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Author Topic: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....  (Read 2000 times)

Offline konradcountry

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2020, 09:37:32 AM »
I have hunted deer with an AR15 but I wouldn't use one for bear.   

You are capping yourself on range and the bigger bullets mentioned here (458, 450) have a lot of drop. They also have more wind drift and it normally takes people longer to get accurate with a semi-auto compared to a bolt.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But I would take a $250 Wally World 308 over any AR15 for bear hunting. Compare the ballistic tables for 300 yards to see why.

I've tracked a bear that had a fatal shot and I would rather not do that again. It is amazing how far they can run.

Offline CastleRocker

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2020, 09:48:19 AM »
I'm definitely NOT an expert on AR's, but I've had quite a few of them.  First and foremost, I know for a fact that a 223/556 (with proper bullet placement) will kill every animal that lives on Kodiak Island, and one Caribou that was over on the mainland.  They all fell to a stainless mini-14, not and AR, but I think it should still count.

I've had uppers in 17 Rem, 20 Practical, 223/556, 22-250, 6mm AR, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 DTI, and all three WSSM's.  The 22-250 is a complete rifle, as Olympic made an AR-15 lower with a longer mag well to accommodate that round.  Still my favorite, even though I only could afford one magazine. 

Always wanted to try a 450 Bushmaster, just because ammo is most readily available among the three big bores.  I just never could find an actual "need" for one.  I think it would be an excellent boat gun...not that your friend would have it on a boat. 
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Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2020, 09:48:54 AM »
I have hunted deer with an AR15 but I wouldn't use one for bear.   

You are capping yourself on range and the bigger bullets mentioned here (458, 450) have a lot of drop. They also have more wind drift and it normally takes people longer to get accurate with a semi-auto compared to a bolt.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But I would take a $250 Wally World 308 over any AR15 for bear hunting. Compare the ballistic tables for 300 yards to see why.

I've tracked a bear that had a fatal shot and I would rather not do that again. It is amazing how far they can run.

I don't think he's hunting bear.

I think he's more concerned about having something he can swing quickly on a charging brown.

Offline jasnt

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2020, 10:02:13 AM »
Pretty tough to beat a shogun with slugs for charging brown bear
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The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
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Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2020, 10:43:18 AM »
My 6.5 Grendel is my favorite gun.

Personally, I wouldn't want ANY of the AR-15 platform rounds against a grizz.  At that point I'd be more concerned about mag volume than caliber (ie. I'd rather have a 30 round mag full of .223 than 5 rounds of the .450/.458/.50). 

I shot a good 250+ black bear with my 6.5 Grendel at probably 150 yards.  Its a really sweet shooting round, would be excellent for deer.  Commercially available.  You might not even want to switch back to the .223. 

Those larger bullets are a little too much like a .30-30 to me.  :twocents:

Offline Skillet

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2020, 11:15:50 AM »
Great discussion guys. 

Pretty tough to beat a shogun with slugs for charging brown bear

I have a 12ga pump gun when I'm just hiking or going to shore in grizzly country outside of deer season.  It holds 5+1, is my primary boat gun, and the one I give to my crew when they go ashore as well.  We also shoot clay pigeons of the back of the boat frequently at the end of trips on our way back into town.  Most useful gun I have.

For calling blacktails in the rut, though, the shots across the muskeg can be a bit longer than I'm comfortable taking with an 18"  barreled shotgun.  Probably 100 yards, 200 absolute max. So a rifle is required.

When calling blacktails in Oct and Nov on Baranof Island, though, there's the coastal browns you gotta deal with.  It doesn't happen every time, but often enough they sneak up on hunters calling.  The blacktail calls we use are a high pitched bleat, sounding like a fawn distress.  Most guys that hunt long enough up here have had an encounter like that.  If the pink salmon runs are poor like they were a few years ago, it gets really bad.

So when I'm in the brush on the edge of muskeg calling blacktail, I want something that can reach 200 yards, a bit more substantial than the 223, and faster shooting than my bolt guns.

After the bears go to bed and I'm beach hunting, it's back to the 223 or my 25-06.
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2020, 11:24:49 AM »
I have hunted deer with an AR15 but I wouldn't use one for bear.   

