collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Taking away quality permits or general season  (Read 5884 times)

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 24091
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2019, 10:29:31 AM »
Here's a great read on what our hunting and fishing licenses actually fund.

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/how-much-of-your-washington-fishing-hunting-license-dollars-actually-goes-to-wdfw/


A strong body makes the mind strong.  As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline idahohuntr

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3166
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2019, 10:31:51 AM »
Nobody is limiting deer hunting. Nobody is wanting reduced or permit Whitetail or blacktail. Itís mule deer that is the problem. Majority of population of people in this state lives either around blacktails or Whitetails. The mule deer herds need managing! Itís unbelievable that this state is a free for all modern firearm , muzzy and archery. We have the least amount of habitat for mule deer of any western state and highest people population of any western state excluding CA. These units need managing not saying it should be giving out 50 permits and making them quality , but managing hunter numbers and getting accurate harvest numbers . Some of the these units could be done like ID where itís unlimited permit . You have to apply there and thatís the only unit you get to hunt. If you could save 25 bucks in a given unit ever year over a few years the unit would start to look better .
Completely agree.

There are areas in the state where mule deer buck escapement is a joke.  I see no reason we could not take at least several areas where hunter harvest is severely limiting escapement and make those permit only buck hunts to stop the slaughter of every muley buck with a 1 inch 3rd point.  WT and BT can stay general season OTC, and units where mule deer bucks are not being limited by hunter harvest...leave it the way it is.  But in many GMU's go permit only for mule deer...it would increase the mule deer hunting experience, not take away from general OTC WT/BT seasons, and it would help spread out hunts/points issues. :twocents:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 24091
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2019, 10:42:26 AM »
When have we seen WDFW manage wildlife with a scalpel, rather than an axe?


A strong body makes the mind strong.  As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline Lapua07

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2017
  • Posts: 96
  • Location: Colville
  • Groups: RMEF, MD, NBA WRAW
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2019, 10:53:09 AM »
Thereís a million and one ways to skin this cat. Iím not overly familiar to hunting in most of this state. Having only been hunting away from the NE corner a hand full of times. That being said our deer numbers whitetail and muleys alike have gone to hell in a hand basket. Iíve literally seen more elk than deer this year.. not something to complain about I know. The moose numbers have dropped tremendously as well. I believe Washington has made a pretty good leap in the right direction with the extra days and tags offered for bear hunting. Predator control is a must. Bounty on coyotes will bring revenue even if itís a minimal amount paid back to the public. When we have lions in town regularly over the last several years that should be enough of an eye opener to the problem weíve created for the lack of management. The wolf topic I wonít even attempt to address in this post due to the amount of controversy it brings up between outdoorsmen themselves and political hypocrisy that started the *censored* in the first place. Iíd purpose deer tags are put to at the bare minimum no draw for quality hunts for 5-10 years. Tags are to be sold like wise as elk (east/west). No multi season. No doe permits. Mule deer closed completely in the tri-county area for a minimum 10 years. Once if ever the herd recovers.. drawing only and 4 point minimum. Baiting and dogs brought back for bears and cats. Even if they are permit only. But that just covers an opinion on whatís going on here in the corner.

Offline TriggerMike

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1360
  • Location: Central WA
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2019, 11:19:51 AM »
Another thought I had on this. If we reduce the amount of deer hunters in the field in a given year or couple year time frame we'll also be reducing the amount of cougars,bears and coyotes taken. The vast majority of predators in this state are killed opportunistically by hunters that randomly come across them while hunting deer and elk. Food for thought.

Offline idahohuntr

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3166
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM »
When have we seen WDFW manage wildlife with a scalpel, rather than an axe?
Special permit hunts...where they micro manage permit numbers and categories to an extreme.

But I understand your overall point...WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 10126
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2019, 11:36:52 AM »
Another thought I had on this. If we reduce the amount of deer hunters in the field in a given year or couple year time frame we'll also be reducing the amount of cougars,bears and coyotes taken. The vast majority of predators in this state are killed opportunistically by hunters that randomly come across them while hunting deer and elk. Food for thought.
Great point that I hadn't thought of.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline jmscon

  • Forum Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 1148
  • Location: Seattle
  • RMEF BHA TRCP
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2019, 12:19:50 PM »
Here's a great read on what our hunting and fishing licenses actually fund.

