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Poll

Spring bear poll

I have sent emails to wdfw requesting some form of increased spring bear opportunity
47 (97.9%)
I have emailed the department in opposition to increased spring bear hunting
1 (2.1%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Author Topic: Spring bear changes on the table!!!  (Read 11228 times)

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #120 on: September 04, 2019, 08:59:00 AM »
Bango,

You looking for predator control on the east side or are you looking for more personal hunting opportunities?   :chuckle:

Both.  But more predator control is the main one.  I want people killing bears, and half the people that draw dont even come over to try at all.  Locals who draw kill bears.  A lot of west siders that draw never even show up, for a 76 day spring season, they cant be bothered to come hunt a single day the whole time.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 09:07:30 AM by Bango skank »

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #121 on: September 04, 2019, 09:58:48 AM »
Bango,

You looking for predator control on the east side or are you looking for more personal hunting opportunities?   :chuckle:

Everyone I know over here just wants those permits put to a productive end......when they are drawn and go unused it is a wasted opportunity for removing another predator from our burgeoning populations.

Predators are a big problem here and if youre given an opportunity to hunt them and dont, its a missed opportunity.  If enough people came here to hunt predators, and actually made an impact, our ungulate herds might even start to get back to their once glorious state......that they are now only a shadow of.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #122 on: September 04, 2019, 10:05:03 AM »
Bango,

You looking for predator control on the east side or are you looking for more personal hunting opportunities?   :chuckle:

Everyone I know over here just wants those permits put to a productive end......when they are drawn and go unused it is a wasted opportunity for removing another predator from our burgeoning populations.

Predators are a big problem here and if youre given an opportunity to hunt them and dont, its a missed opportunity.  If enough people came here to hunt predators, and actually made an impact, our ungulate herds might even start to get back to their once glorious state......that they are now only a shadow of.

The numbers aren't lining up fellas. 

2018:  Kapowsin had a 51% hunter rate, and Wenaha had a 65% hunter rate.  Wenaha had about 1/4 of the amount of permits that Kapowsin did, so the data is likely a little unfair. 

Overall though the trend isn't showing a significant drop in tag utilization from west --> east.... Technically the opposite.  I looked up several more east side permits and they're really all over ~50% utilization.

So if they add 15 more tags to an area, you should expect another 7-8 hunters out there in the spring. 

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #123 on: September 04, 2019, 10:19:25 AM »
And if they add another 0 permits in the northeast, we can expect another 0 hunters out there in the spring.

Offline WildlifeAssassin

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #124 on: September 04, 2019, 10:32:06 AM »
Less opportunities and more red tape, the worst choice possible. The WDFW has gone full SJW retard. Looking forward to leaving this state.

Offline bobcat

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2019, 10:40:17 AM »
As I've said before, nearly all of western Washington should have some spring permits for every GMU. Even if it were only 5 or 10 in each unit that would add up to a lot, and that would mean more hunting opportunity AND more revenue to the state. Why they won't listen I don't know.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 10:55:36 AM by bobcat »

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #126 on: September 04, 2019, 10:47:01 AM »
As I've said before, nearly all of western Washington should have some spring permits for every GMU. Even if it were only 5 or 10 in each unit that would add up to a lot, and that would more hunting opportunity AND more revenue to the state. Why they won't listen I don't know.

My theory is that this is all politics.  I think the wildlife managers know we need more predator control but they know it's an uphill battle internally to get it approved. 

Shutting down Kapowsin and showing a net reduction in tags is a joke since Hancock hires hound hunters anyways.  Overall the state is getting more tags, which is a win.  If they can take data from these increases to show that there was no real harm done to the overall long term health of the black bear population, they might be able to open up the hunting regs a bit more each year.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2019, 11:16:24 AM »
Bango,

You looking for predator control on the east side or are you looking for more personal hunting opportunities?   :chuckle:

Everyone I know over here just wants those permits put to a productive end......when they are drawn and go unused it is a wasted opportunity for removing another predator from our burgeoning populations.

Predators are a big problem here and if youre given an opportunity to hunt them and dont, its a missed opportunity.  If enough people came here to hunt predators, and actually made an impact, our ungulate herds might even start to get back to their once glorious state......that they are now only a shadow of.

The numbers aren't lining up fellas. 


Overall though the trend isn't showing a significant drop in tag utilization from west --> east.... Technically the opposite.  I looked up several more east side permits and they're really all over ~50% utilization.



B.S., right around 50 % of participation from successful applicants over here.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2019, 11:17:15 AM »
We're saying the same thing  :)

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #129 on: September 04, 2019, 11:23:17 AM »
We're saying the same thing  :)

No, you said east side permits are really all over 50% utilization.  Theyre not.  Not unless youre calling 51-54% "over 50," in which case youre being nitpicky and misleading.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2019, 11:34:56 AM »
We're saying the same thing  :)

No, you said east side permits are really all over 50% utilization.  Theyre not.  Not unless youre calling 51-54% "over 50," in which case youre being nitpicky and misleading.

51-54 is over 50.

That being said, I also mentioned that due to fewer tags, it was really hard to compare the east side areas to Kapowsin because each tag is worth a higher percentage value.  Overall though, it looks like there isn't a significant difference in utilization between east side and west side spring bear tags.  Meaning that someone is just as likely to not use their Kapowsin tag as they are their Huckleberry or Wenaha tag.