You are capping yourself on range and the bigger bullets mentioned here (458, 450) have a lot of drop. They also have more wind drift and it normally takes people longer to get accurate with a semi-auto compared to a bolt.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But I would take a $250 Wally World 308 over any AR15 for bear hunting. Compare the ballistic tables for 300 yards to see why.

I've tracked a bear that had a fatal shot and I would rather not do that again. It is amazing how far they can run.

I don't think he's hunting bear.

I think he's more concerned about having something he can swing quickly on a charging brown.

Basically, this.  I'm calling small island blacktails in thick brushy terrain, but might be bringing in an apex predator with a bad attitude. 
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2020, 11:37:36 AM »
My 6.5 Grendel is my favorite gun.

Personally, I wouldn't want ANY of the AR-15 platform rounds against a grizz.  At that point I'd be more concerned about mag volume than caliber (ie. I'd rather have a 30 round mag full of .223 than 5 rounds of the .450/.458/.50). 

I shot a good 250+ black bear with my 6.5 Grendel at probably 150 yards.  Its a really sweet shooting round, would be excellent for deer.  Commercially available.  You might not even want to switch back to the .223. 

Those larger bullets are a little too much like a .30-30 to me.  :twocents:

I'm probably overthinking it. Had a few guys in the know say just get the 6.5 upper for it's all-around capabilities and feel good about having multiple rounds of that for bear defence.
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Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2020, 11:55:17 AM »
My 6.5 Grendel is my favorite gun.

Personally, I wouldn't want ANY of the AR-15 platform rounds against a grizz.  At that point I'd be more concerned about mag volume than caliber (ie. I'd rather have a 30 round mag full of .223 than 5 rounds of the .450/.458/.50). 

I shot a good 250+ black bear with my 6.5 Grendel at probably 150 yards.  Its a really sweet shooting round, would be excellent for deer.  Commercially available.  You might not even want to switch back to the .223. 

Those larger bullets are a little too much like a .30-30 to me.  :twocents:

I'm probably overthinking it. Had a few guys in the know say just get the 6.5 upper for it's all-around capabilities and feel good about having multiple rounds of that for bear defence.


My ONLY beef with the 6.5 is the mags themselves.  Whatever mags you end up buying, you should probably do a mag dump (most of the repurposed .220 30 round mags hold like 25 or something Grendel rounds).  Get some grendel wolf ammo and mag dump with whatever mag you want to use so that you can ensure it wont jam when you need it.  Some of my cheaper grendel mags got a bit sticky when I loaded them past about half way.  I've had pretty good luck with the alexander arms ones.

Also, personally I wouldn't go longer than an 18" barrel.  Its plenty, and more than that becomes a burden.  I'm also increasingly a fan of a super short hand guard with an exposed gas tube.  Really helps keep weight down, those gas tubes are more robust than you think.


Offline konradcountry

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2020, 11:58:31 AM »
Basically, this.  I'm calling small island blacktails in thick brushy terrain, but might be bringing in an apex predator with a bad attitude.

Ok I took "possibility of snacking a blackie" to mean looking for black bear and deer at the same time.

I'd probably just go Blackout. If it is thick terrain I wouldn't spend the extra money on Grendel. You can find much better deals for quality Blackout uppers.

Get the PMAG in 300 and load it up. Each shot at a grizz would have more power than a 44 mag. So no problem.

Offline Skillet

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2020, 12:05:16 PM »
Roger.  I may encounter black bears at some point, but they do not co-exist with brown bears in these islands.  An island is either a black bear or a grizzly island.  Calling blacktails on a black bear islands doesn't give me the heebie jeebies like it does on a grizzly island.  I'd be totally fine with my 25-06 on a black bear island.
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Offline konradcountry

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2020, 12:08:05 PM »
Also, personally I wouldn't go longer than an 18" barrel.  Its plenty, and more than that becomes a burden.  I'm also increasingly a fan of a super short hand guard with an exposed gas tube.  Really helps keep weight down, those gas tubes are more robust than you think.

I'm in the same camp. I think ARs lose their appeal when you load them with too much weight or go past 18".

I like a 16" with a 12" handguard.

Offline konradcountry

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Offline h20hunter

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2020, 12:37:49 PM »
25-06 perfect little pill for sitka deer. In a brownie I want my 460 Mag.

Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Because someone knows everything......an AR exercise....
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2020, 01:26:49 PM »
C'mon Skillet, not you too. Those things are hideous!

 


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