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Poll

Lion hunting reg poll

I have sent emails to wdfw requesting increased lion hunting opportunity
55 (70.5%)
I have no intention of sending emails, i really dont care
23 (29.5%)

Total Members Voted: 78

Author Topic: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020  (Read 20247 times)

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2019, 05:38:06 AM »
perpetuating fish, wildlife

Failed significantly here and part of it is cougar management

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2019, 12:12:23 PM »
If the "boot hunters" keep going over the harvest guidelines they might propose a barefoot season.  :)

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2019, 12:27:06 PM »
Just about an hour before i got this email i sat down and wrote another letter to wdfw about our need for cougar changes.  I saved it as a draft, so that i can sit on it a while incase i decide to add anything.  The way our harvest guideline system is set up now is seriously flawed.  Its basically going off the concept that you can take X% of the adult lion population out every year without reducing the population (though i feel a big reduction is exactly what is needed.)  The problem with this is that they dont know how many lions we have, so how can they come up with a harvest guideline number to accurately reach that percentage?  This is why we should be using the minimum harvest concept instead.  No top end restriction on harvest numbers.  If harvest falls below a predetermined level for a couple years, use that as an indicator that the population is struggling and adjust seasons accordingly.  I dont see numbers ever getting dangerously low without hound hunting and trapping.  I highly doubt we could ever drop them to unsustainable levels with just boot hunting and calling, even if the season was opened up year round like coyotes.
  If we must stick with this harvest guideline system though, which im sure we will be stuck with, a few basic changes would help at least a little.  Right now our general season runs sept 1st through dec 31st before harvest guideline shutdowns go into effect.  Id like to see the general season open august 1st with bear, and go through at least january 31st, if not the end of february.  Also greatly increased quotas are a no brainer.  Second cougar tags should also be available for those fortunate enough to fill their first tag if they are feeling optimistic enough to buy another. 
  What other ideas do you guys have other than hounds?  Keep in mind the ban on hounds isnt wdfws policy, and it can not be changed at their discretion.  It is state law, from voter initiative.

WDFW should request the legislature to address another hound hunting season, it could be something similar to the 5 year pilot cougar safetey removals we had before that the legislature didn't renew. The legislature has had some changes, the primary legislator who prevented the 5 year cougar safety removal program from being reimplemented is no longer in the legislature!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2019, 06:39:13 PM »
Blow up their inboxes.

Commission@dfw.wa.gov
Wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
Director@dfw.wa.gov

Offline Twispriver

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2019, 07:44:20 PM »
Change the classification of cougar to furbearer and game animal like bobcat. Legal to shoot or trap - limit two per license year.

Offline Windwalker

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2019, 09:09:44 PM »
-Might have better visibility on  'Outdoor Advocacy & Agencies' - just say'n.

Some copy-&-paste action from Idaho Regs.

Aug. 1 - Dec. 31  Jan. 1 - Apr. 30
Two Cougar during the license year
A second Cougar transport tag/license must be purchased to take a second Cougar.
Unused deer and elk tags may be used to tag a black bear or mountain lion.

Establish a Hound pursuit season
Must have a valid Hound Hunter Permit in possession- Except clients of licensed outfitters are not required to have a hound hunter permit.
No limit on the number of resident hound hunter permits.

Anyone who owns or controls pursuit dogs must purchase a black bear or a mountain lion tag to pursue the respective species. A tag which has been filled is valid for pursuit seasons for that species.

Dogs may be used to pursue black bears or mountain lions during a dog training season open for black bear or mountain lion. Pursuit is allowed regardless of whether a black bear or mountain lion already has been harvested. During a dog training season, black bears or mountain lions may be pursued and treed, but may not be captured, killed, or possessed.

Hound hunting pursuit not allowed in Units during Deer & Elk season or to take or pursue any other big game species.
With the exception of the use of one blood-trailing dog controlled by leash during lawful hunting hours and within 72 hours of hitting a big game animal is allowed to track wounded animals and aid in recovery. A hound hunter permit is not required.

***
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
Fish and Wildlife Commission
Wildlife Committee
NOTICE OF SPECIAL MEETING via CONFERENCE CALL

WHEN: Friday, September 6,20199:30 A.M.
Committee Members:Baker, Thorburn, Anderson, Linville
Agenda Topics:Cougar Timeline

*WHERE:This meeting will take place by telephone conference call.
The public may listen to the discussion.
Please contact Commission staff at (360)902-2267 or commission@dfw.wa.gov to obtain call-in information no later than 3p.m. on September 5, 2019.

