Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PMQuote from: KFhunter on November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators. In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue. Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation. The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old. Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful. If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything. But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW. Exactly! On my late tag there couldn’t be any more glaring evidence of hunters wiping out 3pt or better bucks. I saw tons of forks, spikes and 2x1’s yet only 2 3pt bucks . Somehow predators ate them all as they must be following the state 3pt min. Something everyone on this forum can do legally is hunt bears and yotes. Bears wreak havoc in June on calves and fawns ! Idaho just released a study in Clearwater and selway where 44-46% of the elk calf mortality was due to bears. Yet I’d be willing to bet 10% of the guys bitching about elk and deer numbers don’t even attempt to hunt bears.
Quote from: KFhunter on November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators. In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue. Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation. The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old. Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful. If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything. But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW.
Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators. In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue. Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.
<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.
Quote from: huntnnw on November 13, 2019, 05:51:48 AMQuote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PMQuote from: KFhunter on November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators. In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue. Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation. The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old. Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful. If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything. But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW. Exactly! On my late tag there couldn’t be any more glaring evidence of hunters wiping out 3pt or better bucks. I saw tons of forks, spikes and 2x1’s yet only 2 3pt bucks . Somehow predators ate them all as they must be following the state 3pt min. Something everyone on this forum can do legally is hunt bears and yotes. Bears wreak havoc in June on calves and fawns ! Idaho just released a study in Clearwater and selway where 44-46% of the elk calf mortality was due to bears. Yet I’d be willing to bet 10% of the guys bitching about elk and deer numbers don’t even attempt to hunt bears.I understand that hunting 3pt or better changes the genetics and we end up with huge forkies and lots of spikes. Not a fan of 3pt or larger. I also understand your and other's desire to make it permit only to better the quality of the hunt, and it would, but it would also reduce the overall amount of hunters. If the state is getting $3.00 of federal monies for every $1.00 of state money spent, there's a big incentive to keep as many people hunting as possible. I just think that if permit hunting replaced a lot of our current OTC hunts we'd see far fewer people buy in, and that matched federal dollars would dry up and it would have a profound effect on the management budget which then prompts more and more reduced services, which means less and less hunters.... it's a snowball effect until there's very little hunting left and zero predator management or any management for that matter for lack of funding.
They just increased the general season for mulies a few years ago, lengthened it by two days and a bunch of bucks got shot in those two extra days the first year as I recall.There is an easy way to lessen the pressure, remove the Monday and Tuesday hunting days after the last weekend if you are in the camp that too many deer are being taken.
Lawmakers have been imposing taxes without the vote of the people since statehood. The advisory voting is just a waste of paper. Carry on
Quote from: KFhunter on November 13, 2019, 08:21:53 AMQuote from: huntnnw on November 13, 2019, 05:51:48 AMQuote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PMQuote from: KFhunter on November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators. In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue. Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation. The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old. Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful. If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything. But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW. Exactly! On my late tag there couldn’t be any more glaring evidence of hunters wiping out 3pt or better bucks. I saw tons of forks, spikes and 2x1’s yet only 2 3pt bucks . Somehow predators ate them all as they must be following the state 3pt min. Something everyone on this forum can do legally is hunt bears and yotes. Bears wreak havoc in June on calves and fawns ! Idaho just released a study in Clearwater and selway where 44-46% of the elk calf mortality was due to bears. Yet I’d be willing to bet 10% of the guys bitching about elk and deer numbers don’t even attempt to hunt bears.I understand that hunting 3pt or better changes the genetics and we end up with huge forkies and lots of spikes. Not a fan of 3pt or larger. I also understand your and other's desire to make it permit only to better the quality of the hunt, and it would, but it would also reduce the overall amount of hunters. If the state is getting $3.00 of federal monies for every $1.00 of state money spent, there's a big incentive to keep as many people hunting as possible. I just think that if permit hunting replaced a lot of our current OTC hunts we'd see far fewer people buy in, and that matched federal dollars would dry up and it would have a profound effect on the management budget which then prompts more and more reduced services, which means less and less hunters.... it's a snowball effect until there's very little hunting left and zero predator management or any management for that matter for lack of funding. So which is it? You stated you are only interested in growing the herds, now you are concerned with federal money and budgets? Do you really think less hunters money is going to negatively effect government greed and funding whatever they feel needs more money? Did you just read your ballet and vote on the any of the advisory issues? “The legislature increased, without a vote of the people, a tax...” “The legislature imposed, without a vote of the people, a tax...” “The legislature expanded, without a vote of the people, a tax...” “The legislature extended, without a vote of the people, a tax...” And you are seriously concerned that less money being misappropriated from hunters is actually going to effect management? Clearly they do whatever they want/need, in order to get the money they need. There is no “management” now, what difference is it really going to make?
Quote from: huntnphool on November 13, 2019, 10:30:55 AMQuote from: KFhunter on November 13, 2019, 08:21:53 AMQuote from: huntnnw on November 13, 2019, 05:51:48 AMQuote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PMQuote from: KFhunter on November 12, 2019, 12:26:27 PM Quote from: idahohuntr on November 12, 2019, 11:22:19 AM<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators. In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot. Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue. Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice. Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation. The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old. Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful. If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything. But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW. Exactly! On my late tag there couldn’t be any more glaring evidence of hunters wiping out 3pt or better bucks. I saw tons of forks, spikes and 2x1’s yet only 2 3pt bucks . Somehow predators ate them all as they must be following the state 3pt min. Something everyone on this forum can do legally is hunt bears and yotes. Bears wreak havoc in June on calves and fawns ! Idaho just released a study in Clearwater and selway where 44-46% of the elk calf mortality was due to bears. Yet I’d be willing to bet 10% of the guys bitching about elk and deer numbers don’t even attempt to hunt bears.I understand that hunting 3pt or better changes the genetics and we end up with huge forkies and lots of spikes. Not a fan of 3pt or larger. I also understand your and other's desire to make it permit only to better the quality of the hunt, and it would, but it would also reduce the overall amount of hunters. If the state is getting $3.00 of federal monies for every $1.00 of state money spent, there's a big incentive to keep as many people hunting as possible. I just think that if permit hunting replaced a lot of our current OTC hunts we'd see far fewer people buy in, and that matched federal dollars would dry up and it would have a profound effect on the management budget which then prompts more and more reduced services, which means less and less hunters.... it's a snowball effect until there's very little hunting left and zero predator management or any management for that matter for lack of funding. So which is it? You stated you are only interested in growing the herds, now you are concerned with federal money and budgets? Do you really think less hunters money is going to negatively effect government greed and funding whatever they feel needs more money? Did you just read your ballet and vote on the any of the advisory issues? “The legislature increased, without a vote of the people, a tax...” “The legislature imposed, without a vote of the people, a tax...” “The legislature expanded, without a vote of the people, a tax...” “The legislature extended, without a vote of the people, a tax...” And you are seriously concerned that less money being misappropriated from hunters is actually going to effect management? Clearly they do whatever they want/need, in order to get the money they need. There is no “management” now, what difference is it really going to make? Exactly...sounds like your issue KF is growing the deer management budget...not the deer herds! Money is not an issue. WDFW could do 3x the job they do now with 1/4 the funding they get if they had their priorities straight. Bottom line - important management changes should not be dictated by revenue needs...thats how wdfw has operated for the last several decades, its what gave us this convoluted mess of a points system, and so many other dumb things.