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/how-much-of-your-washington-fishing-hunting-license-dollars-actually-goes-to-wdfw/

Interesting, the numbers are pretty amazing.

One thing that sticks out, pertaining to this conversation, is this:
Quote
Of note, the formula for sharing PR and DJ funds between the states is based in part on how many fishing and hunting licenses that WDFW and other agencies sell,
Thatís a big chunk of the federal money that the state receives. $3 of fed money for every one matched.
My interpretation of the rules are open to interpretation.
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 24091
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM »
Thereís a million and one ways to skin this cat. Iím not overly familiar to hunting in most of this state. Having only been hunting away from the NE corner a hand full of times. That being said our deer numbers whitetail and muleys alike have gone to hell in a hand basket. Iíve literally seen more elk than deer this year.. not something to complain about I know. The moose numbers have dropped tremendously as well. I believe Washington has made a pretty good leap in the right direction with the extra days and tags offered for bear hunting. Predator control is a must. Bounty on coyotes will bring revenue even if itís a minimal amount paid back to the public. When we have lions in town regularly over the last several years that should be enough of an eye opener to the problem weíve created for the lack of management. The wolf topic I wonít even attempt to address in this post due to the amount of controversy it brings up between outdoorsmen themselves and political hypocrisy that started the *censored* in the first place. Iíd purpose deer tags are put to at the bare minimum no draw for quality hunts for 5-10 years. Tags are to be sold like wise as elk (east/west). No multi season. No doe permits. Mule deer closed completely in the tri-county area for a minimum 10 years. Once if ever the herd recovers.. drawing only and 4 point minimum. Baiting and dogs brought back for bears and cats. Even if they are permit only. But that just covers an opinion on whatís going on here in the corner.

I'd be right in line asking for reductions to deer/elk harvests *IF* predators were addressed in a meaningful way, but without that any deer/elk WE don't take is food for predators, poachers and tribes.   


<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:38:23 PM by KFhunter »
A strong body makes the mind strong.  As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline Tbar

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2189
  • Location: Whatcom county
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2019, 12:43:47 PM »
Thereís a million and one ways to skin this cat. Iím not overly familiar to hunting in most of this state. Having only been hunting away from the NE corner a hand full of times. That being said our deer numbers whitetail and muleys alike have gone to hell in a hand basket. Iíve literally seen more elk than deer this year.. not something to complain about I know. The moose numbers have dropped tremendously as well. I believe Washington has made a pretty good leap in the right direction with the extra days and tags offered for bear hunting. Predator control is a must. Bounty on coyotes will bring revenue even if itís a minimal amount paid back to the public. When we have lions in town regularly over the last several years that should be enough of an eye opener to the problem weíve created for the lack of management. The wolf topic I wonít even attempt to address in this post due to the amount of controversy it brings up between outdoorsmen themselves and political hypocrisy that started the *censored* in the first place. Iíd purpose deer tags are put to at the bare minimum no draw for quality hunts for 5-10 years. Tags are to be sold like wise as elk (east/west). No multi season. No doe permits. Mule deer closed completely in the tri-county area for a minimum 10 years. Once if ever the herd recovers.. drawing only and 4 point minimum. Baiting and dogs brought back for bears and cats. Even if they are permit only. But that just covers an opinion on whatís going on here in the corner.

I'd be right in line asking for reductions to deer/elk harvests *IF* predators were addressed in a meaningful way, but without that any deer/elk WE don't take is food for predators, poachers and tribes.   


<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.
I realize you know EVERYTHING that tribes do and where and how we manage but riddle me this.  Why are the only two elk herds growing in this state the ones with the most tribal involvement? Never mind, go ahead with your smart ass comments and divisive rhetoric.....

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 24091
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2019, 12:45:47 PM »
You need to take your victim glasses off, and read what I wrote.

FYI:  the two largest elk herds in WA are the Yakima and MT Saint Helens herds, both those herds are subject to tribal and non-tribal harvest and both herds suffering declines in overall numbers.

I'm happy your tribe is doing a great job managing your small herd of elk and experiencing growth, would that all tribes do as much as yours.  Why aren't you calling in the Yakima's to grow their herd and work with WDFW?

« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 12:54:25 PM by KFhunter »
A strong body makes the mind strong.  As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
~Thomas Jefferson

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 12501
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2019, 12:53:31 PM »
I don't believe we could go to permit only mule deer hunting and not do the same for blacktails and whitetails. All the hunting pressure would just be transferred from mule deer to the other two. Although in many blacktail areas, hunting pressure is controlled by Weyerhaeuser and other timber companies, so you wouldn't need to limit the number of tags issued for those areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See this play out often with fishing. Wdfw closes one group of rivers then everyone moves to the next and fishes it into a closure.

Offline Tbar

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2189
  • Location: Whatcom county
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2019, 01:07:19 PM »
You need to take your victim glasses off, and read what I wrote.

FYI:  the two largest elk herds in WA are the Yakima and MT Saint Helens herds, both those herds are subject to tribal and non-tribal harvest and both herds suffering declines in overall numbers.

I'm happy your tribe is doing a great job managing your small herd of elk and experiencing growth, would that all tribes do as much as yours.  Why aren't you calling in the Yakima's to grow their herd and work with WDFW?
Thanks for the population info, really puts things in perspective to how meaningless my work is.  Victim glasses? KMA, I need to take a break from your site.

Offline idahohuntr

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 3166
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
 
<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.
Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 24091
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Taking away quality permits or general season
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2019, 01:25:02 PM »
You need to take your victim glasses off, and read what I wrote.

FYI:  the two largest elk herds in WA are the Yakima and MT Saint Helens herds, both those herds are subject to tribal and non-tribal harvest and both herds suffering declines in overall numbers.

I'm happy your tribe is doing a great job managing your small herd of elk and experiencing growth, would that all tribes do as much as yours.  Why aren't you calling in the Yakima's to grow their herd and work with WDFW?

Thanks for the population info, really puts things in perspective to how meaningless my work is.  Victim glasses? KMA, I need to take a break from your site.

I've read your ever increasing resentment on this forum for a while now and you're far too ready to eviscerate anyone who dare talk about tribal issues, far too ready to throw out the racist card to anyone dare question a tribe, any tribe. 

Perhaps you do need a break and I'd be happy to provide that for you if needed.  I'll not ban you for your "KMA" comment and instead hope you'd think about it some.   

We're in this together like it or not, most of WA's herds of mule deer/elk are a shared resource.   
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 02:45:41 PM by KFhunter »
A strong body makes the mind strong.  As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
~Thomas Jefferson

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Play Free: Hunting-Washington $100 Monthly Lotto! by cem3434
[Today at 06:33:51 AM]


Which 3-4 season backpacking tent by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 05:34:43 AM]


Wolves kill 16 cattle this year in Fort Klamath area by nwwanderer
[Today at 05:30:25 AM]


Forks Fishing by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 05:29:02 AM]


WTS/WTT 140 Rds. .45 Auto 200 gr. HPís by TVHunts
[Today at 05:28:40 AM]


Do backcountry elk hunts exist in Western Washington? by Skyvalhunter
[Today at 05:28:27 AM]


Grandpa has a Teanaway quality archery tag.. Any pointers? 90 yr old disabled by Pinetar
[Today at 04:50:38 AM]


what goose and duck calls to buy by callturner
[Today at 03:59:51 AM]


WTB entry level compound bow by Parasite
[Today at 01:35:15 AM]


a total bummer by Special T
[Today at 12:56:01 AM]


Hanson Fish Co Winter Group Buy 2020 by Skillet
[Yesterday at 10:32:47 PM]


San Juan Islands PLHO by Mulie87
[Yesterday at 10:29:10 PM]


oct 9th pumice plains hunt by Crunchy
[Yesterday at 09:53:12 PM]


2 Boxes... Winchester Ballistic Silvertip... 270 Win (130 gr) $60 by bornhunter
[Yesterday at 09:45:00 PM]


FS: 9mm / 22lr Ammo by goosehunter12
[Yesterday at 09:39:31 PM]


Bushnell 4-14 for sale New price $140 by Buddyk-9
[Yesterday at 09:32:23 PM]


Mulling it over. Thoughts? by Special T
[Yesterday at 09:32:08 PM]


Is Getting On A Waitlist for a Lower Possible? by highside74
[Yesterday at 09:19:22 PM]


WTS Mossberg 500 20gauge Rifled and Smooth barrels New Unfired in Box $300 by Damnimissed
[Yesterday at 09:16:29 PM]


Sub $100 pellet gun by brokentrail
[Yesterday at 09:07:26 PM]