(See attached )

Fish and Wildlife Commission Regular Meeting Agenda for September 13-14
Note: Friday, September 13

Sun Mountain Lodge
604 Patterson Lake Road
Winthrop, WA 98862
 Room Pasayten B

7 a.m. Agenda topics:

    Consolidating the WAC/Commission Policy on Grazing on our lands
    Update on the Predator/Prey research project
    Landowner Hunting Permit program update
    Blood tracking dogs discussion
    Cougar rule making timeline discussion

    Staff and Committee member discussion of emerging issues
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 05:23:27 PM by Windwalker »
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." -- Tom Paine
The hour is fast approaching, on which the Honor, Success and safety of our bleeding Country depends

Offline wheels

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2019, 01:02:29 PM »
through my 2 cents in

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2019, 02:49:46 PM »
Its pretty sad to see on this poll so far 1/3 of respondents chose "i dont care."
  Our deer, elk and moose numbers are getting worse all the time, and lions are a major part of the problem.  The way things are going, i predict that it wont be too much longer before we lose otc mule deer and otc late rifle whitetail.  You think a decent elk tag is hard to draw now?  Just wait until permit numbers are reduced further.  I hope you guys like our draw system, because eventually it will be the only way to ever get a decent deer or elk hunt.  And when everybody has to apply just to do a buck mule deer hunt of any kind, or to rifle hunt whitetail in november, the point creep is going to be ridiculous.
  But hey, you dont care if the next generation gets to hunt, why should you?  Not your problem, right?  By all means, lets continue to let predator populations go unchecked.  Afterall, spending 2 minutes writing an email would cut into your valuable time that would be better spent browsing this forum, or watching a bunch of meatheads in spandex running around a big field with a ball.  Who wants healthy, stable deer and elk populations anyway?

Online bearpaw

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2019, 09:23:22 AM »
Last week a friend out bear hunting heard a lion kill a deer and seconds later saw a huge lion packing a mule deer fawn in it's jaws, unfortunately just before lion season opened!  :bash:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2019, 04:01:31 PM »
open now!


Its time for me to get out calling for bears and cats

Offline kodiak10

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2019, 05:43:13 PM »
I am thinking about what context to frame the need for a change in. Do you all think that the increased conflict with humans in recent years is a compelling argument to frame the need for change in my email? What other points are you all using in your emails to demand that the cougar management practices are improved?

I absolutely believe the season needs to changed to increase harvest, but am struggling to think of compelling fact based arguments to justify it.   

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2019, 05:49:48 PM »
I am thinking about what context to frame the need for a change in. Do you all think that the increased conflict with humans in recent years is a compelling argument to frame the need for change in my email? What other points are you all using in your emails to demand that the cougar management practices are improved?

I absolutely believe the season needs to changed to increase harvest, but am struggling to think of compelling fact based arguments to justify it.

The entire northeast corner has a combined harvest guideline of what, 35 cats?  The state has already killed over 40 cats here this year for depredation.  If thats not indicative of a problem, what is? 

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2019, 05:55:23 PM »
1) conflict is certainly a concern, although I don't know the yearly averages for conflict.   Even during hound seasons way back when, there were still human/lion conflicts.   
    I would want numbers on historic conflict vs later trends before I crafted a letter using this source.   I'm sure its out there and maybe even easy to find I just don't have it right now.

2) decline in ungulates, again it would be nice to have some statistics and some are available but in many areas there isn't any counts on some/all ungulate species. 

3) ineffectiveness of boot hunting and clearly articulating that the only reason boot hunters are having success is due to gross overpopulation of mt lions. 

4) current hunting rule set currently based on a fraudulent study that was highly manipulated by Wielgus.  Cougars had no trouble thriving in WA before Wielgus came along and restricted
     Mt. Lion hunting by implementing the ludicrous quota system.   It didn't need to be implemented then, and doesn't need to be here now.


Offline kodiak10

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2019, 05:55:57 PM »

The entire northeast corner has a combined harvest guideline of what, 35 cats?  The state has already killed over 40 cats here this year for depredation.  If thats not indicative of a problem, what is? 

That's exactly the sort of fact I was looking for. I am not debating the validity of the claim that more cougars need to be harvested, I am just looking for real facts to help make my email more compelling.

Although I am not a resident of NE Wa, the last time I went there I was blown away by all the cat sign I did see. Counted 10 whitetail kills in a weekend, one of which was roughly 200 yds from someone's home. Really eye opening for me.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2019, 05:58:51 PM »

The entire northeast corner has a combined harvest guideline of what, 35 cats?  The state has already killed over 40 cats here this year for depredation.  If thats not indicative of a problem, what is? 

That's exactly the sort of fact I was looking for. I am not debating the validity of the claim that more cougars need to be harvested, I am just looking for real facts to help make my email more compelling.

Although I am not a resident of NE Wa, the last time I went there I was blown away by all the cat sign I did see. Counted 10 whitetail kills in a weekend, one of which was roughly 200 yds from someone's home. Really eye opening for me.

Yes, I wish people would quit winter feeding deer.  Even non-hunters "thinking they're helping out the deer" are only concentrating them for the cats buffet. 

Any winter feeding I could find had lion tracks in or around it.

 


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