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Author Topic: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator  (Read 4136 times)

Offline Sabotloader

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Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« on: February 25, 2015, 06:12:51 PM »
As I had planned I was able to get out to the farm mid-morning to do some shooting using the new Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator Brass muzzleloader bullet.

I really should say when I first heard about this new bullet - even when the new bullet was a copper pistol bullet and I think GregK first posted about the new bullet. I was really not that interested or inclined to think a non expanding solid brass or even copper bullet would hold any interest for me.  UNLESS, I was considering hunting 'dangerous game'.  The 'BULLET' did get more of my attention when I looked on the new Lehigh Web Site and checked out the penetration and wound channel facts that were posted for the pistol bullets. I had/have been shooting regular hollow point pistol bullets in my Sigs - one a 357 sig and the a 40 S&W. I had taken great pains to make sure I was not using a 'Home Defense" type bullet in the pistols that I was carrying in the woods while ML hunting.  I wanted a bullet for yotes, wolves, black bear, and maybe even a cougar we have them all.  The 'XP' was really what I needed.  But, as I gained knowledge about them I thought - maybe a ML bullet of that design just might work.

Cavitation - whom ever mentioned that in one of these threads really opened my eyes - then after reading about 'cavitation' on line and having the bullet in hand looking at the design of the cavities in the nose it started to make sense.  So now I need to apologize to Lehigh Dave who told me the straight scoop in the first place.

Today was the first step in the process of testing and checking for me.  It was just a straight forward shooting day - just shooting paper.  Next I want to do some velocity testing and finally some 'cavitation' testing.

I took two of my 45's to the fame this morning.  A normal Knight DISC Extreme with a slow 1-30 twist and a Knight Super DISC with a faster 1-20 twist.  Both rifles were scoped one with a Bushnell Elite 3x9 and the other with a Leupold Ultimate Slam 3x9.  In addition the Super DISC was set for a near zero at 200 yards for yote and wolf hunting, so it is 3+ inches high @ 100



I set up a target, I ranged from the target back to the pick-up to be 100 yards, and decided to shoot the Super DISC first.  Grouse had already done this so I was pretty confident that shooting the 100 would be just fine with the bullet. The only differences were he was shooting BH with a Harvester sabot and I was shooting T7-2f with a MMP sabot.  In our discussion Grouse said to be sure and shoot some light powder loads as he had not done that.  And as some one else suggested with this bullet it opens up some very good options for soft recoiling loads for those that would like it that way.  The bullet will function as designed down to 800 fps and still provide really good penetration.  So that was included in the test.

I started shooting 120 grains of T7 and using a MMP light tan sabot...

 

I shot four shots with that load then started backing the powder load down to 110, 90, 70, and finally 60 grains of powder.

It wasn't the best day to shoot because of the wind... the wind always blows at the farm but today it seemed really hardy, quartering from right to left across the range.

Here is the target - I felt I did very well up until the last shot of the day, a 60 grain shot with absolutely no recoil but I still managed to pull it away from the group... Also at the end of the shoot when I ranged back to the target from the portable bench it read 92 yards... So I labeled the target that way.



92 yards to the target



I did shoot the second rifle, the DISC Extreme, but the 1-30 twist, but it would not stabilize the bullet.  All 3 shots did tumble.  The solution for that as it has been in the past will probably be a slightly shorter 40x185+/- gr. XP.

Hope this hold some interest for some of you...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 06:25:38 PM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline kerrdog

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 07:02:44 PM »
I bought some Extreme penetrator 250 grain muzzleloader bullets but have yet to take them to the range.  I've been busy practicing with 300 grain Bloodlines  I'm considering using xp's on my upcoming quality elk tag but wanted to check with you.  I'm shooting an ultralight and I wonder if it will stabilize the bullet? The twist is 1/28 I think.  And I'm wondering about the design.  If it will cut through gel like it does, wouldn't that also happen in flight to the air?  Wouldn't you expect velocity to fall off much quicker due to air resistance?  I can imagine it being really loud in flight buzzing from the air it's throwing off?  On the gel blocks they are always really close. 


Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 07:35:17 PM »
I bought some Extreme penetrator 250 grain muzzleloader bullets but have yet to take them to the range.  I've been busy practicing with 300 grain Bloodlines  I'm considering using xp's on my upcoming quality elk tag but wanted to check with you.  I'm shooting an ultralight and I wonder if it will stabilize the bullet? The twist is 1/28 I think.  And I'm wondering about the design.  If it will cut through gel like it does, wouldn't that also happen in flight to the air?  Wouldn't you expect velocity to fall off much quicker due to air resistance?  I can imagine it being really loud in flight buzzing from the air it's throwing off?  On the gel blocks they are always really close.

Shooting the 452x250 grain Penetrator will not be a problem with the 1/28 twist....

