Help me out, comment link added

[Bigshooter]

The secret hand shake club to get to trap and run hounds on timber company is stupid right now.  These guys are killing so many bears and cougars that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers.  I believe this club needs to end and more tags need to be given to the average hunter.  There is no reason why on the west side of the state if you got rid of this secret club that we couldn't have a general season spring hunt.

[Tbar]

The secret hand shake club to get to trap and run hounds on timber company is stupid right now.  These guys are killing so many bears and cougars that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers.  I believe this club needs to end and more tags need to be given to the average hunter.  There is no reason why on the west side of the state if you got rid of this secret club that we couldn't have a general season spring hunt.

The anger and blame towards big timber is misguided at best. We are far more likely to fall in line with California and make it illegal to hunt predators at all than have a general spring season. I  think you would find more alliances and reap more net benefits by working with timber than against. The hounds were taken by the will of the people in this state not timber. The ill will is misplaced IMO.

[KFhunter]

On a side note, my 4th grader had a USFWS biologist do a presentation in her school, the bio said (and my 4th grader is very sure) the bio said "there are too many wolves in Washington" and that they need managed.

It was a presentation about wildlife in general,  but that stood out.

[Humptulips]

Just to be clear, the last thing I want to do is take opportunity away from the hound guys or impact anyone's ability to address damage complaints. I do not think large timberland owners will do anything different then they have been doing.
There are however small timber land owners that cannot get permits for hounds because of the size of their property. They can get bear snare permits but it is expensive and of course they cannot keep the bear.
There is a loophole in the law though in that if bear were a furbearer any bear caught could be retained for personal use even if caught with a Special Trapping Permit.
There are two guys in my area these changes would fit. One ended up hiring the USDA to trap the bears and he paid to have them butchered and donated to ?, not sure where exactly they went but he didn't get to keep them.
The other guy couldn't afford trapping so he lives with problem and I would estimate 1/3 of his trees are bear damaged.

[Skyvalhunter]

I guess my question wold be if bears were classified as furbearers and not game animals what impact would that have. If it is a furbearer then you are no longer required to take as much meat as possible correct?

[Humptulips]

I do not think wastage laws would change for bear because they would still be classified as big game.

[Tbar]

Just to be clear, the last thing I want to do is take opportunity away from the hound guys or impact anyone's ability to address damage complaints. I do not think large timberland owners will do anything different then they have been doing.
There are however small timber land owners that cannot get permits for hounds because of the size of their property. They can get bear snare permits but it is expensive and of course they cannot keep the bear.
There is a loophole in the law though in that if bear were a furbearer any bear caught could be retained for personal use even if caught with a Special Trapping Permit.
There are two guys in my area these changes would fit. One ended up hiring the USDA to trap the bears and he paid to have them butchered and donated to ?, not sure where exactly they went but he didn't get to keep them.
The other guy couldn't afford trapping so he lives with problem and I would estimate 1/3 of his trees are bear damaged.

If this is the case it may be wise to try to get a champion within the RDAN to guide the department to a decision. Without (and sometimes with) guidance I don't see adoption. Also if you target the next policy session there may be some stability restored to the commission.

[Bigshooter]

The secret hand shake club to get to trap and run hounds on timber company is stupid right now.  These guys are killing so many bears and cougars that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers.  I believe this club needs to end and more tags need to be given to the average hunter.  There is no reason why on the west side of the state if you got rid of this secret club that we couldn't have a general season spring hunt.

The anger and blame towards big timber is misguided at best. We are far more likely to fall in line with California and make it illegal to hunt predators at all than have a general spring season. I  think you would find more alliances and reap more net benefits by working with timber than against. The hounds were taken by the will of the people in this state not timber. The ill will is misplaced IMO.

Who's angry at big timber?  I have no ill will towards anyone.  All i'm saying is why should 1 guy get to kill 100's of bear and cougar every year.  All the while the average hunter can't hunt during the spring.  It's a joke. 

[Tbar]

The secret hand shake club to get to trap and run hounds on timber company is stupid right now.  These guys are killing so many bears and cougars that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers.  I believe this club needs to end and more tags need to be given to the average hunter.  There is no reason why on the west side of the state if you got rid of this secret club that we couldn't have a general season spring hunt.

