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Author Topic: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States  (Read 4397 times)

Offline LDennis24

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Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« on: June 15, 2021, 02:22:00 PM »
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lets-rebuild-the-u-s-jaguar-population-mdash-yes-jaguars/

I say do it! I recall my great grandmother telling a story of when she was a little girl and her and her friends were followed home by a huge black puma near Ocala Florida. Obviously a Jaguar, but she said that they made it back ok and a few days later a farm hand was in the field and saw it burst out of the trees after a deer and run back into the thick brush after it saw him in the field. I think she said they ended up hunting it down for safety of the children.

Offline ducks4days

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2021, 02:32:25 PM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

Offline Taco280AI

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2021, 02:48:10 PM »
I'm all for introducing wolves, grizz, cougars, and other predators... in liberal cities. Golden Gate Park could use some. So could Central Park.
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Offline Hilltop123

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2021, 02:52:11 PM »
I see this just causing conflict. Maybe that's the goal.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2021, 03:00:35 PM »
I'm all for introducing wolves, grizz, cougars, and other predators... in liberal cities. Golden Gate Park could use some. So could Central Park.

 :yeah: Truth! Our only hope is an abundance of predators in the liberal cities. They need to live with them. Jaguars would be cool but they(extremists living in liberal cities) have an obsession with creating an abundance of predators. Its always preached in the name of the "balance of nature." we created an imbalance in nature called the north american wildlife model. Where we always had an imbalance(surplus) of animals to hunt every year, creating revenue from tags to fund managment for future surplus animals for future generations. The extremists pushing this know how great it works and putting in too many apex predators breaks the model, just their way of getting rid of hunting. They just need to live with predators in the backyard for a while or they will never stop pushing them on rural west.   

Offline LDennis24

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2021, 03:34:51 PM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2021, 03:48:21 PM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...
I think mostly it would be for Arizona and New Mexico as those states have reasonable amounts of public land.  The other states are comprised mostly of private lands with agriculture.  I'd guess it wouldn't be successful it they try establishing a large breeding population of jaguars in an area broken into 1,500-5,000 acre ranches all running cattle.

Offline LDennis24

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2021, 03:53:56 PM »
I think your correct Hoffa, they would most likely continue moving East from these areas but there is nothing to show that they would populate very easily. But historically they have been found clear to the Atlantic in the U.S.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2021, 04:47:50 PM »
I kind of went off on the predator thing  :chuckle: hits a nerve every time! I do think helping the jaguars recover would be great. I was just agreeing that we actually need a lot of these predators near and around the liberal areas to get some reasonable controls back. Jaguars in those areas mentioned would be great.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2021, 05:06:34 PM »
Lotta hogs for Jaguars to get down south, it is interesting
Psalm 12:8 The wicked wander freely, and vileness is exalted among men.

Offline ducks4days

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2021, 05:13:57 PM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...

Dang dude, if I struck a nerve I apologize.

If they already have established populations in the area why do they need to be reintroduced or else face extermination? If the land cant support the numbers as-is, what would adding more do to help?

[/quote]
What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc.
[/quote]

Can you explain that because the two statements contradict each other. Which states bordering the gulf specifically, because you named 3 of the 5. Why do you expect populations in those areas to have "ZERO problems" establishing when they cant do it on their own? There is no rocky mountains or great desert between them. If the land is capable of sustaining them they would be there already.

If you want jaguars on that landscape, the best thing we can do is improve the habitat and make it a place where the jaguars which currently exist on the landscape can actually survive. Not every animal needs to exist in every place, and trying to force a population into an area which cant support them spells disaster. There is plenty of evidence that the landscape cant support them and neither you or the article have proven that it can.

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2021, 05:44:35 PM »
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lets-rebuild-the-u-s-jaguar-population-mdash-yes-jaguars/

I say do it! I recall my great grandmother telling a story of when she was a little girl and her and her friends were followed home by a huge black puma near Ocala Florida. Obviously a Jaguar, but she said that they made it back ok and a few days later a farm hand was in the field and saw it burst out of the trees after a deer and run back into the thick brush after it saw him in the field. I think she said they ended up hunting it down for safety of the children.

I hate to point this out but it was clearly a mountain lion not a Jaguar. There have been no jaguars in florid for a very very long time. The black “panther” of Florida is just a melanistic mountain lion. Other than that I see no problem with jaguars in the places mentioned. Texas probably has about every other species on the planet running around down there so what’s one more? :dunno:
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2021, 06:56:34 PM »
I would love to see a recovered jaguar population in the SW states.   They should be there.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2021, 07:43:56 PM »
I think melanistic mt lion is a myth.

"Black Panther" just means a black or nearly black cat, but isn't a species.

The only species of cat that can be black is Jaguars and Leopards.

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Offline Dan-o

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2021, 09:46:12 PM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...

I am 100% against it, and here is why:

Specifically, you don't understand the lying dirtbags behind reintroduction.

Remember wolves........ 15o wolves and 15 breeding pairs.

Oh wait....   we meant 300 wolves and 30 breeding pairs.

Oh wait.....   We meant more than that, and will continually sue you for years while delaying delisting.



If wolf introduction taught me anything,  it's that you can count on the reintro folks to lie like nobody's business.



I am not anti-wolf, but I am 100% against these dirtbags.
Member:   Yakstrakgutp (or whatever we are)
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