I have not shot an animal with one of these bullet but in theory they should work very well.  BUT... and I have not checked they might not be a legal hunting bullet in WA because they are a solid non-expanding bullet.

The design of the tip collects liquid channels it down and then shoots it up and out of the end of the channel creating a high pressure cutting stream of blood.



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Offline kerrdog

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 07:44:24 PM »
It's the channels creating the cutting streams that makes me wonder if the bullet has more air resistance and losses velocity faster than a Blood line.  I'd love to see the velocity comparison at 150 yards to see if it's a actual factor or just in my imagination. 

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2018, 06:59:54 AM »
It's the channels creating the cutting streams that makes me wonder if the bullet has more air resistance and losses velocity faster than a Blood line.  I'd love to see the velocity comparison at 150 yards to see if it's a actual factor or just in my imagination.

To be honest that is something I have not personally tested....  I can not imagine that the nose of the Penetrator would create more resistance than does the big hollow nose of the Bloodline - but then again I am certainly not a bullet expert.

If or when the weather cools off I could certainly set a couple of Chrono's and find out.


Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 09:15:40 AM »
I don’t think there’s anything in the laws that state you have to use an expanding bullet. I think it just says 45 cal or larger except for deer 40 cal or larger.

Offline kerrdog

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 01:22:21 PM »
It's the channels creating the cutting streams that makes me wonder if the bullet has more air resistance and losses velocity faster than a Blood line.  I'd love to see the velocity comparison at 150 yards to see if it's a actual factor or just in my imagination.

To be honest that is something I have not personally tested....  I can not imagine that the nose of the Penetrator would create more resistance than does the big hollow nose of the Bloodline - but then again I am certainly not a bullet expert. If or when the weather cools off I could certainly set a couple of Chrono's and find out.

That would be very interesting!  Of course I've always wondered if the hollow point on the bloodlines slows it down compared to a Barnes with the plastic tip.  After I recovered a barnes bullet from an elk with the blue tip smashed into the tip and zero expansion I became suspect of polymer tip plugging the hollow point and switched to bloodlines. 

Offline Scheindogg

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 01:28:46 PM »
Here you go
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me -Phillipians 4:13

Offline Scheindogg

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2018, 01:29:58 PM »
So 4” barrel, .24 cal minimum. Nothing specific on ammo
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me -Phillipians 4:13

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Test Shooting the new Lehigh 40x200 Xtreme Penetrator
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2018, 01:57:01 PM »
It's the channels creating the cutting streams that makes me wonder if the bullet has more air resistance and losses velocity faster than a Blood line.  I'd love to see the velocity comparison at 150 yards to see if it's a actual factor or just in my imagination.

To be honest that is something I have not personally tested....  I can not imagine that the nose of the Penetrator would create more resistance than does the big hollow nose of the Bloodline - but then again I am certainly not a bullet expert. If or when the weather cools off I could certainly set a couple of Chrono's and find out.

That would be very interesting!  Of course I've always wondered if the hollow point on the bloodlines slows it down compared to a Barnes with the plastic tip.  After I recovered a barnes bullet from an elk with the blue tip smashed into the tip and zero expansion I became suspect of polymer tip plugging the hollow point and switched to bloodlines.

There is not doubt that the big HP of the Lehigh reduces the BC of the bullet.  It is not as dramatic as most think but it certainly has an effect.  In my case I am not concerned about it in the 200-250 yards I might shoot it.  The Terminal Performance is well worth the loose of some BC.

I am not a fan of tipped bullets in the normal hunting situation with a ML - I really prefer the terminal Performance versus high BC.  Many of us rifle hunters coming across from that world really look at BC as a high quality number when shooting center fire rifles.

Barnes makes really good bullets and a lot of people are true believers -and if they work for them GREAT!  I tried to get on the Barnes band wagon many years ago while hunting with a 300 Win Mag.... but in my testing actually observation of results - the Nosler Partitions were really more dependable for me.  Moving from the Nosler to the Lehigh took a bit of doing in my mind.  Actually Nosler helped the move when they stopped making the .458x300 Partitions.

One of Lehigh's original and most successful bullets for 45-70 rifle hunters is the .458x305 CF



Crossing this bullet over to the ML is an option but the problem is the nose petals are so heavy to make them open you need to have the bullet traveling around 1600fps - so from a ML your range is limited.  Lehigh Dave recognized this right away and produced the .458x300CF for the ML.



The petals of this bullet will break at a lower velocity, Dave says 1200fps if I remember correctly - yet I know from personal testing they will open and come off @ 1100fps.

This sheet shows the ballistic results of the 300



Now back to the 250 in this case a hollow point... because I have not shot the Penetrator across a chrono. I would expect the ballistics of the Gold Dot to be very close to the 250 Penetrator.



Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

 


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