594 concerning "transfers." 

Has it ever been stated before that HEP Instructors enjoy limited LE exemption/authority FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE as a volunteer for "WDFW and acting within the scope of their [WDFW's] authority for purposes of the Hunter Education Program."?
This probably doesn't answer the question but it may help.

 My sense is that the attorneys used this approach to avoid 594 complications, and this issue has never been explored fully.

Instructors Are Volunteer WDFW Employees
Policy: A WDFW certified Hunter Education Instructor is a volunteer employee of the Hunter Education Division of the WDFW Enforcement Program.
A volunteer employee acts as an official representative of WDFW and the State of Washington and is required and trusted to work within the law. Instructors are expected to maintain the dignity and integrity of WDFW with the public during Hunter Education classes.

A volunteer is a person or group of persons, other than an emergency services worker as described in chapter 38.52 RCW, who, of his or her own free choice, performs any authorized duties for WDFW. A volunteer receives no wages, is registered with WDFW Volunteer Services and is authorized as a volunteer by WDFW for the purpose of engaging in volunteer service. A volunteer may be granted reimbursement for actual expenses necessarily incurred in performing his or her authorized duties. Members of advisory boards or groups established by WDFW are considered volunteers if they are not paid wages by the advisory board or group for their participation. See WDFW Policy 4018-Utilizing Volunteers in the appendix.

We Volunteer Employees are also afforded the same basic legal protections as paid employees are, as long as we are discharging our duties as an official representative of WDFW.
A Smith & Wesson Beats Four Aces.

Whatta ya mean I can't have one of each?

what we have here is...Washington Department of NO Fish and WATCHABLE Wildlife.
 
WDFW is going farther and farther backwards....we need FISH AND GAME back!

Offline Bob33

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2014, 11:51:32 AM »
The only "transfer" that would be illegal would be between an adult student and another student.

So, then passing a firearm between adults to cross an obstacle would be a violation.
Technically, yes.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Online bobcat

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2014, 11:54:17 AM »

The only "transfer" that would be illegal would be between an adult student and another student.

So, then passing a firearm between adults to cross an obstacle would be a violation.

Maybe so, except "while hunting." That's another exemption. But I suppose if you were just going for a walk in the woods, then a transfer of a firearm in that situation might be illegal.

Don't you feel so much safer now that some of these things are outlawed?

Offline Bob33

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2014, 12:00:16 PM »

The only "transfer" that would be illegal would be between an adult student and another student.

So, then passing a firearm between adults to cross an obstacle would be a violation.

Maybe so, except "while hunting." That's another exemption. But I suppose if you were just going for a walk in the woods, then a transfer of a firearm in that situation might be illegal.

Don't you feel so much safer now that some of these things are outlawed?
He is referring to being in a hunter education course. Students often go through simulated hunt obstacles in pairs, with the idea that one should hand his firearm to the other before crossing a fence, etc.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2014, 12:42:17 PM »
Didn't care? Of course they cared. The goal of the people who pushed this bill is to eventually end private gun ownership in this country. They've completed their first step in WA state. They were purposely vague so as to snare as many people and disqualify them from gun use as possible. This has nothing to do with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Never did. It's like the wolf introduction. It was never about wolves. It's always been about ending hunting.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Guidance for Hunter Education instructors regarding I-594
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2014, 01:17:12 PM »
The only "transfer" that would be illegal would be between an adult student and another student.

So, then passing a firearm between adults to cross an obstacle would be a violation.
Technically, yes.

And that is the sticking point for me.

I already responded to Whipple that as long as it did not interfere with gun handling for all students I would schedule classes.

But if they cannot find a way that every student during fence crossings can hand a firearm to another regardless of age then that might be it for me. It is a friggin bunch of crap that students with unloaded firearms, in a hunter ed class could not be passing guns back and forth because of age.  :puke: :tdown: :pee:

At some point enough is enough for volunteers to tip toe around.

If that happens I will cancel classes and put on my phone machine that I  no longer doing classes because of 594 restrictions call your law makers.
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We are all traveling from Birth to the Packing House. ( Broken Trail)

 


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