My point was to address the concern that those of us who aren't your neighbors are drawing tags and not using them.  While people not using tags is definitely happening, I don't see anywhere or any number that says it's only happening because of folks who don't live near you.

The only numbers I see are this:  Generally, we see about a 50% tag utilization rate in WA for spring bear.  So if they add 15 tags, we should expect to see 7-8 additional hunters. 

In addition to this, I addressed the drop in net tags being issued - we had a 150 tag drop due to Kapowsin.  Who cares?  I live right next door to Kapowsin.  You could issue 500 tags in there - all you're doing is making Hancock richer.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #131 on: September 04, 2019, 11:49:04 AM »
So 50% of west side permits arent used.  Do you think for a second that anybody in the northeast applys for those tags? Get real.  Thats all west siders applying for those.  So even permits closer to home, they dont use them.  And a LOT of west siders draw ne tags.  150 less permits in kapowsin means more west siders drawing northeast tags, meaning more tags going unused.  So yes i care that wdfw reducued available west side permits by 67%. That means more west siders applying and drawing here, which means more of these permits collecting dust.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #132 on: September 04, 2019, 11:55:24 AM »
As I've said before, nearly all of western Washington should have some spring permits for every GMU. Even if it were only 5 or 10 in each unit that would add up to a lot, and that would more hunting opportunity AND more revenue to the state. Why they won't listen I don't know.



Shutting down Kapowsin and showing a net reduction in tags is a joke since Hancock hires hound hunters anyways.  Overall the state is getting more tags, which is a win.  If they can take data from these increases to show that there was no real harm done to the overall long term health of the black bear population, they might be able to open up the hunting regs a bit more each year.

Dude, the state us NOT getting more tags overall!  This is NOT an increase!  They added 39 and removed 150!  Thats a total of 111 LESS spring permits.  What dont you understand there?

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #133 on: September 04, 2019, 12:01:09 PM »
So 50% of west side permits arent used.  Do you think for a second that anybody in the northeast applys for those tags? Get real.  Thats all west siders applying for those.  So even permits closer to home, they dont use them.  And a LOT of west siders draw ne tags.  150 less permits in kapowsin means more west siders drawing northeast tags, meaning more tags going unused.  So yes i care that wdfw reducued available west side permits by 67%. That means more west siders applying and drawing here, which means more of these permits collecting dust.
I think that on average, our average spring bear tag utilization is around 50%.  East side or west side, it doesn't matter.

Also, your is only supported by emotions.  I can tell you're getting heated here, and I don't want to instigate or insult you, but your math doesn't make sense.

You've tried to establish two mathematical rules:  East siders who draw have a higher participation rate, and nobody on the east puts in for west side tags. 

Logically, this would be shown by west side permits having a drastic lower participation rate than east side tags because only west siders are participating in those drawings and they don't hunt as much.  That is clearly not the case. 

At the end of the day, we get about 50% participation after the drawings.  It doesn't matter if you're a lowly west sider or a holy east sider - your odds of participating are about 50%. 


As I've said before, nearly all of western Washington should have some spring permits for every GMU. Even if it were only 5 or 10 in each unit that would add up to a lot, and that would more hunting opportunity AND more revenue to the state. Why they won't listen I don't know.



Shutting down Kapowsin and showing a net reduction in tags is a joke since Hancock hires hound hunters anyways.  Overall the state is getting more tags, which is a win.  If they can take data from these increases to show that there was no real harm done to the overall long term health of the black bear population, they might be able to open up the hunting regs a bit more each year.

Dude, the state us NOT getting more tags overall!  This is NOT an increase!  They added 39 and removed 150!  Thats a total of 111 LESS spring permits.  What dont you understand there?

I don't think you understand how the Kapowsin unit works.  It's a private land hunt and the land owners requested that the spring bear hunts be stopped.  Why issue tags if the land owners aren't going to grant access?  WDFW is increasing public land hunts and not taking a chance that someone will put in for a tag they can't use.

Might be easier to work this out over a phone call or something because overall, I would bet we agree on 99% of this.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Spring bear changes on the table!!!
« Reply #134 on: September 04, 2019, 12:11:26 PM »
You can take that "lowly west sider, holy east sider" crap and shove it.  Thats not my attitude. I dont care if people from seattle or olympia draw these tags, just as long as they actually come try.  I grew up in king county, and I help several people each spring who draw here and are willing to come over.  Ill at least tell people where to go, or when our schedules match up i will take them out myself. A few years ago i put 3 people on their first ever bears over here in one spring season. None of them had ever been over here, but they were all willing to drive over so im down to help.  Its just a simple fact that most west siders that draw these tags dont use them.  Figure basically all west side permits are drawn by west side people, and theres a 50% participation rate.  Now figure a number of east side people draw east side permits, and theres still a 50% rate.  So unless more west siders who draw east tags hunt than west siders that draw west tags, that shows that locals here in fact do utilize their tags more.  Couple years ago i knew 10 people here that drew.  All 10 hunted, 9 filled tags.  We want these tags getting filled, and more people from the west apllying means more tags going unused, thats just all there is to it. 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 12:26:23 PM by Bango skank »

 


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