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Author Topic: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags  (Read 4943 times)

Offline X-Force

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2018, 09:25:22 AM »
The issue we have in this state and many other states is we have effectively cut off our youth from having any real chance of drawing any of these tags in their lifetime. They are so behind the rest of us on points that they will never catch up. These youth cow tags are a unique opportunity for a few kids to have a special hunt for a special animal. If it's truly for preservation of the species then why are we hunting any of them at all right now?  To make the statement that if kids can't go moose hunting they'll quit hunting anyways is a fairly shallow thought. The reason we will lose youth is lack of success at all. This is a very difficult state for youth to be successful in so having some permit opportunities outside of the norm is a great way for a handful of them to find some success afield.

I agree with Karl in as much as this:  If we are going to cut cow tags because moose are below carrying capacity, we should start with cutting tags for adults first.
Unfortunately, working the numbers, it appears that only about 1700 kids put in for 18 youth cow tags.  At least 7,000 adults are putting in for 33 cow tags.  Adults pay $7.10 for an application.  Kids pay $3.80.  That means the state is making just under $50,000 in non-refundable application fees on the adult applications, and only about $6,500 on youth apps.  That's probably why they are talking about cutting youth tags first.  Sad, but probably factual.

Whenever WDFW does something that I think I don't understand, I always ask myself: "How does this affect their revenue stream?"...

...and I usually find my answer pretty quickly  :(

Its not revenue though you make a pretty compelling argument for that being the case. There is no such thing as "adult tags" everyone can put in for antlerless tags. Having more permits for a subgroup of hunters than are available to the general population is unproductive for the entire group. That is what would of happened had WDFW kept the youth permits at the same level. They had to reduce tags somewhere and WDFW chose to reduce youth cow permits to a level inline with other subgroups.

Master Hunter any moose permits went from 10 to 0 and no one is complaining about that?

Youth moose and sheep opportunities are so limited that this reduction will in no way be detrimental to the future of hunting or to an individual child's enjoyment of the woods.

If people want to really change draw odds for the better and to improve hunter/youth recruitment for permit applications do some math and have WDFW employ Idaho's system... or even more strict only one species (deer or elk) and dramatically increase odds.

This is all coming from a guy with 2 girls and who has been buying points for them since they were born.
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2018, 09:32:17 AM »
Increasing the herd means more tags for everyone.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2018, 09:39:52 AM »
Increasing the herd means more tags for everyone.
that's why there shouldn't be any tags.  If it's really that dire of a situation then there needs to be a moratorium for a few years.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2018, 09:47:17 AM »
Increasing the herd means more tags for everyone.
that's why there shouldn't be any tags.  If it's really that dire of a situation then there needs to be a moratorium for a few years.

I don't think it hurts to harvest bulls, unless cows weren't being bred, we aren't at that point with the bulls!
Do the math on taking out 10 cows a year and their reproductive potential over a course of 10 years, I know it isn't all that simple, but they conveys the reasoning for saving cows when a herd needs to grow.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2018, 09:50:13 AM »
The issue we have in this state and many other states is we have effectively cut off our youth from having any real chance of drawing any of these tags in their lifetime. They are so behind the rest of us on points that they will never catch up.

 I would think attrition will help today's kids soon enough, the average age of Washington state hunters has to be increasing yearly.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline hunter399

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2018, 09:57:54 AM »
I guess my problem is why not reduce these tags the past few years ,instead of cutting it completely.I just don't like idea of make as much money as we can,then oops populations in trouble let's cut it type attitude.

I do agree revenue ,selling tags does play a part in management when it should not ,herd health,herd populations should be a concern every year not every three years. :twocents:
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
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Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2018, 10:06:30 AM »
Increasing the herd means more tags for everyone.
that's why there shouldn't be any tags.  If it's really that dire of a situation then there needs to be a moratorium for a few years.

I wonder if they made the change to upfront the tag fee's it used to be that way. It appears that other states require that to put in for the draws they have as well. And some of those are a lot more funds.

But I have been in favor of this since the start.    :tup:

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2018, 10:08:10 AM »
Increasing the herd means more tags for everyone.
that's why there shouldn't be any tags.  If it's really that dire of a situation then there needs to be a moratorium for a few years.

I wonder if they made the change to upfront the tag fee's it used to be that way. It appears that other states require that to put in for the draws they have as well. And some of those are a lot more funds.

I doubt they would do that, the more who apply the more they make! Which explains why we have so many categories to draw for!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2018, 10:09:50 AM »
Sadly I know that!!!  :yeah:

Offline goosehunter12

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2018, 11:20:09 AM »
I Agree, this is not right for our youth, I have know 2 kids that have drawn in the last 5 years and it was the highlight of their fall, told my 11 year old this and he also agreed it isn't right.  Below is the comment I submitted, had to shorten it a bit because you are only allowed 1,000 characters max


As a parent of youth hunters we do not need to loose any opportunities for our youth.  Last summer when the first surveys came out a question on balancing the antlerless tags between all the user groups.  What is currently being proposed is not balanced at all and only hurts our youth hunters.  In 2017 there where the following number of applicants per group, antlerless 8,383, 65 and over 1,478, disabled 863, youth 1,838.  Youth make up almost 15% of the total applicants, more than the 65 and over and disabled groups.  So why was the youth group so drastically reduced to only 1 tag if the intent was balance the tags between all the user groups?  It appears the total antlerless tags was reduced from 58 in 2017 to a proposed number of 42 in 2018 (assuming the 74 tags in one area was a typo and should be 4).  So the youth will only be getting around 2% of the total tags, I feel this should be more balance and they should get at least 15% of the tags or even a few more.



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Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2018, 12:14:49 PM »
I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2018, 12:19:58 PM »
I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?

I count 32 in the regular antlerless category last year. For this year it looks like either 33 or 36, depending on what the actual number is for the one hunt that shows 74 tags, an obvious typo. I assume it should be either 7, or 4.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/wac/220-415-070.pdf

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2018, 12:44:45 PM »
IMHO, not allowing a youth the opportunity to shoot a moose isn't going to discouraged anyone from becoming a life long hunter.  Rarely is the harvest of an animal the reason that kids take to woods in the first place.  The opportunity to hunt a moose, goat or sheep or any other difficult to draw tag, I see as the apex of one's time in the woods. Years of hard work and attrition getting paid off in a hunt of a lifetime. 

Offline benhuntin

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Re: Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2018, 12:56:32 PM »
This youth argument has been on here before. You are either for youth special draws or basically completely against it. As seen again on this thread.


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Offline benhuntin

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Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2018, 01:01:00 PM »
I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?
68 available cow tags last year. Looks to be 40-45 this year.


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