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Author Topic: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause  (Read 25917 times)

Offline OltHunter

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #120 on: November 06, 2021, 10:48:50 AM »
Agreed.

A Yellowstone calf elk study in 2008 (Barber-Meyer) collared 151 calves, 98 were killed by predators. 33 by grizz, 21 by black bears, 13 by wolf, 9 coyote, 1 cougar.

54 by bears. I don't think the majority of hunters and for sure the public realize how much bears contirubte to killing fawns and calves.

Will be interesting to see what they publish from their study here and from the other predator prey project going on in the NE part of the state.

One can only assume bears are going to play a significant role in predation and recruitment.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #121 on: November 06, 2021, 11:07:09 AM »
In Idaho Bearpaw had an area that we hunted. It was basically the size of a GMU here, I would guess the size of any one of the 300 series gmus, 328,329,342 in that range.

He hunts cougars there and shoots multiple cats a year. It is open to everyone so other independent hound hunters hunt it as well. I didnít dive into the reporting numbers but there is not a doubt in my mind 10-15 cats get taken each year out of that one small area and every year their are more to be taken.

The cats they are taking are big mature Toms.

In our state the quota is half that and most of the cats taken are by opportunity not targeted. Hunter is deer hunting sees a cat and shoots it. They are immature and dumb. Quota gets filled on immature cats and the big mature toms just get bigger and better at killing deer and elk. Plus they kill more because they need more to eat than the smaller immature cats.

Same thing is true for bears. Immature bears are getting taken by opportunity hunters and the big mature ones just get bigger and better at killing fawns and calves.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #122 on: November 15, 2021, 04:37:34 PM »
In Idaho Bearpaw had an area that we hunted. It was basically the size of a GMU here, I would guess the size of any one of the 300 series gmus, 328,329,342 in that range.

He hunts cougars there and shoots multiple cats a year. It is open to everyone so other independent hound hunters hunt it as well. I didnít dive into the reporting numbers but there is not a doubt in my mind 10-15 cats get taken each year out of that one small area and every year their are more to be taken.

The cats they are taking are big mature Toms.

In our state the quota is half that and most of the cats taken are by opportunity not targeted. Hunter is deer hunting sees a cat and shoots it. They are immature and dumb. Quota gets filled on immature cats and the big mature toms just get bigger and better at killing deer and elk. Plus they kill more because they need more to eat than the smaller immature cats.

Same thing is true for bears. Immature bears are getting taken by opportunity hunters and the big mature ones just get bigger and better at killing fawns and calves.
 

I think you were hunting in 4 and last year 30 cats were taken out of there and I have seen recent years where more than 40 cats have been shot in that unit 

Offline elkchaser54

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #123 on: December 02, 2021, 09:55:30 AM »
Preliminary results from the blue mountain elk calf study were released today.   


125 collared calfs, 2 capture mortality, 7 dropped collars

105 documented deaths. 77 attributed to predators , 26 are unknown possible predator and natural causes.

Cougars 54
Bear 9
Cougar or Bear 4
Coyote 3
Wolf 2
Bobcat 1
Unknown predator 4

Looks like we have a kitty cat problem in the blues.  I am so glad to finally see the data but saddened by how out of control the predators are and especially knowing that hunting cougars is so difficult .  Trying to control their population to help the elk will not be an easy task without dogs. 

Offline BreezyBear

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #124 on: December 02, 2021, 10:29:10 AM »
At the very least, cougar season should begin on August 1st to coincide with bear.   :twocents:

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2021, 10:37:18 AM »
Preliminary results from the blue mountain elk calf study were released today.   


125 collared calfs, 2 capture mortality, 7 dropped collars

105 documented deaths. 77 attributed to predators , 26 are unknown possible predator and natural causes.

Cougars 54
Bear 9
Cougar or Bear 4
Coyote 3
Wolf 2
Bobcat 1
Unknown predator 4

Looks like we have a kitty cat problem in the blues.  I am so glad to finally see the data but saddened by how out of control the predators are and especially knowing that hunting cougars is so difficult .  Trying to control their population to help the elk will not be an easy task without dogs.
Thanks for posting.  Very interesting...I would have guessed bears to be a bigger culprit...as both bears and cougars are at extraordinarily high numbers in the blues.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline meatwhack

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2021, 10:53:44 AM »
That definitely shows an unsustainable fatality rate.

Online Mtnwalker

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #127 on: December 02, 2021, 11:22:40 AM »
Preliminary results from the blue mountain elk calf study were released today.   


125 collared calfs, 2 capture mortality, 7 dropped collars

105 documented deaths. 77 attributed to predators , 26 are unknown possible predator and natural causes.

Cougars 54
Bear 9
Cougar or Bear 4
Coyote 3
Wolf 2
Bobcat 1
Unknown predator 4

Looks like we have a kitty cat problem in the blues.  I am so glad to finally see the data but saddened by how out of control the predators are and especially knowing that hunting cougars is so difficult .  Trying to control their population to help the elk will not be an easy task without dogs.

Is there a viewable document somewhere?

Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2021, 11:24:52 AM »
The problem of course is what to do about it.  Can't hunt them with dogs.  Calling, tracking/still-hunting them is a highly specialized skill that only a handful of people can do effectively (mostly retired guys with a combination of skills, access and time).  An earlier/longer/later season with higher quotas will help a little, but hard to put much of a dent in the population by basically arming bear hunters for incidental kills.   :dunno:
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2021, 11:28:38 AM »
Preliminary results from the blue mountain elk calf study were released today.   


125 collared calfs, 2 capture mortality, 7 dropped collars

105 documented deaths. 77 attributed to predators , 26 are unknown possible predator and natural causes.

Cougars 54
Bear 9
Cougar or Bear 4
Coyote 3
Wolf 2
Bobcat 1
Unknown predator 4

Looks like we have a kitty cat problem in the blues.  I am so glad to finally see the data but saddened by how out of control the predators are and especially knowing that hunting cougars is so difficult .  Trying to control their population to help the elk will not be an easy task without dogs.
:bash: :bash: :bash:
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline meatwhack

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2021, 11:39:15 AM »
The cougar population could be controlled much easier if they were removed from being considered a big game animal so that they could be hunted at night like bobcats and also removing the ridiculous quota they have for them.

Offline NRA4LIFE

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #131 on: December 02, 2021, 11:49:05 AM »
Quote
and also removing the ridiculous quota they have for them.

This.
Look man, some times you just gotta roll the dice

Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #132 on: December 02, 2021, 11:50:58 AM »
Time for some math.  Is it 10 years before the elk are gone?  15?

What I saw elk hunting this year in the Eastern Blues supports this.  Several (like 11 different herds) with most having 0 calves in them.  Only one spike, the rest bigger bulls.

Time for drastic changes to hunting of these elk, along with proper predator management.

No spring bear is another step towards elk extinction in the Blues.
If you aint hunting, you aint livin'

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #133 on: December 02, 2021, 11:54:14 AM »
Move them all to the same category as coyotes. Bear, cat wolf, all of them.  Once their numbers peter out (if they ever do), people will lose interest.

Offline 270Flat

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Re: Blues Elk Substantial Decline and the Root Cause
« Reply #134 on: December 02, 2021, 11:56:08 AM »
Quit hunting Blues 5 years ago. Was sad back then, shame as itís my back yard.
Close elk hunting for 4-6 years.
Open up hound hunting for cats and bear. Over the counter spring bear for 5 years
fear no fish!!

 


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