SOS !!!

[Tiger1358]

I'm new to archery, just bought my 62" Cabela's Warden 50lbs takedown recurve bow. When i bought it, i asked the outfitter if i can just use arrows with 4" plastic vanes, he said it would be fine if you put an arrow rest. I put a simple plastic arrow rest, the same style they use in Olympics. By watching many videos and listening to others that have been bow hunting before, they all say that I must shoot it with feather fletching, because even with the rest the arrow with plastic vanes will not fly straight. I'm a firearm hunter, and this is my first time buying archery products and don't know a lot about them,  so help me out if you can. If I already have carbon arrows with 4 inch plastic vanes and have a rest on my bow, will I be fine, or I should do something else? Any help will be greatly appreciated !!!

[Little Dave]

Welcome to archery.  Generally, you will get a better result at a pro shop than at the big box stores.  I had a similar experience with my first bow.  I bought my first bow at Cabela's but it didn't fit. It was the biggest size they had, but too small for me.  They just wanted to make the sale.  I didn't know.  A good pro shop will help you get set up for success.

[RadSav]

Once you enter into the realm of traditional archery you have crossed over into archery's twilight zone.  It's an art often used by passionate people caught somewhere between science and supposition.  Somewhere there between the two is an alternate dimension where "tradition" has it's own set of rules.  It lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.  And archers here will defend their traditional opinions even if beaten to death with 1,000 hammers of logic and reason.

It's a pretty cool place to be.  Fun, challenging and immensely rewarding. But, venture far from the traditional path and you will find yourself ridiculed and verbally insulted.  Most not only hate change they actually fear it.  So it is not uncommon for social media and shooting range information to be absolute.  For the true traditionalist there is no grey area. There is their way and there is the traditional way.  And "No", there isn't a lick of difference between the two.

Years ago one of the leading bowhunting magazines published a split two part article between Bill Krenz and Fred Asbell.  It was a Why I prefer feathers/Why I prefer vanes discussion.  Krenz, the man who preferred hunting with vanes and was known to shoot a metal risered recurve, was darn near run out of town.  I do not remember ever seeing him write another article where he shot traditional equipment.  It was pretty clear...among true traditionalists you can not shoot plastic vanes in your recurve!

Asbell was correct in that feathers allow you to shoot right off the shelf getting the arrow as close to the hand as possible.  Greatly increasing the minds ability to shoot with absolute instinctive feel.  The feathers add more to your FOC, remain stiff to the side loads of friction and when dry stabilize an arrow quicker with their natural cupped helical.  But that doesn't necessarily mean you can not shoot vanes well from a recurve bow.  It's just different and not the traditional way.

I myself have never shot a longbow using vaned arrows.  But I have taken a fair number of NW game animals with recurves shooting vanes on aluminum arrows.  Sure my target acquisition was a little slower and my technique changed slightly with the elevated rest.  But it only took a few dozen arrows for my brain to make the adjustment.  And one morning on Long Island after my two traditional friends missed animals in heavy rain with high winds I had a young bull run past me in the big cedars.  Unlike my friends whose fletching was flat against the shafts and doing little to help with flight in the horrible weather conditions my 2020 XX75 flew true and hit it's mark.  The little bull did not leave the cedars until firmly planted on our backs headed for the canoe!

Are vanes the traditional way?  Absolutely not!  Will they work in the field hunting?  You bet they will!  However, I have never had tremendous luck getting 4" vanes to fly true with broadheads out of my stick bows.  As a right handed shooter I always found full left hand helical 5" vanes to give me my best results.



There is a poetry of motion when shooting traditional bows.  A whisper from ghosts of the past as you still hunt the hills of the Nile or Nason Creek only heard when wearing wool and carrying a bow of wood.  You experience a flash of life lived at it's fullest when you watch the flight of a well tuned arrow arc toward the heavens and drive into to earth like the hammer of Thor.  When experienced in the true traditional way you begin to understand why men choose to enter archery's Twilight Zone.  It is without doubt that I profess that one day, if you continue the art of the stick and string, you will want to walk the trails with arrows fletched of barred feathers and cut from wood.  But for now, go ahead and learn the craft with a mixed bag of art and science.  And when it's time to make the change you will feel it in your soul.  That's just the way it is!

[Fl0und3rz]

Excellent read, as always, Radsav.

[RadSav]

Excellent read, as always, Radsav.

Not sure how many will recognize the reference to the first season of Twilight Zone intro since the movie did not use it.  I liked the first season stuff - Rod Serling was a genius.  I'm not only an "Old School" archery nerd, I'm also an old tv show nerd too!  Been waiting for an opportunity to use it in a traditional thread.

[bracer40]

Grew up watching twilight zone. Man, some of those episodes creeped me out!

Great piece of writing Rad!

[WapitiTalk1]

Excellent read, as always, Radsav.

Not sure how many will recognize the reference to the first season of Twilight Zone intro since the movie did not use it.  I liked the first season stuff - Rod Serling was a genius.  I'm not only an "Old School" archery nerd, I'm also an old tv show nerd too!  Been waiting for an opportunity to use it in a traditional thread.

