collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Checking traps without having to go there?  (Read 7228 times)

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 28379
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2021, 10:19:47 AM »
Better yet record it with their knowledge, then they'll give you text book answers that they'll back up.

So much in enforcement is discretion, but when you put an officers discretion on the line they'll avoid telling what they'd do in a given circumstance, but maybe the next officer wouldn't.

Just be prepared for vague answers in grey areas.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Psalm 12:8 The wicked wander freely, and vileness is exalted among men.

Offline Cougartail

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 2190
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2021, 10:31:41 AM »


Now, what I really need is a drone with enough payload that I could snag the trap and fly it back!!!

They make drones that can do it. Lots of skinning to pay for it!
Illegal immigration is the greatest threat to our democracy. Anybody who advocates for it is a terrorist and should be treated as such.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 5840
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2021, 12:30:59 PM »
My opinion, FWIW, is you would be in the clear.  You are checking your trap, not doing anything that would be perceived as affecting the free-ranging wildlife.

When I worked in Wyoming (obviously much different terrain vegetation cover), I ran into one trapper a few times who was an absolute master at building his sets such that he could check them with a spotting scope from his truck without approaching.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline Goshawk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 445
  • Location: Lewis County
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2021, 08:58:50 PM »
I have a meeting with a lawyer that works for WDFW Monday. I will ask.

Any good luck with your meeting? I'm still waiting for the WDFW to give me a thumbs up or down.
You'll never get Bigun's if you keep shooting Littleun's.

Offline Goshawk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 445
  • Location: Lewis County
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2021, 06:25:11 PM »
So the WDFW finally got back to me and the verdict is that trapping is form of hunting, so checking a trap with a drone is illegal. Bummer, but I'm glad I asked rather than get turned into a test case for the WDFW.
You'll never get Bigun's if you keep shooting Littleun's.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 28379
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2021, 10:31:10 PM »
So the WDFW finally got back to me and the verdict is that trapping is form of hunting, so checking a trap with a drone is illegal. Bummer, but I'm glad I asked rather than get turned into a test case for the WDFW.
Lol

BS answer

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Psalm 12:8 The wicked wander freely, and vileness is exalted among men.

Offline Humptulips

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 6535
  • Location: Humptulips
    • Washington State Trappers Association
  • Groups: WSTA, NTA, FTA, OTA, WWC, WFW, NRA
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2021, 01:54:50 AM »
I have a meeting with a lawyer that works for WDFW Monday. I will ask.

Any good luck with your meeting? I'm still waiting for the WDFW to give me a thumbs up or down.
I was given a two week time frame to expect an answer so it sounds like you got an answer before me.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 34542
  • Location: Idaho<->Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2021, 06:20:27 AM »
So the WDFW finally got back to me and the verdict is that trapping is form of hunting, so checking a trap with a drone is illegal. Bummer, but I'm glad I asked rather than get turned into a test case for the WDFW.
Lol

BS answer

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 :yeah:  Yup no doubt
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 28379
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2021, 10:04:04 AM »
Ya, don't settle for a bs answer.


Like I said it's a bit grey, so default is automatically no

 "he wants to use a drone to check traps?? What the heck?  Tell him no"

But it isn't law.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Psalm 12:8 The wicked wander freely, and vileness is exalted among men.

Offline Norman89

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 983
  • Location: Eatonville
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2021, 10:23:56 AM »
Under there own verdict, that tells me that beaver and otter can be "hunted". Which is clearly stated as illegal, they cannot be shot unless they are inside a cage. If shooting an animal in a cage is hunting, I have been hunting all wrong my whole life.

Sounds like someone at wdfw needs to make a public statement to clarify there own words. If the drone is illegal based on using tech to check traps, we may as well assume our cell cameras are not legal ways of checking traps as well.
I'll have a chat with the warden when I see him this weekend about this. He knows I have cameras watching cat traps and we have discussed the need to do so to protect the trap, since he was the one who responded to my call when I had a brand new muskrat float stollen off the lake that he inspected before I set and watched where I set it. He was at the boat launch watching me the whole time now every time he sees me he stops to ask how my season is going I usually see him at least every other weekend while I'm out checking sets

Offline idaho guy

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 2198
  • Location: hayden
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2021, 11:08:39 AM »
Ya, don't settle for a bs answer.


Like I said it's a bit grey, so default is automatically no

 "he wants to use a drone to check traps?? What the heck?  Tell him no"

But it isn't law.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
   

 :yeah: there are completely different rules for hunting and trapping right down to the actual animals you can harvest some can only be trapped some can only be hunted. Thats a lazy and pathetic answer that they did not want to put any thought into, My understanding in Idaho is I need to check my traps on a set time schedule there is NO restriction on how I check a legally set trap

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 34542
  • Location: Idaho<->Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2021, 11:22:02 AM »
Here's my rub, they want traps checked every so often, as long as you check the trap that should take care of that requirement! That seems pretty black and white to me?
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline Norman89