The anger and blame towards big timber is misguided at best. We are far more likely to fall in line with California and make it illegal to hunt predators at all than have a general spring season. I  think you would find more alliances and reap more net benefits by working with timber than against. The hounds were taken by the will of the people in this state not timber. The ill will is misplaced IMO.

Who's angry at big timber?  I have no ill will towards anyone.  All i'm saying is why should 1 guy get to kill 100's of bear and cougar every year.  All the while the average hunter can't hunt during the spring.  It's a joke.

It's not a joke, and the blame goes to the urban population in this state. While currently your reference points are not mutually exclusive one could argue that they could be or maybe more importantly should be. I bolded where the ill will comment came from.

[Bigshooter]

The secret hand shake club to get to trap and run hounds on timber company is stupid right now.  These guys are killing so many bears and cougars that you wouldn't believe me if I told you the numbers.  I believe this club needs to end and more tags need to be given to the average hunter.  There is no reason why on the west side of the state if you got rid of this secret club that we couldn't have a general season spring hunt.

The anger and blame towards big timber is misguided at best. We are far more likely to fall in line with California and make it illegal to hunt predators at all than have a general spring season. I  think you would find more alliances and reap more net benefits by working with timber than against. The hounds were taken by the will of the people in this state not timber. The ill will is misplaced IMO.

Who's angry at big timber?  I have no ill will towards anyone.  All i'm saying is why should 1 guy get to kill 100's of bear and cougar every year.  All the while the average hunter can't hunt during the spring.  It's a joke.

It's not a joke, and the blame goes to the urban population in this state. While currently your reference points are not mutually exclusive one could argue that they could be or maybe more importantly should be. I bolded where the ill will comment came from.

I have zero ill will towards guys that know the hand shake.  I'm not bitter about it at all.  I find it stupid that wdfw is fine with it.

It is a joke.  Nobody should be getting to do what these guys are doing.  You can blame it on whoever you want.  But there are better ways of getting the same result.

[Tbar]

When the two become mutually exclusive and we are on the outside looking in we'll have some satisfaction? The divide was facilitated through vote initiative, not policy. Hopefully this thread unites vs divides. Make comments in favor of broader opportunities because the opposition does not skip a beat. Best of luck getting traction Humptulips, we need the in rows.

[Alan K]

The only "handshake" for a houndsman is being able to pass a WDFW background check, having capable dogs, being ready and willing to jump on a problem animal any day of the week (dropping work), and a track record of removing target animals. 

The way I understand it, the pool of folks able to meet those check boxes is pretty shallow and shrinking every day as they move to Idaho etc.. In many cases folks don't meet the first item. The hounding community doesn't have a good reputation because there were a lot of guys who became outlaws not willing to give it up despite the initiatives ban.

And timber has nothing to do with cougar removals, they don't damage property for timber companies. The cat removals are typically done for smaller property owners who are having livestock killed repeatedly, or for public safety removals.

Depredation removals should not be confused with recreational hunting. They're a fraction of the take, and in no way even scratch population numbers.  The state could sustain a spring bear hunt just fine regardless of any depredation removals.

[Goshawk]

Regarding Depredation hunts and bear snaring, I'm very much against them both.
Land owners have the ability to open their grounds to hunting just as much as anyone else, even limiting the weapon type (archery, shotgun, etc.) for safety if necessary.  Some of our Timber lands are buttoned up drum tight and open to nobody for any form of recreational take.  Then when the animals become a problem, they run crying to the State for special take permits.  Somehow that just seems wrong that my tax dollars are spent to fund this practice when the solution is already there to be used.

[hunter399]

Regarding Depredation hunts and bear snaring, I'm very much against them both.
Land owners have the ability to open their grounds to hunting just as much as anyone else, even limiting the weapon type (archery, shotgun, etc.) for safety if necessary.  Some of our Timber lands are buttoned up drum tight and open to nobody for any form of recreational take.  Then when the animals become a problem, they run crying to the State for special take permits.  Somehow that just seems wrong that my tax dollars are spent to fund this practice when the solution is already there to be used.

Totally agree

[GWP]

It only takes a few to ruin it. I understand the big land owners using a system that they can rely upon and they know works. Not to mention it always seems someone seems to get their nose bent one way or another and either complains or starts trouble. Why go through all that? It works for them as is. They are not in the ‘feel good’ business, and there really is no reason for them to want or need to open up to an unknown element of hunters. While it would be nice of them to spread it out, I would not blame them if they did not.