   Very good post and read mister.  Don't they run a TZ marathon around New Year's each year?  Love those old episodes, with Rod narrating with a smoke in his hand 

[Fl0und3rz]

Last I saw, TZ was on Netflix.

[RadSav]

Sorry Tiger1358.  Didn't mean to derail your thread.  Hope you enjoy the traditional bow.  It's hunting days like today you will appreciate shooting vanes in your recurve.  We hit the road in Vancouver at 5 am to head for Mossy Rock to get the wife an elk.  I-5 closed.  One hour later we still had not yet made it to Portland to catch the bridge to SR30 to drive around.  Ended up calling it futile.  Those in the NW have to play the cards we are dealt.  Sometimes, even if you become a true traditionalist, it's nice to have a bow capable of shooting vaned arrows.




If the thread jack got you thinking about TZ...try watching episode #12 on Netflix.  "What you need" - possibly the best tv script ever written!

"You're looking at Mr. Fred Renard, who carries on his shoulder a chip the size of the national debt. This is a sour man, a friendless man, a lonely man, a grasping, compulsive, nervous man. This is a man who has lived thirty-six undistinguished, meaningless, pointless, failure-laden years and who at this moment looks for an escape..."

[Tiger1358]

Sorry Tiger1358.  Didn't mean to derail your thread.  Hope you enjoy the traditional bow.  It's hunting days like today you will appreciate shooting vanes in your recurve.  We hit the road in Vancouver at 5 am to head for Mossy Rock to get the wife an elk.  I-5 closed.  One hour later we still had not yet made it to Portland to catch the bridge to SR30 to drive around.  Ended up calling it futile.  Those in the NW have to play the cards we are dealt.  Sometimes, even if you become a true traditionalist, it's nice to have a bow capable of shooting vaned arrows.




If the thread jack got you thinking about TZ...try watching episode #12 on Netflix.  "What you need" possibly the best tv script ever written!

"You're looking at Mr. Fred Renard, who carries on his shoulder a chip the size of the national debt. This is a sour man, a friendless man, a lonely man, a grasping, compulsive, nervous man. This is a man who has lived thirty-six undistinguished, meaningless, pointless, failure-laden years and who at this moment looks for an escape..."

Thanks for the helpful post man, and hope you guys will get that elk today. Good luck 

[justyhntr]

Tiger , you'll be fine with veins as long as your arrow spine is rite. I have a longbow and recurve that I use a Bear stick on rest and they shoot veins fine. Personally I prefer feathers .

[scotsman]

Hiya, welcome to,the board. Radsave has an interesting answer and touches on the mark. However, equally as important as the fletching is matching the arrow to the bow. Just as you can't shoot a .243 out of a .30 cal rifle you can't successfully shoot the incorrect spine arrow out of a bow. The 'spine' refers to the stiffness of the arrow - you can't see it with the unaided eye but the arrow actually has to bend around the bow's riser when you release the string.

If the arrow is too stiff it will hit the riser and impact to the left of where you are aiming. If the arrow is too weak it will flex around the riser and impact to the right. Combine this with the possibility of hard fletching hitting a shelf or hard rest and the results can be extremely frustrating.

A well tuned traditional bow with matching arrows is a delight to shoot. Just look at what you want to hit and the arrow magically appears there. Unmatched arrows is an exercise in futility.

Unfortunately, as Radsave says in this day of mechanical bows and trigger releases, traditional archery falls into the realm of witchery. Most of the young fellers who work in archery shops only know how to set up compound bows which is a skill, but Not an art. You need to find an old school voodoo archery doctor who can set you up correctly. I know where some of those shady guys lurk.... Shoot me a pm and I might even be able to help you myself.

[Tracker0721]

Scotsman is dead on. When I shot tournament in Texas we had guys who could shoot plastic vanes with literal aspirin at 20 yards accuracy and guys that shot 2 fletch with the same accuracy. The thing that matters is the spine and the release. Traditional archery is the most rewarding archery form till you hit primitive archery, but the reward also becomes harder to achieve. Best idea would be find a traditionalist near you and learn everything from them. Scotsman would be a good guy to start with.

As for your bow and arrow set up, go shoot it. Start 5 yards away. An honest 5. Like 4 steps. Put a tiny thumb tack on the target. Shoot till you feel you understand what good form should be. You'll be able to tell if your arrows are wrong for you when it looks like you shot a shotgun loaded with arrows and they're all in the target at an angle.

Also, the guy at the post falls cabelas strung a recurve backward and gave it to me to shoot. Don't ever trust the big chain employees.

[RadSav]

Start 5 yards away. An honest 5. Like 4 steps. Put a tiny thumb tack on the target. Shoot till you feel you understand what good form should be.

Good tip.  But MAN!!!  You got some long legs

Also, the guy at the post falls cabelas strung a recurve backward and gave it to me to shoot.

That's funny

[Tracker0721]

Radsav, I was in the army. 30" step and size 13 boots means it's just about a science haha! Also, very nice post. Very well said. Never understood these traditional die hards though, the first bear recurve was made what, 80 years ago? This is still an insanely young sport. It's going to change. Now with primitive archery, nobody better be trying to put some neon pink domestic turkey feathers on my ocean spray shafts and layering wenge and bloodwood on my osage riser haha