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 983
  • Location: Eatonville
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2021, 10:09:31 AM »
Had a sit down conversation with the warden yesterday and he made some sound agreements and arguments. I read him off most of the comments here on this thread including my own and here is his take. The word drone was added into the regulation after people were caught harrasing wildlife and pushing them off of private property to a place they could be hunted, hence the no drone rule amended to the no private flights same day rule. If you fly in a 747 commercial flight and can spot a group of elk you have better eyes then the warden or myself, therefore commercial flights same day is fine. As far as cameras go it was a point of contention (I was not aware of this) to allow spy cams to be used for scouting or hunting purposes and many at the department were opposed to it thinking it would give a unfair advantage to the hunter. I can see that argument to be honest, yet knowing a given animal is in a given area on a given day is no guarantee you will ever see that animal while out hunting them. So cameras were ok'd. As far as the other dfw voice that came into this saying trapping was hunting I made my argument to him that shooting an animal in a cage is in no way hunting and he agreed to that. I brought about the idea of the world we live in everyday the meaning of words are being changed and as far as his term of hunting goes, he agreed. Trapping is not hunting, hunting is not trapping. There are many reasons to differentiate one from the other, but in the eyes of the department pursuing a animal either with a weapon or a cage is still pursuing the animal, therefore the argument of both are "hunting" is made. The law that pertains to hunting is no drones, and the department has the same standpoint for checking traps because in theory while checking traps with a drone, you could "potentially" drive a animal into the trap. I brought up a time when while out checking beaver traps by boat I spooked a beaver off a tree he was munching on and he beelined for his den that I had guarded with a cage. Door closed and I got that beaver. Was I intentionally driving that animal to the trap with my boat? No, but that is how it happened. He said the same could be done with a drone, especially with water animals. Fair enough I said, but did I break the law by harrasing that beaver with my boat? "No, it was a coincidence. The drone could do the same thing, but we arnt going to outlaw boats" long and the short of it is it is still up to the discretion of the officer at hand wether you were in the wrong to use a drone to check a trap, but it is not a high chance of it going well. He said if the law says no drones, that means no drones. He also said it would be worthwhile to bring it to the attention of the department that this is unfair to trappers, and the law could be changed to exclude trappers from the no drone rule. He also talked a lot about how the majority of game wardens don't seem to encounter many trappers and with less interaction with them, some may not feel the need to be well educated on the subject of trapping and it's rules. He brought this up in point because he had a young trainee with him yesterday that knew nothing of trapping and I got to be the guinea pig and show her my trappers I'd card, where on a purchased license it will say "trapping license", what a beaver and muskrat cage looks like and we also talked on wco work and it's rules and legalities, so I was happy to help educate her and the warden was very thankful I was willing to help do so, since she will be out in Snoqualmie before long and he had not ran into any other trappers while doing her training. Good thing I swung into the boat launches were he was checking some boaters out I guess but I was happy to help. I actually invited them to the trappers rhondevouse this weekend but they will both be working. He surmised our conversation by say he doesn't have a personal problem with checking a trap with drone, as long as the trap is checked. I even brought up the goofy wording of the law with the 24 hour release and he agreed it was worded stupidly and was open ended to get people in trouble. But he also said if you have a camera in front of a trap that shows a time stamp of when a animal was caught there is no way to prove you broke a law by not releasing a trapped animal within the 24 hour release rule, so it's a GOOD idea the have traps set with cameras watching. He knows I have cams watching my cat sets and he agreed it's a good idea. I know some subjects maybe touchy that I got into here, but this was my interaction with a trusted person, and I asked him if he was ok with me speaking here on the huntwa forum about what we spoke of and he said yes. So maybe it is something we should look into persueing for the next rule change is to allow the use of unmanned aircraft to check traps. Until then I'm fine with my cameras and I still check daily anyways because I love being in the woods and being on the water. He did also mention another reason you may get in trouble for a drone is and I did not know this, some wildlife refuges, wetlands areas, national forest and others have a set of rules that do not allow drones to be flown in the area period without a license to do so. I'm looking into that now in my local areas because I see people using drones to record dirt bike,atv and 4 wheelers riding quite often, and I also see a few people out in the mountains flying drones to just video the mountains valleys and rivers for fun. I was not aware these maybe prohibited activities depending on the area you are in.

So there is my  :twocents: on the subject

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 28379
  • Location: NE Corner
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2021, 10:19:01 AM »
Lot's of opinions, but no law. Lots of valid opinions, but opinions aren't law, I'm only interested in law not the validity of opinion.

Which goes back to what I originally said, if a trapper wants to do this then approach it as if you're building defense in a future case.

document document document


In order to settle this question, it'll have to be decided in a court of law.

Question is, do you wanna be that guy?




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Psalm 12:8 The wicked wander freely, and vileness is exalted among men.

Offline Humptulips

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 6535
  • Location: Humptulips
    • Washington State Trappers Association
  • Groups: WSTA, NTA, FTA, OTA, WWC, WFW, NRA
Re: Checking traps without having to go there?
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2021, 10:24:39 AM »
Electronic monitoring of traps like with trail cameras that notify are already confirmed by WDFW to be an acceptable form of trap checking.
The rub with drones is the law makes them illegal as an aid in hunting. Trapping is defined by WA law as a form of hunting.
On the other hand, on restraining traps there is no check time. The law only says you need to remove animals within 24 hours of capture. There is a 72 hour check on drowning sets. My view, not a legal opinion, you need a physical check every 72 hours. What happens in between to tell you if you have made a catch and need to remove an animal does not fall within the check laws so I think a drone would be OK as long as you physically looked at the set every 72 hours.

I have to disagree with your Enforcement friend about the 24 hour rule on removing an animal as being poorly worded. It was carefully worded and supported by WSTA. It makes it hard for them to write a ticket which is good.
Bruce Vandervort

 


* Advertisement

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2021, SimplePortal